your approach to recording drums

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foreverain4

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common everyone! lets hear how you approach recording drums. what is your theory? mic placement? mics? pres? do you record everything separately? do you record to tape first, then dump to digital? and yes, i have heard of the search function. :P
 
I plug the drum machine into tracks 1 and 2 .... (just kidding) :p

The "kick, snare & a pair" method has worked okay for me. 4 mics, 4 tracks, no muss, no fuss. Hasn't always worked out the way I'd like :rolleyes: ...but I think my room is the biggest problem.
 
i try to capture the drums as one instrument. i do, however, mic all the toms to get the attack that i desire. plus, i can apply light reverb with out making everything muddy. i use a sennheiser 603 on the bass drum. this already has a nice curve and fat bottom end so i rarely have to touch the eq. given proper placement and a well tuned drum of course. i use sennheiser 602's on the toms. these are very easily placed and isolated given their size and that they clip on to the toms. on the snare i have, in the past, been using an sm57, but i have recently been expirimenting with my audio technica atm33r and my audio technica cb4000. these are condensers and they really capture the tone of my brass piccolo. i usually place these about 1" off the top of the drum right over top of the rim. really brings out that brass ring. i then place akg c1000s's about 1 ft off the drummers head in and X pattern to try and capture what the drummer is hearing. i have been running all these through mackie pres. i am looking to upgrade soon, that is partially the reason for this post.
 
oh yes! and compression anyone? i usually lightly compress during tracking to give myself a little more headroom.
 
First I determine what kind of sound we're going for, then I set the drums up in the apropriate room (small dead-sounding, small live, or large live). Then I try various overhead pairs (usually with 3 or 4 db of compression) until I get the best overall balance of the whole kit. Finally I spot mic to beef up anything that's lacking (sometimes that's only the kick).

Scott
 
you didn't mention scale, so I will skip Ultimate and segway to Practical... how I usually do it:

1) I prefer a dead room for drums, and to post any effects. I hang thick blankets around my kit and staple foam to any walls & ceiling, but allow some decent air space around the kit to keep from choking it off.

2) setup L/R overhead mics, and one mic on the hat and each signficant drum. I use mostly '57s and '58s except kick which needs a decent kick mic (AKG, Audix, whatever). Sometimes I throw a good condenser on the hat vs. the '57 when I want a different response curve.

3) Get snare & kick levels hot and placment where you want, then disable those mics and tweak overhead and hat mic positions until you've minimized bleed from the snare/kick.

4) set levels on remaining kit, fix any placement issues from #2.

5) Tracks setup
1 - kick
2 - snare
3 - toms
4 - cymbals
5 - hat (sometimes when I want isolation)

6) Light and selective use of compression, eq, and verb on selected tracks as appropriate.

- this is not for everyone but works efficiently for me-
 
well...obviously, nothing works "every" time, but here's a few of the setups i've been using lately...

KICK....AKG D-25--->Altec 1567a--->Urei 1176
SNARE....SM57 (or Altec 633a)--->Neve 1272
OH's....Oktava MK-219--->Neve 3415--->JoeMeek SC2.2
ROOM....Coles STC 4038--->Altec 1567a---1176 (or MXR
Dynacomp !)


------------------------------------------------------------------------
KICK....SM57---->Neve 1272--->1176
SNARE....SM57---->Neve 1272
OH...Coles STC 4038---->Altec 1567a
STEREO ROOMS....Altec 633a--->Neve 3415--->Joemeek SC2.2 or Drawmer DL241

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

KICK....AKG D-25---->Avalon VT-737SP
SNARE....Altec 633a--->Telefunken V672--->Drawmer DL-241
OH....Coles 4038---->Altec 1567a

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

KICK.....AKG D-25---->Avalon VT-737SP
KICK MIC #2....Coles 4038 or TLM 193----Presonus MP-20
SNARE.....SM57----->Neve 1272
TOMS.....SM57's----->Neve 3415
OH'S.....RCA 6204's----Altec 1567a
ROOMS...Oktava MK-219's---->Presonus MP-20 w/ burr-browns

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

MONO KIT.....Coles STC 4038 ---->Altec 1567a--->1176

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

KICK....AKG D-25---->Altec 1567a----->Joemeek sc2.2
OH.....Coles STC 4038---->Altec 1567a---->1176

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

LO-FI KIT....(2) Altec 633a's---->Neve 1272's---->(2)Dynacomps

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

anyway, that's some of the "more interesting" combo's i've used lately.......

JET
 
I rent studio time and let them do it. :D

It's cheaper than getting the gear (and room! I live in a 20 sqm shoebox apartment!) to do it myself, especially since we only record once or twice a year. Instead $1500 worth of gear I get quite a bit of studio time. And instead of me paying the whole lump for gear, I can get the whole band to split the $250 for a day in the studio. ;)

*Another useless post brought to you by the Oysterman*
 
1.Set up L/R overheads, usually narrow spacing(sounds more natural to me)

2.Setup the standard SM57 on both the snare and the hat

3.Put a large diaphragm condensor close to the head, close to the rim, on the kick(s)

4.Get the cable somewhat organized

5.Move accoustic panels in to close off the drums and deaden the room

6.Have the drummer play for a while and try and figure out what mic is going to what track(I never pay attention)

7.Set everything up on the computer and hope it doesn't crap up while I record

8.Set up plugins for compression and gating while I mess around with EQ on the board and let the drummer listen to how good it sounds

9.Save
 
For most situations that require a single bass set-up, I found the technique in this thread to be most helpful

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?threadid=39030&highlight=three+mic

Actually, when I first read it I was a little skeptical, but after using this set-up a few times with some minor adjustments I was astounded. Three mics, three tracks and a well-balanced drum sound. I typically use SM57 for the snare, Shure Beta 52 on bass and Octave MC012 for the overhead.
 
