Yamaha PF 2000 Questions

M

Muckelroy

Member
Does anyone here have any experience with, or own a Yamaha PF 2000?

A friend of mine is offering it in good working order, only without sustain pedal, for 75 bucks - which seems like a hell of a deal for a working, in good shape 88 key weighted keyboard.

I was thinking about using it as a knock-around keyboard for gigs, and as a midi controller. However I finally located a manual for the thing, and it seems to have only (eek) 16 note polyphony? Is that right?

Not sure that's gonna cut it for me....

Does the polyphony cap also apply if the keyboard is used as a MIDI controller?
 
I don't know much about this keyboard. But $75 for a 88 key midi controller? Velocity sensitive?

Seems more than fair to me. As for 16 note polyphony, unless you're planning to have it controlled w/ a sequencer, you only have 10 fingers right? Also, I doubt the sustain pedal is that complex that you couldn't substitute/DIY/or locate a replacement.
 
It does appear to be velocity-sensitive, according to the manual. As for polyphony, the tone generator is 16 channels of 6-operator FM like the DX7, so I imagine it will sound similar. MIDI is implemented as a series of 'key X on' and 'key Y off' commands so polyphony as a controller should not be a problem (assuming you have a way to press more than 10 keys at once anyhow).

What it doesn't seem to have as a MIDI controller is any kind of pitch bend of modulation wheel.
 
Blue Jinn said:
you only have 10 fingers right?
Click to expand...


HA! good point. Yes and as it turns out, my goal was actually to use it with an iPad with GarageBand (via a Midi to USB adapter). My experimentation shows the iPad has a best-case live polyphony of about 16 anyway! It should not be an issue, especially with live performance. When I play out with a solo or something I seldom play massive chords with sustain pedals, it's more melodic in nature.

So thanks, guys! I think this will work, will check it out next week to see how it feels and plays, and will probably snatch it up regardless!
 
IMO 16 note polyphony is a lot. Not sure when that started to be considered low. Even taking into consideration the sostenuto and forte effects for more authentic piano sounds I've never felt limited or experienced any note stealing with my Kurzweil 16 and 20-note polyphony units. 12 or even 8-note polyphony can be enough, depending on the note allocation scheme. Early Ensoniq designs were brilliant in this regard.

I don’t have any experience with this particular Yamaha unit, but I used a couple of their CP-xxx series digital pianos over the years and always liked the sound and feel of the weighted keys. My gut feeling is, if it’s in good working order with 88 weighted keys for 75 bucks what are you waiting for?!!! ;)
 
I just picked it up today. God it's heavy. And a lot wider/deeper than I was imagining. Oh well :)

Got the stand and bench with it, so it was a good score! I hope to somehow fit the stand onto my P-155, and use the folding stand on my P-155 with this PF-2000 for gigs. :D
 
What I ended up doing was using the PF-2000's stand on my Yamaha P-155. The stand has sustain and piano pedals built-in to it, but the sustain pedal was broken. The spring tab was snapped in half. Luckily I was able to swap the piano pedal spring over to the sustain pedal just fine. Can't use the piano pedal now but that's not an issue for me. If the second spring breaks too -- well I'll have to figure out a custom repair job of some kind.

I'll find some plywood to place between the P-155 and the PF-2000 stand to securely mount the P-155. Screw down the plywood to the ends of the PF-2000 stand, and drill holes into the plywood where the P-155's rubber feet can safely sink down into.

As for the PF-2000, I don't wanna sink $200 into an anvil case or anything. I'm going to find an inexpensive hand dolly and a couple of small winch straps I think, maybe a blanket, to serve as its mode of transportation :-) Shouldn't be more than a $50 investment, adequate, maybe excessive I think, considering what I paid for the keyboard. I wouldn't normally even care about a case or a dolly, but the damn thing is so heavy - I almost threw my back out lifting it my myself!

I'm finding that when I play the PF-2000, there is a long black strip of felt that goes along the edge of the keys, which is kinda lumpy in places, and stiff. Every once in a while, it will bow out and cause a key to not bounce back up quickly enough. I think this will require some attention if it becomes an issue and I can't "break it in" or anything. Any recommendations on felt to use for this type of repair if it comes to that?
 
Well go figure, first gig with this thing, I take it out in the Texas humidity, and it's key-stick city. What a mess. Need to find a service manual and see if I can clean the mechanisms inside.
 
I was able to "pop the hood" and remove the keyboard module fairly easily. With this thing out, I can focus on the root problem and see if I can clean/lubricate anything. That felt definitely has to go (the black strip along the top). sigh.
 
Well this is going quite well! The keys were filthy. Also the silicon-based lubricant on the fulcrum and center posts has more of a tar-like consistency and is clearly at the end of its life. This has become a massive undertaking, but I have completely disassembled the keyboard by removing all springs, removing all keys, and all counterweights. All parts are labelled 1 through 88, and are in a "dirty" box. I'm going through and one-at-a-time painstakingly scrubbing the parts clean with a toothbrush and mild soapy water, letting them dry, and putting them in the "clean" box.

As for the replacement lubricant, I called Yamaha Service Center headquarters in California, and they informed me that for this type of keyboard, 2 types of lubricant are needed:
For the fulcrum (back of keys) - G715 (part number VU342001) $10.40
For the center post (middle of keys on pivot point) - G355 (part number TX920271) $10.40

I ordered them online from www.yamaha24x7.com. With tax and shipping it ended up being $30.47. Not bad at all! The tech I talked to told me these lube containers should be enough for overhauling 2 keyboards, which is fine, I only need enough for mine.

