ran into a good deal on a yamaha md8...i've already got my main recording decks but am seriously considering adding the md8 to my collection of bedroom studio equiptment...question would be, is the sound so horrible it wouldn't be worth it...does bouncing tracks degrade the quality by adding more and more compression to each bounced track...would it be a good portable tool for demos on the run...any thoughts would be appreciated
yamaha md8
- Thread starter triple
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Its a nice writing tool. But bouncing tracks is very very bad on the md8. What happens is the ATRAC while bouncing loses the frequency relationships. If you have lets say a cymbal crash where there is alot of 14k in it, and you bounce it with another track with 14k but from a flute, it keeps peices of the 14k but it doesn't specify where it came from as far as the instrument, so everything sounds choppy(truncated) and disconnected. I think VOXVENDOR experienced the same phenomina. the md8 only compresses once..until you bounce...doubly bad...
Whats the price...your looking at..
Peace,
Dennis
Whats the price...your looking at..
Peace,
Dennis
The Green Hornet
New member
Yo Triple and no Home Runs:
The trouble with bouncing tracks is that you lose control of tweaking the individual tracks. For example, if you bounce a bass track and guitar track to ONE track, you cannot tweak bass alone or guitar alone. You can tweak the track but it doesn't really work out.
I have an MD8 in my studio; it is a nice box; I did some good stuff on it; however, the Yam 2816 that I now use, is miles ahead. No comparison. I haven't taken down the MD8; it has some use in certain situations; however, it cannot match 16 bit sound that the 2816 offers, and the 4416 as well.
Why do folks get 12 or 16 or 24 tracks on a box? So they don't have to bounce tracks.
Just my opinion from using many units without bouncing.
Green Hornet
The trouble with bouncing tracks is that you lose control of tweaking the individual tracks. For example, if you bounce a bass track and guitar track to ONE track, you cannot tweak bass alone or guitar alone. You can tweak the track but it doesn't really work out.
I have an MD8 in my studio; it is a nice box; I did some good stuff on it; however, the Yam 2816 that I now use, is miles ahead. No comparison. I haven't taken down the MD8; it has some use in certain situations; however, it cannot match 16 bit sound that the 2816 offers, and the 4416 as well.
Why do folks get 12 or 16 or 24 tracks on a box? So they don't have to bounce tracks.
Just my opinion from using many units without bouncing.
Green Hornet
Newest User
New member
triple said:
For that kinda money the MD8 could be a decent addition(IMO). I still use mine, its going into the shop hopefully this month for some repair work on one of mic/line preamps, my fault and not the recorders. I love my md8 and I hate my Md8. I like the analog mixer section, and the simplicity, as long as you avoid bouncing your fine. I did have a sucessful bounce on one song, It was distorted guitars and clean guitars bounced down... it worked...
I guess you can go to the link below, to hear for yourself what can be done with the MD8. Listen to Revelation and/or From out of Egypt understanding the style probably won't be what you like, but it will give you an example of capabilities.
http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=1216&alid=-1
Peace,
Dennis
This isn't a crosspost for the mp3 mixing forum, so all you wannabe spam/posting police keep yur panties on, except Monty of course.
chessparov
New member
Just curious as to what would happen if you bounce the SAME two
tracks (or stereo backing tracks) compared to bouncing different ones
quality-wise? Your thoughts please!
The reason for this question is that I have a Tascam 564 MD 4 track
with coaxial digital outs only for tracks 1 and 2.
There's a "bounce forward" feature where you can bounce tracks 3 and 4
to tracks 1 and 2 on on the next postion on the data minidisc.
That way you have both the original and "bounced" versions on the same
disk! Being able to use the digital out is tempting, although by using the
4 rca direct analog outs (not bouncing), I've gotten good results IMHO.
Chris
P.S. The two track "mastering" machine is a...Sony MD.
It has ATRAC 4.5, however, and works at 24 bits.
tracks (or stereo backing tracks) compared to bouncing different ones
quality-wise? Your thoughts please!
The reason for this question is that I have a Tascam 564 MD 4 track
with coaxial digital outs only for tracks 1 and 2.
There's a "bounce forward" feature where you can bounce tracks 3 and 4
to tracks 1 and 2 on on the next postion on the data minidisc.
That way you have both the original and "bounced" versions on the same
disk! Being able to use the digital out is tempting, although by using the
4 rca direct analog outs (not bouncing), I've gotten good results IMHO.
Chris
P.S. The two track "mastering" machine is a...Sony MD.
It has ATRAC 4.5, however, and works at 24 bits.
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
Hey chess!
BTW, what model Sony MD recorder do you have?
I have the JE510 and JE320, for a few years now, both with manual record level,... but I couldn't tell you what version ATRAC, without looking in the manual.
Both of these units sound really good,... no,... they sound excellent.
BTW, what model Sony MD recorder do you have?
I have the JE510 and JE320, for a few years now, both with manual record level,... but I couldn't tell you what version ATRAC, without looking in the manual.
