Yeah, but its not a real song, because you did it on your computer!

J

jokerone

Guest
How many of you have had people tell you this?

I realize its people who have no clue how songs are actually recorded or have ever been recorded.

Back in the 1970s when I was in High School, I would go to a concert (Rush, Ted Nugent, The Who, Sammy Hagar, Poco, Little River Band, etc.), and I would say to myself, why does it sound like that? The album sounds much better! Because I knew absolutely nothing about music, recording, mixing, effects, mastering, etc.

Now I know just a bit more than I did. :D

So when someone finds out I used a drum machine, or a VST this or that, to them its like Guitar hero video game or something.

So I'm assuming when I get this response from someone, its because their idea of making a song requires a group of people playing instruments and recording it onto a real-to-real tape machine?

I also have learned they don't want to see the sausage being made.

I'm just wondering if I'm the only person getting this.

thanks.
 
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Ask them how they think Queen did their part on Bohemian and Rhapsody.

90% of the music has been manipulation of audio waves for so long, amps, microphones, reverb, they are all VSTs on way or another. I think you just have to look past it as most people don't know much about anything. Just have to live with stupid. I would use ignorance, but most people won't take the time to go learn about anything, that makes them stupid.
 
Nope definitely not alone.

When I first started getting into playing guitar I was all about punk rock, AC/DC, guitars and amps and all that. My father got me a subscription to Keyboard magazine. One issue had an article about this new band/musician just hitting the scene at the time. It quoted some lyrics "Hey God/Why are you doing this to me..." and described a bit about his process which I glossed over. From the lyrics I thought I might be into it. So I saved my lunch money and bought a copy of Pretty Hate Machine. Listened to about half of the song in question and was completely disgusted. It was all drum machines and sequencers and samples. NOT REAL MUSIC!

Four years later, tastes had changed, I had a drum machine and sequencers of my own. I pulled out that old cassette and NIN became one of my favorite bands for years, and an important influence. And now here I am, pretty often being told that what I do is fake and half-assed. I'm not really doing it for those folks anyway, though.
 
DM60 said:
Ask them how they think Queen did their part on Bohemian and Rhapsody.

90% of the music has been manipulation of audio waves for so long, amps, microphones, reverb, they are all VSTs on way or another. I think you just have to look past it as most people don't know much about anything. Just have to live with stupid. I would use ignorance, but most people won't take the time to go learn about anything, that makes them stupid.
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Not to mention Dark Side of the Moon.
 
ashcat_lt said:
Nope definitely not alone.

When I first started getting into playing guitar I was all about punk rock, AC/DC, guitars and amps and all that. My father got me a subscription to Keyboard magazine. One issue had an article about this new band/musician just hitting the scene at the time. It quoted some lyrics "Hey God/Why are you doing this to me..." and described a bit about his process which I glossed over. From the lyrics I thought I might be into it. So I saved my lunch money and bought a copy of Pretty Hate Machine. Listened to about half of the song in question and was completely disgusted. It was all drum machines and sequencers and samples. NOT REAL MUSIC!

Four years later, tastes had changed, I had a drum machine and sequencers of my own. I pulled out that old cassette and NIN became one of my favorite bands for years, and an important influence. And now here I am, pretty often being told that what I do is fake and half-assed. I'm not really doing it for those folks anyway, though.
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I agree. Sort of funny watching the Grammys and knowing that all the Vocoded, Auto-Tuned are selling this stuff as something organic to those same people who question my music as not being "real". I guess since its on TV, that makes it "official". :D
 
jokerone said:
I agree. Sort of funny watching the Grammys and knowing that all the Vocoded, Auto-Tuned are selling this stuff as something organic to those same people who question my music as not being "real". I guess since its on TV, that makes it "official". :D
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I posted this some time back in another forum, I don't ask most people any more what they think of my music. I get the same dumb a$$ remarks as many of the rest here do. I do ask others who create music what they think. Not that I agree with what they say, or will do anything different, but there is a respect level in that, hey they too are "doing it" (different levels, but, most people here are doing something). To me that changes everything.

So when I ask non-music creatures (sound engineers are creators) to listen it is, more or less, hey here is a song. If you like it cool, if you don't, cool too. Leave it at that. Don't tell me how I should have done it or what should be changed. That is why the Edsel was a flop. Too many inputs.
 
DM60 said:
So when I ask non-music creatures (sound engineers are creators) to listen it is, more or less, hey here is a song. If you like it cool, if you don't, cool too. Leave it at that. Don't tell me how I should have done it or what should be changed. That is why the Edsel was a flop. Too many inputs.
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I get that from my daughter (15 years old). Wanting me to write something she likes (pop-bubble gum music top 40 stuff).
My answer is I can only write what sounds good to me. Her stuff, for the most part isn't interesting to me, so I wouldn't know where to "put a fork in it" and call it done. However, she is not one to tell me its "not real". She understands most music today, especially her stuff, is "automated" to some extent.