I cleaned 13 keys tonight. Lots of work. I'll do 13 at a time (one octave) every night, that way about a week from now when the grease gets here, it'll be ready to reinstall.
 
Some Pics......

Here is the fully-assembled beast. Little did I know how much trouble lurked beneath the keys when I snapped this picture:
IMG_0262.jpg

I was able to remove a bunch of screws on the bottom of the unit, around the outside. Then, I flipped it over and literally could "pop the hood". They keyboard was connected with about 10 more screws, and had a few molex cables. It came right out:
IMG_0468.jpg

Here is the keyboard tear-down. You can see each key has a key, a counterweight, and a finger-shaped metal spring.

IMG_0480.jpgIMG_0483.jpgIMG_0484.jpg

And there's the root cause of the stickiness. Times 176. Each key and counterweight needs a bath.

IMG_0485.jpg


Here's how they look when cleaned up, and drying:
IMG_0497.jpg

I'm waiting on the grease from Yamaha and hopefully I'll be closer to done with the cleaning when it arrives.
 
WHEW! Finally finished cleaning the last key component. 88 keys and 88 counterweights are now bright and shiny!

The grease is still in transit, should be here by the end of the week.
 
Reassembly

Here is a photo of the grease Yamaha sent me. The larger tube is a white substance, a bit runny, meant for the center posts, and the middle pivot points. The small container is a blue, paste-like substance that reminds me of blue wasabi. This is meant for the back of the key, at the fulcrum.

IMG_0545.jpg

Before starting I had to prepare the keyboard frame. It was fairly dirty still, even after all my prior cleanings. There was a good bit of grease on the key posts, but this grease was not quite as broken down and tar-like as the ones that was on the keys. Also, I didn't want to have to re-felt the thing, so instead of giving it the soapy water and toothbrush treatment, I opted for the "good enough for rock-and-roll" approach, and used several pieces of masking tape to clean the felt like a lint roller. I also used masking tape to wipe any major debris from the key posts. I also "flossed" between them, a bit like flossing an 88-toothed alligator:
IMG_0546.jpg

More pics of the fresly-cleaned key frame:
IMG_0549.jpg
IMG_0550.jpg


Next I had to figure out which side was key 1 and which was key 88. This was a lot of trial and error but I got it right eventually. It also helped that each and every key and counterweight had been previously labelled with masking tape, 1 though 88.

First I had to take the counterweight and apply the white colored grease to the center mechanism. I used a toothpick for this, and applied a small amount to the sides of the key post.
-- I weaved the counterweight in, and then put a small amount of white grease on the center pivot point on the key. I also put a tiny amount of the blue fulcrum grease on the back of the key using a toothpick. I then installed the key on top of the counterweight. This takes care, as there are lots of nooks and crannies. But it was relatively easy. Then I reinserted the spring.
IMG_0551.jpg
This is when I almost crapped my pants with grief. The KEY STILL STUCK! WHAT WAS GOING ON??

Well as it turned out, I had not yet reinstalled the rubber key contacts. The key contacts provide the added "spring" when the key hits the bottom which pops the key back up after it goes down. Otherwise, without the key contact, the key was going down too far, and hitting all the soft squishy felt on the bottom, and not going back up. Reinstalling the key contact strips and board, the key felt like new again. I found that I did not have to wait to reinstall the key contact boards, and could reinstall them right away. I can reinstall the keys even while the key contacts are still in place.

So far I've gotten just over an octave done:
IMG_0552.jpg
 
All 88 keys are back in to the key frame, and so far they all play very well! I think this has been a major improvement.

I'll let it sit for a little while longer and test the keys out once more before reinstalling it back into the keyboard itself.
 
The last step for the keyboard assembly was the back plate (attached easily with 8 screws), and the long 2" wide black felt strip along the top/back of the keys. Again, masking tape came to the rescue to clean that piece of felt, making it look almost new. It's still a bit tired, and I should probably replace it, but now that the keys are lubricated and cleaned, it should not be a source of key-stick and will be fine to be reinstalled as-is after cleaning.

I ended up using hot glue - this bonded very nicely to the plastic of the keys and when hot, got semi-soaked into the felt to make a nice tight bond. I'm pleased with the result. Here's the final assembly waiting to go back into the main unit.

IMG_0554.jpg
 
Reassembly is complete! The only "hitch" was having to use a wooden skewer to move some wires out of the way when screwing down the keyboard, to prevent the wires from being pinched by the screw. Also a molex connector came loose, which was needed for the top right buttons. I simply cracked open the bottom board and reconnected it. All is well!

I now have acquired some 10 pages of the PF2000 service manual that describe disassembly, battery replacement, and keyboard disassembly. If anyone wants this, let me know via Private Message.
 
Just a small discovery I made on this keyboard:

I mentioned earlier that I've used this as a midi controller, to control GarageBand on an iPad. I have been wondering the most efficient way to control the volume of the iPad on-the-fly while playing aside from the touch-screen volume slider in the corner of the display. (Kinda clumsy) and the volume buttons on the side of the iPad (even more clumsy).

It just so happens that GarageBand for iPad uses MIDI channel 7 to adjust the volume of the current smart instrument. It also just so happens that the Sound Controller Slider on the PF2000 *can* be used as a volume slider for a MIDI device when "Local mode" is turned off. (Function 9.4). Works great!

Saved me from having to get a volume pedal!
 
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