Both of these units sound really good,... no,... they sound excellent.
chessparov
New member
Hi Dave!
It's the Sony JE-440, and is actually Type R ATRAC 24 bit (not 4.5)
As an experiment I took a commercial CD, recorded it to the 564,
then took the 564 MD recording, and used the JE-440 to record
that. The Sony MD's recording sound very close to the original CD,
way more than good enough for serious demos IMHO.
Using the "inserts" on the 564 first two track inputs for your key source
material like lead vocal or guitar keeps things a bit clearer BTW.
(although you probably already know this)
Chris
It's the Sony JE-440, and is actually Type R ATRAC 24 bit (not 4.5)
As an experiment I took a commercial CD, recorded it to the 564,
then took the 564 MD recording, and used the JE-440 to record
that. The Sony MD's recording sound very close to the original CD,
way more than good enough for serious demos IMHO.
Using the "inserts" on the 564 first two track inputs for your key source
material like lead vocal or guitar keeps things a bit clearer BTW.
(although you probably already know this)
Chris
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
Okay chess,...
and BTW, even though I have not yet checked the manual, I seem to remember my MD's also had "Type R Atrac". Anyway, I can verify that later, but IMO the MD format sounds excellent.
OOOOHHH, ATRAC!!! GIMME MORE!!!!
BTW, I expect to take posession of the 564 within about 2 weeks, after the check clears and the UPS drops it off,... [but hopefully not literally!]
and BTW, even though I have not yet checked the manual, I seem to remember my MD's also had "Type R Atrac". Anyway, I can verify that later, but IMO the MD format sounds excellent.
OOOOHHH, ATRAC!!! GIMME MORE!!!!
BTW, I expect to take posession of the 564 within about 2 weeks, after the check clears and the UPS drops it off,... [but hopefully not literally!]
chessparov
New member
Dave,
Hope you like the 564 as much as I do!
The 564 is my "upstairs" 4 track-quieter there, and the Tascam 244 is the
"downstairs" machine (more forgiving with ambient noise).
Chris
Hope you like the 564 as much as I do!
The 564 is my "upstairs" 4 track-quieter there, and the Tascam 244 is the
"downstairs" machine (more forgiving with ambient noise).
Chris
Giganova
gimmi your mic!
hi there,
I also have an MD8 and love it -- even though it has it's limitations.
Since you can get an MD8 for 400-500 buxx on ebay in "new" condition, it might be the best value for your money. What other serious 8-track recording gear can you get for $400? Don't worry too much about the compression. I've copied a CD to the MD8 and wrote it back on CD. No one can hear the difference between the original CD and the second generation copy. The biggest loss in quality actually occurs at the mixer section of the MD8, not during the compression when writing to MD. The biggest limitation the MD8 has is that you only get 18 minutes on one data MD (which still cost $15), and that you can't make a backup of your songs. The great thing about the MD8 is that it is soooo easy to operate. You don't even have to read the manual, it's very "intuitive". You can make very respective demos with the MD8 if you can master on an external CD writer (I have a dual well professional Marantz CD writer which suits me fine).
I also have an MD8 and love it -- even though it has it's limitations.
Since you can get an MD8 for 400-500 buxx on ebay in "new" condition, it might be the best value for your money. What other serious 8-track recording gear can you get for $400? Don't worry too much about the compression. I've copied a CD to the MD8 and wrote it back on CD. No one can hear the difference between the original CD and the second generation copy. The biggest loss in quality actually occurs at the mixer section of the MD8, not during the compression when writing to MD. The biggest limitation the MD8 has is that you only get 18 minutes on one data MD (which still cost $15), and that you can't make a backup of your songs. The great thing about the MD8 is that it is soooo easy to operate. You don't even have to read the manual, it's very "intuitive". You can make very respective demos with the MD8 if you can master on an external CD writer (I have a dual well professional Marantz CD writer which suits me fine).
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
Not to bicker with you, but...
Q: "What other serious 8-track recording gear can you get for $400?"
A: A Tascam 38, 48 and/or 388.
=======
>>I just thought that question was provocative enough to answer myself, although believe me, I'm not bickering with you.
I also like the MD8 in concept and design, although I don't have one. I'm also glad you like your MD8, and I'm not knocking that, in the least. I've considered getting one, and may do so, at some future time.
Q: "What other serious 8-track recording gear can you get for $400?"
A: A Tascam 38, 48 and/or 388.
=======
>>I just thought that question was provocative enough to answer myself, although believe me, I'm not bickering with you.
I also like the MD8 in concept and design, although I don't have one. I'm also glad you like your MD8, and I'm not knocking that, in the least. I've considered getting one, and may do so, at some future time.
Giganova
gimmi your mic!
