Yet another thread on compressors

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Fret

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Along with what seems like a fourth of the rest of the readers of this list I am looking for a compressor. I have seen a lot of recommendations for the RNC but how does the Behringer MDX4400 Multicom Pro Quad Compressor/Limiter compare? Four channels of compression would line up nicely with my Delta 66. I have Sonar on the way and I believe it comes with a compressor plug in, would I be better off just using that? I will need a versatile unit to handle subtle and extreme settings. I need to be able to use it on a little of everything, drums, vocals, guitars and basses, mic-ed or line in. I am a little torn as to hardware/software. I like the idea of having knobs to turn but I also like the idea of laying down flat tracks and being able to play with them, as I want to. With compression being what it is it seems like it would be better to compress before recording as opposed to trying to edit something that is already digital. Does that make any sense?

I am still within my 30 return period on the Alesis Nano Compressor I bought (did I just admit that?) and I will be returning it. Any recommendations on a better way to go would be appreciated. Especially if someone can speak on the Behringer. I really like the idea of the four tracks for the drums but...
 
The RNC is the way to go...

There is no comparision to be made with the RNC and the competetors. Why would there be any discussion necessary?

SONAR ships with a compressor and would be functional for post A/D compression. I still find that I like to do at least some compression "on the way in" on vocals and acoustic guitar.

The only reasons I can think of not to get an RNC are:
It needs to be mail ordered
Its ugly (not many lights)

The only reasons to buy any thing else would be:
I need a lot of lights
I need to buy retail
I have too much money

Sorry for the rant, but its one of the few "no brainer" options out there.
 
Ok, then here is the question. I want to record drums. I was planning on using four mics/channels (one on the bass, one on the snare, and two overhead). How should I handle the compression? My understanding from reading the other thread is that although the RNC is stereo it is not two independent channels so I could only use it on one channel. I really can't afford four RNCs and that's why I was thinking about the Behringer. Any suggestions?

As far as what kind of quality I am looking for, I am a long ways from pro. More so I am looking to do cds that the average person would feel was pro-ish. At this point I don't know that I would be able to hear the difference between the RNC and maybe anything else but I know within three to six months I would (that's just how it works) so I don't want to buy something now to later just realize it sucks. Hopefully some good suggestions on what to use/how to set it up will help me to avoid that.
 
The RNC does have two channels, but they have one set of controls. So you could run the overheads through the RNC fine. You would need two more for kick and snare (maybe software?). so...I dont know what to tell you. I do know, I would not touch the Behringer.
 
Why not ametth? I use the Composer (old style) and get great comp/limiting with it.

Ed
 
Are overheads typically compressed?

I don't have any experience micing drums, but have gathered that its one of the tougher recording challenges out there.

So far as I understand it, I would primarily be concerned with compressing the close mic'ed sources, using dynamic mics on the overheads (which I assume you will be doing), probably won't need the compression as much.

FWIW: SONAR does ship with compressors and they can be used in real time, if you are running a bitching computer, under Win2k, with WDM drivers.
 
sonusman said:
Why not ametth? I use the Composer (old style) and get great comp/limiting with it.

Ed
Click to expand...


1) I would not touch B on principal alone..
2) He's talking about getting a new one.
 
Re: Are overheads typically compressed?

schwa said:
I don't have any experience micing drums, but have gathered that its one of the tougher recording challenges out there.

So far as I understand it, I would primarily be concerned with compressing the close mic'ed sources, using dynamic mics on the overheads (which I assume you will be doing), probably won't need the compression as much.

FWIW: SONAR does ship with compressors and they can be used in real time, if you are running a bitching computer, under Win2k, with WDM drivers.
Click to expand...

I usually use condensors on overheads. The question on wether or not to compress overheads: its taste, depends on the program material, depends on how your micing, etc...
 
HUH???

why do you bash behringher? they offer great gear, at low prices!!! most of their gear is definately better than alesis products. i have a milticom myself, and it is awesome! it is automatic, so you can just set the ratio and threshold and go. mind you, you cant make effects with it very well, but 4 independant strips of compression is worth the money!!! i also own a ultra DI which i think is realy good on bass.
as far a behringer products being bad, i havent had any bad experiences with the stuff. i work in a music store where our primary mixers for rent are behringer. we have had no problems from them breaking down or otherwise.

Lates
matt
 
If you choose not to use something based on past personal experiance, that is very reasonable. If it is based on past experiance of someone you know, fair enough. But to say "I would not touch XXX on principal alone" seems rather silly and elitist.

In scanning this web site I see a lot of posts from people who hate Behringer mixers but like and use their effects. My own experiance is limited to a DSP-1000 effect unit which works just dandy. Everybody seems to love the RNC too.

Fret, if I were you I would do this: Since you can buy a Behringer (but not a RNC) at Guitar Center where there is a pretty liberal return policy, buy one. Give it a good test drive for two weeks, if you like it keep it and if not return it and buy the RNC.
 
In my limited experience with their gear, I found it to have shoddy workmanship and not sound very good. Fair enough?


RWhite said:
But to say "I would not touch XXX on principal alone" seems rather silly and elitist.
Click to expand...


So be it, I'm a silly elitist!! Do you know the history of Berhinger? Just wondering.
 
I'll bite what is the history of Behringer?

The main thing that I am trying to avoid is I know that right now I could go out and buy the 4400 and think it is the best thing ever but it usually doesn't take me very long (maybe a couple of months) to learn the difference between a good piece of equipment and garbage. So if that's what it is going to turn in to I will probably need to avoid it.

Your are correct schwa, I am using dynamic mics.
 
Fret said:
I'll bite what is the history of Behringer?
Click to expand...