Hey Jet phase,


633a....the Salt Shaker??

How does that compare to the 57 as a snare drum mic? And how do you like it as a room mic? Very interesting!


heylow
 
Oops....spose I could add something here!

Kick: D112 or NTK (about a foot away from a closed head for the NTK) using a DBX 163x or 166 just to tame

Snare: 57 to RNC or 163x (really good snr and kik comps)

Toms: 57 on rack, 57 or d112 on floor

O Headz: 4033's usually

Room: Ntk or 414 depending on what's in use and if I can get the 414 from a bud!

I'm getting a pair of M160's in the next couple of weeks I hope will become a standard for overheads and guitars over here!


heylow
 
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggghhhhh!

SWEET LORD WHAT DO I DO!? I'm sick of pulling my hair out over miking 'lil VanHalen's goddamn set! MY drummer has a set that is just killing me. It needs to sound incredible because he is an incredible drummer, but how do I mic double bass, 4 toms, snare, 2 floortoms, highhat, 9 cymbals, and a cowbell/woodblock setup without spending my college fund?! (By the way, I'm only a teenager) I've devoted much money towards my studio (which i set up in a barn that i converted myself). I'm willing to buy a million 57's and a couple beta 52's for bass. I have a couple condensers for overheads. What do i use for floor toms, what do i do just to make it all sound incredible?! Keep in mind we're talking rock/punk/emo/harcore/heavy metal drumming here. Please god help me.
 
heylow said:
Hey Jet phase,


633a....the Salt Shaker??

How does that compare to the 57 as a snare drum mic? And how do you like it as a room mic? Very interesting!


heylow
Click to expand...

heylow,

i learned about the 633a from a producer/artist friend of mine...they have a narrow bandwidth (though not as narrow as say, a green bullet) which is great for getting a funky, trashy snare sound...not as full as a 57, but they can be very cool, when you don't want to stick to the "standard" setup...another great mic for this is the rca bk-5....probably the only ribbon that can really handle high spl's....evidentally, they used to use the 633a's and the bk-5's to record gunshots in munitions testing....

as a room mic (i actually have 2, so i use them in stereo), the fact that they have "reduced bandwidth" actually makes it easy to blend with the kit mics..they not "clutter" up the frequency spectrum, so it makes for less eq'ing....besides, when you place them well, in a good room, and compress the sh*t out of them, it makes for a great lo-fi drum sound, all by themselves... the track i did last night, i used the 2 633a's in the room, with the BLUE baby bottle on the kick....just a great sound......

JET
 
Re: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggghhhhh!

ScienceOne said:
SWEET LORD WHAT DO I DO!? I'm sick of pulling my hair out over miking 'lil VanHalen's goddamn set! MY drummer has a set that is just killing me. It needs to sound incredible because he is an incredible drummer, but how do I mic double bass, 4 toms, snare, 2 floortoms, highhat, 9 cymbals, and a cowbell/woodblock setup without spending my college fund?! (By the way, I'm only a teenager) I've devoted much money towards my studio (which i set up in a barn that i converted myself). I'm willing to buy a million 57's and a couple beta 52's for bass. I have a couple condensers for overheads. What do i use for floor toms, what do i do just to make it all sound incredible?! Keep in mind we're talking rock/punk/emo/harcore/heavy metal drumming here. Please god help me.
Click to expand...

......just shoot the drummer..... :)

generally speaking, less mics=better sound...because of less phase problems, among other things....

remember a drum kit is just that....a kit... a single instrument....you wouldn't mic each string of a guitar and process it seperately, would you?(unless you were looking for a odd/special sound) so why treat a drum kit like that?

i'd start by mic'ing the kicks....the snare....and overheads (you'll probably want to compress the overheads a bit, but it depends on the drummer, the room, the kit, etc....)...and use these mics as 80-85% of your drum sound...if you feel something is lacking, such as the floor tom, mic it, and bring it up slowly in the mix, till it fills out the sound....

another thing that people forget, is that many times, the kick drum mic(s) are out of phase with the overheads, snare and/or tom mics...if they don't sound great without eq, try flipping the phase on them....

and don't tear your hair out too much over drum sounds at first...people will spend hours, and sometimes days, mic'ing a kit, and as soon as you add bass, guitar, and everything else to the mix, the drum sound doesn't work....a snare will sound WAY different soloed than it will with a guitar over it, for instance....like glynn johns says...it's rock and roll....get a decent sound, a good level, and record the damn thing....

JET
 
heylow said:


I'm getting a pair of M160's in the next couple of weeks I hope will become a standard for overheads and guitars over here!


heylow
Click to expand...

the m160's are great mics..cool on electric guitar too....they were the overheads that zeppelin used on songs like "when the levee breaks", etc....

IIRC...

kick....akg d-35---->helios console
oh's....beyer m160's-----> adr compex compressor---->helios

thats it...instant HUGE sound...provided you have an amazing drummer, on a great kit, in a great sounding room :)

JET
 
Jetphase,

You are full of all kinds of interesting info here.

What is the d-35? Is it old? I cant seem to find info on it.


heylow
 
Jetphase said:
the m160's are great mics..cool on electric guitar too....they were the overheads that zeppelin used on songs like "when the levee breaks", etc....
Click to expand...
Hi ya Jet... welcome to this forum... it's quite a bit different from HC!

I like the M160, but I can't imagine it being used for overheads... it doesn't have a lot of extended upper range, sounding considerably "dull or warm" (depending on the application!)
 
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