I guess its like cooking. I learned not to ask my family how they like something I've made, I just wait and see how fast it gets gobbled up. :D
 
Don't tell them you used a VST or drum machine. Unless you are going for the repetitive drum beat heard in a lot of new 'indie' songs, do some work on it and make it sound more *real*. Or not, if you want the repetition - I hear a couple of songs a day that are using a repeating drum machine/VST beat.
 
mjbphotos said:
Don't tell them you used a VST or drum machine. Unless you are going for the repetitive drum beat heard in a lot of new 'indie' songs, do some work on it and make it sound more *real*. Or not, if you want the repetition - I hear a couple of songs a day that are using a repeating drum machine/VST beat.
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Actually, I have been, but I don't think the people I'm speaking of would know the difference. All they seem to care is if its me/someone hitting a surface with a wooden stick or not. Otherwise, its just some sort of computerized "Toy" which calling it music is cheating and that is not to be taken seriously.

I would prefer they listen to it, then let me know it should not be taken seriously instead of acting as if how it was produced is the entire basis for their judgment, or pre-judgment in this case.
 
Around the same time I was talking about earlier I started looking at the grades I was getting in art class and in "creative witing" classes. I started having more and more people tell that what I do isn't art or literature or music. It caused some angst, but I realized around the time that I graduated that it really doesn't matter. Art or not, music or not, whether anybody else likes it or cares or not, it's what I have to do. So I do. It ani't art, it's life. People ask me what kind of music I make and I tell them Noise.
 
That's like saying Mozart cheated cause he didn't play all the instruments, just wrote notes for them. I mean really, sometimes what people think is just pure, whats the word, .... oh yea, stupid.
 
DM60 said:
That's like saying Mozart cheated cause he didn't play all the instruments, just wrote notes for them. I mean really, sometimes what people think is just pure, whats the word, .... oh yea, stupid.
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I agree 100 percent.
 
I get really cross when people hear something bad and say it's because "It's a MIDI", as if MIDI is something awful, and musician is something special? Maybe it's the fault of musically illiterate people producing dreadful versions of popular songs that has made the public think that computer=bad?
 
rob aylestone said:
I get really cross when people hear something bad and say it's because "It's a MIDI", as if MIDI is something awful, and musician is something special? Maybe it's the fault of musically illiterate people producing dreadful versions of popular songs that has made the public think that computer=bad?
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I agree. I think the people I'm talking about have an idea in their head (a stereo type) of what a musician is. What a musical instrument is, and what is considered talent. If you vary from these notions, then your not to be taken seriously.
 
DM60 said:
Ask them how they think Queen did their part on Bohemian and Rhapsody.
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The "no synthesizers" disclaimers that appeared on Queen's albums (until they started using synthesizers) weren't a sign of their hatred for synthesizers; the disclaimer was usually put at the end of the credits for each album. As one of Queen's former managers said, "We would spend four days multi-layering a guitar solo and then some imbecile from the record company would come in and say, 'I like that synth!'"
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Music/Queen - Television Tropes & Idioms

jokerone said:
Not to mention Dark Side of the Moon.
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That's a Queen song? :)

DM60 said:
So when I ask non-music creatures (sound engineers are creators) to listen...
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Wait, I am confused. Are sound engineers creatures or creators? And are they non-music(al) or NOT non-musical? Is being "NOT non-musical" the same as being musical? Is it possible that they are BOTH, or ALL of those things?
 
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stevieb said:
Wait, I am confused. Are sound engineers creatures or creators? And are they non-music(al) or NOT non-musical? Is being "NOT non-musical" the same as being musical? Is it possible that they are BOTH, or ALL of those things?
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Oh man, you're killing me and my hurried typing.
 
stevieb said:
Dark Side of the Moon
That's a Queen song? :)
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Of course..

Don't you remember the lyrics.

Breath, Breath in the air..
Don't be afraid to Carry on, carry on as if nothing really matters...
 :D
 
I'm just finalising the artwork of my band's album, on which I'm the drummer and keyboard player (and guitarist, bassist, singer etc., but they're "real" instruments)... except it's all MIDI drumming and some of the keyboarding is via MIDI editor.... and it's just going to say "keyboards, drums" in the credits... I'm not going to say "keyboard programming" and "drum programming"....

(a) I'd defy the average listener to tell the difference and, (b) I'm happy to edumacate anyone who thinks I just push a random button and out comes a drum program... I go to a lot of effort and time to make my drum programs sound real...
 
When I got my first four track, I worked up a song with Casio drums, bass, guitar and vocals, mixed it down to stereo and took it with me in a Walkman to a friend's gallery showing. When people asked me what I'd been up to, I pulled out the Walkman and said,"Here it is."

Nobody questioned the validity of it then, since it was a new thing. Now people think it's like working in MS Office or something.
 
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