Yamaha MD4

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DLockwood

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Hello:
I have have spent some time now browsing through you bulletin board. I didn't realize there were that many mini-disc users out there. Well I too record personal projects on a yamaha MD-4. I have some questions though regarding some external eqipment I'd like to get. I need some sort of monitoring system for it. I have been trying to mix my work using headphones... but no luck their. So any recomendations on this would be helpful. Also, I would like to get an external mixer for my MD-4. The question is what would be a good mixer recommendation? I would like to get one that has the built in mic pre-amps. I am currently using the Art MP tube pre-amp; but my quality is not so good. I am also looking at current 8 trackers available today. I'm really scoping out the new BR8 Boss. But again, I really do like the yamaha MD-8. The difference between the two is about $500 dollars though. What is your take on these two recorders? Which is probably the better of the two for the money?
Hey thanks for your time,
DL
 
If you already have an MD 4 ,may as well stick with formats. you can slave MD units off of each other. 12 tracks aint bad.
As far as mixers go, I love my Mackie 1402.
Beringer is making a very affordible line now. have fun.Charlie Mosbrook


[This message has been edited by Charlie Mosbrook (edited 06-23-2000).]
 
Thanks Charlie, but I'm still looking for advice on a monitor set-up. I've been looking at the the Yamaha monitors (NS10MS). But will I need a power amp for these? Any suggestions on which to go on this? Also, do you feel the MD-8 Yamaha is a better 8 tracker than the Boss BR-8?
Thanks
DL
 
Roland makes some decent little self powered monitors.
I use a Sony MDMX4II. So I dont know boss or yamaha well enough to say.
 
I use the Roland powered monitors that Charlie spoke of. I think they're called MA8BK's or something. I have a theory about cheap monitors that isn't all that popular around here, but unless you're gonna spend an ungodly amount of money on monitors, you might as well get cheap ones. These were 84 bucks, and sure freed up money that I needed to by other things, like a POD and a condensor mic. JBL also makes non powered monitors for $119. I've never used or heard these. The Rolands have a flat sound, just like other monitors, and I find them pretty accurate. There is a bass, treble and vol. control on them, and if you are mixing in a small environment, they're very good. The key is to set the bass and treble the same way everytime you mix, and every time you listen to comercially recorded music on them. Listening to other music is a must on any monitor system. This is why beginners are so comfortable mixing on a stereo, or whatever they're use to listening to. For me, its my car. This is where listen to a lot of music because I work out of town and spend a lot of time driving. I still check my mixes in my car because I'm so use to what music is suppose to sound like in there.

Regarding your question about the BR8 and the MD8, I've never heard the BR8, or heard many reviews, but, I would suggest for you to kn9ow the differences between the two units, and then make a choice.

I considered the Boss unit, but it was new and there weren't many review out there at the time. I also considered the Rolands but I was limited to the 840 budget wise so I got the MD8. I will list some of the differences for you that I know of and this may help you.

The MD8 can record 8 tracks simultaneously and the BR8 can record 2 sim. If you record by yourself this may not be an issue. The MD8 uses ATRAC compression. A lossy compresion that some people say they can hear and other people say they can't. The BR8, I think is uncompressed, but I'm not sure, because it uses Zip so there may be some kind of compression there. The BR8 has some built in effects. I've heard the guitar effects are adequate to good, I'm kinda curious if they're any good for vocals though. The MD8 has no built in effects. It does have an on board mixer however, with knobs and sweepable mids, the BR8 I'm sure has some kind of menu based mixer. You can get 18 minutes of 8 track recording from a minidisc, the 100mb zip can probably hold a little less than 1/3 of that. I hope this helps a little. My suggestion would be, do the research and get the one thats best for you.
 
Tanks Ray for the advice on the monitors and the BR-8. As for the monitors, I believe the small Rolands would probably work but I believe that they are probably more geared for computer mixing. Now Musicians Friend has the Alesis monitor One speakers with the RA-100 power amp (for about 550.) For the last year I've been mixing my work either through my personal home stereo or (like you)through my car stereo... (the car stereo worked the best so far). Either way I went I could never mix my instruments or my vocals with much consistency (I had to look that word up.) I visited other home studios in my area and found that everybody had some sort of monitoring system. So when I decided to go looking around for one I gagged at the prices. And also found that basically there were two different kinds: powered monitors, and the ones you have to buy the power amp for them. Since I had niether, I thought I'd better get monitors and the seperate power amp for them. The support tech at M.F. suggested the Alesis monitor for my set-up... but they also sell the product so they have a slight interest in making a profit (duh). I could even go with the Alesis point seven reference monitors ($179 a pair) with the RA-100 power amp. Oh well I'm still shopping around and haven't commited to anything yet.
The main reason for all this confusion is that I would soon like to upgrade my minidisc to 8 track which brings up my next topic: Yamaha vs. Boss. So far, I like Yamaha quality; but that's because I haven't tried anything else. There's an old saying: if it aint broke don't fix it. I think that applies in this case. I do believe Yamaha MD-8 will give me more bang for the buck. Although it cost about $500 more than the Boss I believe it would be well worth it in the long run. Any comments? tanks again, til next time, be good,
DL
 
I have the MA8s and for $90 they're not bad, but you do get what you pay for. I got mine because I had an in-store credit and it was the only monitor this music store sold (which still amazes me). I find them to be way too bright so I keep the treble almost to its lowest point. Otherwise, they work. But as soon as I have $500 I will get something else. If you are looking at Alesis Monitor ones and the RA100 (which is a decent set up) consider the Alesis M1 biamped powered system. You wont have to mess with finding room for speakers AND an amp and the the M1s also have an active crossover. I have and Alesis dealer that highly recommends this set up and it is about $50 cheaper than the speaker/amp set up. Also, Behringer will soon have their powered monitor system out. It looks to be another rip off from Mackie at $500/pr (Mackies go for $500 EACH). They are rather powerful--150 watts each (as are the Alesis--100 watts each). Just some food for thought.