Notice how much B mixers look like mackies? Notice that B has their own "POD" now (which looks very similar)..
Early on, they STOLE/PIRATED/RIPPED OFF designs from Mackie, Aphex, among others. They were found guilty in court for ripping these companies off. They not only ripped off designes, they took it a step further, they completly reverse-engineered products, used the exact same parts, exact same circuts. This is a big no-no in my book. On top of that, their customer service sucks. Their workmanship sucks. Their parts suck (now). Etc...

Have a good day!
 
I will not discuss "principles" with anybody who uses a DAW in any way. I don't need to even discuss why a statement, and basis of it is totally and thoroughly hypocritical. Enough said.

Would you buy this product ametth? I have used one and I can assure you that it is a nice piece of gear.

http://www.drawmer.com/products/sdl241.jpg

Let's take a look at what it cost. I believe the price has came down a couple hundred on it recently.

http://www.fullcompass.com/lit/dl241.html

Now go to Behringers site and take a look at the Composer. Same EXACT unit. Same spec's. Yes, Behringer "ripped off" the Drawmer units design to make the Composer. But please, refer to my first paragraph.

The store I bought my first Composer from told me that when they first carried the line, they were selling for $700!!! Man, and you can get one for about $200 now! When I bought mine, they were retailing for about $280. Yes, definately the newer ones are not as rugged, but my older model Behringer is solid as any single rack space compressor I have used, and it sounds as good as the Drawmer does! Indeed it does.

I don't think a person can really go wrong with a Behringer unit. I have a couple Composers and a MultiGate, and I must say that the MultiGate is BETTER then some very high dollar gates I have used, such as Klark Technics, dbx, and Symetrix, all of which cost at least twice as much. The KT was $1600!!! and didn't work a damn bit better then my $240 MultiGate.

Bash them all you want, but you can't really be convincing to ME! I have had very good luck with Behringer gear, and ART gear, and selected Alesis gear.

Ed
 
Hey fret you are over looking one thing. On your delta66 you ahve 24 bit converters, and some really good ones on the home market level for that. one thing that benefits 24 bit over 16 bit is the amount of headroom, or signal you can send through the A/D converter. I have a delta 1010 and I am REALLY impressed on how well it handles hot signals, i havent clipped a single signal yet, and i try to get the hottest possible signal to disk. I think you should save your $200 that you are looking to spend on a compressor and do a session or two without it, and you will realise that you dont really need it. with that $200, i bet you will find a million other things to buy with it that you will get more use out of within about 1 week from the first time you track a session.
 
Hey Ed,

Ever try the RNC?? If so, what were your thoughts?

Bruce
 
Just have heard some tracks done with one. I would never consider one unless I was really rolling in the dough, mainly because it lacks a Peak Limiter, which I find far more useful in a tracking environment with digital recorders. I seldom compress more then about 2dB going to tape, but will limit whatever to keep a track hot. The Composers Peak Limiter is outstanding. We favored it's colorless limiting over a LA/2A for some tracks I did a while back. We favored it over a Manley unit too. It just did a nice transparent job of limiting and allowed a much hotter level to tape without hearing artifacts from the processing.

What I have heard compressed with a RNC sounded very nice, but certainly not totally exciting. For the money? Yes, exciting, but no more so then the Composer. And with the Composer having a Peak Limiter, dual mono, and Balanced/Unbalanced 1/4" I/O, AND Balanced XLR I/O's, I think it is a better $200 spent. But please don't take this as a knock to the RNC. I just don't think the RNC compresses any better, and certainly lacks some features that I feel are important, like Peak Limiting.

And really, the proof is in the pudding with anything. I use my Composers during tracking and mixing. I have even used it for a tad of compression on a recent mastering job where I needed a bit of analog interface to help the sound a bit. Hit a couple dB of gain reduction without "hearing" it with program material, and that is a pretty good indication if the unit works fairly well. Anyway, I get very nice sounding results with it, so any of you "pro's" out there who want to scoff at this piece of gear can shove it up your ass! ;) My Composer compressed tracks sound every bit as good as just about anything under a $1000! ((I had to add that in because of comments I have read on other BBS's concerning some of the "advice" and "preferences" that are offered here being "bogus"....what a bunch of crock!)

Anyway, this is turning into a rant, and I don't want to play anymore. Listen to my shit. If you like it, remember what I am using. I don't normally recommend cheapo gear, but when I find something cheap that works well, I will defend it's validity regardless of what the "experts" in audio have to say about it. (experts usually mean "gear snobs")

Ed
 
ok, i like the composer as well...

and jsut to show you that others do, go to http://www.motorstudios.com/ and look at their equipment, then their mics, then their outboard gear. I wouldnt be surprised if you are. they really are good, better then you would imagine. i also have a picture of ryan greene the guy who owns and runs the place micing a rack tom with a *heres a shocker* SM58. for those detractors in other threads about the quality of the 57/58 combo.
 
Ed, you should sell cars. I think you have sold me on buying a Behringer just to try it out.

I put a post on my own compressor question in the Recording Techniques section. Basicly, I am looking for more of a limiter and you make it sound like the Behringer does both well at a cheap price.

Amethh - if I do buy one and it does turn out to be crap, I'll come back and posty it so you can say "I told you so". With regard to your "history of Behringer" comment, yes I know that Mackie sued them. Yes I know they go out and copy everyone. I come from an IT background and in the world of computers everyone reverse-engineers everyone else, so this does not offend me "in principle". As I said I have a DSP-1000 plus a 802 mixer, and neither of them has spewed forth a smoke cloud yet. Given how inexpensive they were I don't expect them to be stellar, but they are fine for what I am using them for.
 
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