Re: Not to bicker with you, but...
hiya Reel Person,
guess you are right ;-)
Well, I bought my MD8 almost 1 year ago ... to be honest: I wouldn't buy it again -- given that there are so many relatively cheap hard disk recorders on the market meanwhile. At that time it was a great recorder. A harddisk recorder clearly has better audio quality ... all I can do on my MD8 is create some demos. It's NOT perfect sound quality and I can't master professional quality CDs from the MD8, even though I have a professional CD writer :-( Apart from that, I LUV the MD8 cuz I think it's a versatile and perfectly designed gadget which is easy to handle!
hiya Reel Person,
guess you are right ;-)
Well, I bought my MD8 almost 1 year ago ... to be honest: I wouldn't buy it again -- given that there are so many relatively cheap hard disk recorders on the market meanwhile. At that time it was a great recorder. A harddisk recorder clearly has better audio quality ... all I can do on my MD8 is create some demos. It's NOT perfect sound quality and I can't master professional quality CDs from the MD8, even though I have a professional CD writer :-( Apart from that, I LUV the MD8 cuz I think it's a versatile and perfectly designed gadget which is easy to handle!
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
Yeah, I know what you mean.
The MD8 is a good machine, it's handy, and has pretty good features, but it has a few weaknesses too. Remember, the vintage of the design is a few years old, and that's an eternity in technology terms. The MD8 is a cool gadget, it can be picked up cheaply used, and it has it's following. I can appreciate that.
With technology, everythings relative. Today's hot tech item is tomorrow's obsolete piece of junk that nobody wants. Don't feel badly about MD, because you're not alone. You have company, such as all the 16-bit people, and 20-bit people, not to mention all the REEL people, like me.
Everything I own is obsolete.
The MD8 is a good machine, it's handy, and has pretty good features, but it has a few weaknesses too. Remember, the vintage of the design is a few years old, and that's an eternity in technology terms. The MD8 is a cool gadget, it can be picked up cheaply used, and it has it's following. I can appreciate that.
With technology, everythings relative. Today's hot tech item is tomorrow's obsolete piece of junk that nobody wants. Don't feel badly about MD, because you're not alone. You have company, such as all the 16-bit people, and 20-bit people, not to mention all the REEL people, like me.
Everything I own is obsolete.
Giganova
gimmi your mic!
Everything I own is obsolete.
that's true -- everything's obsolete just a minute after you bought some new & expensive gear! After all, what matters is the quality of the songs in terms of creativity, not the sound quality. We all still listen to some Beatle songs from time to time, don't we? ;-) I still think MD is a great media. It was agressively promoted in Europe soon after it came out and is "still" very popular there. Unfortunately here in the US it's not that popular (due to a lack of promotion?), meaning it's future might not be too bright.
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
Sure, MD is the bastard stepchild of media,...
but it's still a clean sounding, small, handy little format.
but it's still a clean sounding, small, handy little format.
In Praise of....
I have been using an MD8 for 3 years without a problem. Done a couple of albums for friends and also lots and lots of demo's . Weak spot is not the ATRAC format but the analog mixer. Best feature is removeable media which, despite lots of complaints , I prefer to a HD setup which means that you lose your masters or buy a new HD. Ideal setup would be a unit that uses Re-recordable CD's which are cheap, and keeps signal path pure digital (24 bit) to the coax outs. Give me 10 minutes @ 8 tracks of pure sound from a cheap removable media and I'll buy it!!C'mon gear companies...Roland, Yamaha, Alesis. Here's your chance to grab ALL the marbles.
chazba
I have been using an MD8 for 3 years without a problem. Done a couple of albums for friends and also lots and lots of demo's . Weak spot is not the ATRAC format but the analog mixer. Best feature is removeable media which, despite lots of complaints , I prefer to a HD setup which means that you lose your masters or buy a new HD. Ideal setup would be a unit that uses Re-recordable CD's which are cheap, and keeps signal path pure digital (24 bit) to the coax outs. Give me 10 minutes @ 8 tracks of pure sound from a cheap removable media and I'll buy it!!C'mon gear companies...Roland, Yamaha, Alesis. Here's your chance to grab ALL the marbles.
chazba
tO cONTINUE...
One more thing, to get the best sound from the unit, keep your track level as high as possible but out of the red. This will allow the best bounce if you need to. I have done projects like that going from 6-7 tracks down to one stereo pair with excellent results. But you gotta start with all tracks as hot as you can get 'em to minimize the noise from the mixer both going in and in the mixdown process. Makes a noticeable difference. Also...don't print effects like reverb till you are mastering. That will clean things up a lot. Oh yeah... the single best thing you can do to get the most out of an MD8 is to ONLY record TALENTED people (like you) performing Excellent Songs.
chazba
One more thing, to get the best sound from the unit, keep your track level as high as possible but out of the red. This will allow the best bounce if you need to. I have done projects like that going from 6-7 tracks down to one stereo pair with excellent results. But you gotta start with all tracks as hot as you can get 'em to minimize the noise from the mixer both going in and in the mixdown process. Makes a noticeable difference. Also...don't print effects like reverb till you are mastering. That will clean things up a lot. Oh yeah... the single best thing you can do to get the most out of an MD8 is to ONLY record TALENTED people (like you) performing Excellent Songs.
chazba