Peace, Jim
 
The BR-8 does use compression. It is the MT2 mode found on the VS recorders. It also has built in effects and amp/bass/guitar simulators, from which I hear are very good with the exception of the acoustic simulator. The sound quality is comparable to Minidisc. You are limited with time however. Full 8 tracks (meaning non stop playing from start to finish) will give you about 6 minutes or less of record time( you have 50 track minutes all together). However, unlike minidisc, you gain time depending on how much you record. So if all you do is some vocals, and are willing to do things like submix the backing vocals, you might be able to squeeze a couple of songs on there. But if you record music, like a lot of people, you'll be buying a zip disk for every song.
The MD8 on the other hand has 3 band EQ (as oppossed to the BR8s 2), and it has the handy feature of an analog mixer, so the learning curve/speed is more accomodating. You've also got 18 minutes of record time.
Mixer? A low cost Mackie is the only way to go. The preamps are awesome!
Monitors? I agree with Jim in getting the Alesis M1s. I use the Monitor Ones with a 200 watt per channel amp. Buying that crappy RA-100 is useless. Besides, you need as powerful an amp you can afford to best suit the monitors, unless you go powered, which is, many times better. Peace
 
Thanks for the advice alien. I found a good deal on a MD-8, and I decided the features on the Yamaha far outweigh that of the BR-8. So with that done and behind me I would like to get more input regarding monitors. Now you advise I should abandon the Monitor One w/RA-100 set-up. You know alien, I tried that set up at the music store, and I really had to draw up the gains on both sides to hear some of my music with a lot of hiss. Now my first impression was that my recording was not all that good; and perhaps I could have done a better job with the recording, but I still feel that with the 100 watt power amp, I should have been blown out my chair.

Now what would make the M1's much different? I mean M1's only carry 75w low frequency and 25w tweeter. I'm looking at 100w through the RA-100 as opposed to 75w through the M1's. I can still go with the M1's, but I'm wondering What the difference is? The price is same for both set-ups.? Thanks alein.
DL.
 
DL,
See, the thing about powered monitors is that the amp is matched to the monitors and there are no extra amp to monitor cables, which results in a "cleaner" sound. The only thing is, you can't pump some PMs very loud, which it isn't really recommended when mixing.
Now with monitors, as well as speakers, in order to protect them, specifically the tweeters, you need an amp that can handle way more than watts than the monitor is capable of putting out. The Monitor Ones handle 120 watts apiece, so an amp kicking out 50 watts to each @4ohms, isn't really going to cut it, unless you don't plan on turning it up very loud. Stores, to me IMO, are goofy for selling that package without explaining this to them (well...it does cause you to go back in there after your monitors blow).
Price? M1s: 499.98 pr.
Monitor Ones with/RA100: 589.98
You may find them both cheaper, but that's a price point common to many places.
Now, I don't know anyone who's heard the Behringer "Truth Monitors", but they have an 8.75" woofer that gets 150 watts and 75 watts for the tweeter. Cool, but sometimes I don't know about Behringer (though their compressors are great), but we'll see. Maybe worth it, maybe crap. There are also the Event Project series whose PS5 has a 5 1/4" woofer with 70 watts/30 for the tweeter, and the PS6 with 6 1/4" woofer with the same wattage. 500 and 600 dollars respectively. And Events are good.
I'm giving you a lot of choices, so that you can go into a store with your favorite CDs and listen to them all. Not for what one sounds best to you, but which one has defined lows, mids, and highs, and seems comfortable enough to mix on at length (No Yamaha NS10Ms!).
 
Thanks again alien for spelling out the difference. I now understand why the RA-100 sounds like crap. I have already checked out the Event PS5's (same price), and I believe these will work just prefect for my home projects. Til next time, be good.
DL.
 
DL,
Always the first to admit when I'm wrong, the RAs do 100, not 50 watts per side @4ohms. Nonetheless, it is still unsufficient. So my, and many a magazines', advice, still stands.
BTW, the Event PS series got a Key Buy award from Keyboard mag.
L8tr!
 
Whats this on the slaving of mds?
Thats awsome didnt know u could is it dificult?
 
Hey Reco, thanks for dropping in... uh yea, I heard something like that also, I don't know quite how it's done. Maybe we can get the 'elders of wise' to pitch in on this one. It might be kind of handy to know since I'm now the proud poppa of both MD-4 and MD-8. Anybody wanna buy an MD-4? Til next time, be good.
DL.
 
Not sure about yamaha, but the Sony model follows the midi time. The units act as midi instruments.
You can download the MD8 manual here
 
Hey Charlie, yea now I do believe both MD4 and MD8 follow MIDI clock. At least they both do have the same connections and should hook up the same way as the Sony model. Good luck on that.

Hey not to change the subject, but while I've got everybody gathered around the campfire, I was needing some advice on the best way to connect my mixer to my MD8. Now I already have some guitar work recorded dry and the external mixer that I have is the Behringer 1804. I'm to a point now where I would like to do some experimenting with a different mix. Now the MD8 manual is a bit unclear on how to connect an external mixer and all this is brand new equipment to me. Any ideas on how this can be done? Til next time thanks agian.
DL:-)
 
Like I said I am a Sony owner, But I believe most multitrack machines have direct outs.
I run the directs into individual ins on my Mackie. This allows me to use the i/o's so I can treat each track individually. Cant do that using the MDMX4 mixer.
 
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