WTB- DAT vs. DA-88

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ksounds

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Hey guys.
Anyone want to chime in. I'm looking for something to open up a few more options bounce wise that don't involve a puter. I'll be bouncing from a portastudio. One option might be mixing down to a syncaset and having two open tracks to work with. Also looking into mixing down to a DAT machine for my bounce. Anyone have thoughts about this? Another possible option might be something like a DA-88, which would open up even more tracks once I mix down to it. I would really like to mix down to something like the syncaset, but hey, those DAT machine prices are looking pretty good on the used market right now-and the da-88's are pretty affordable too. What do you guys think about these options?
 
That might be a good option, but if you're going to spend that much on a new digital or cassette recorder, it may be worth it to move up to an 8 track reel to reel. You'll save yourself a bounce, AND stay analog at the same time. On top of that, with 8 tracks you could easily do internal bounces.

If you like the ease of the Portastudio, like having the mixer right there, then a Tascam 388 is an obvious choice. Otherwise, moving up to a TSR-8 might be a wise move, although you'd have to supply the mixer.

-MD
 
reel to reel sounds like a great option...I'm just concerned about the availabilty of tape. I could get by with 6 total discrete tracks, 4 from my portastudio 246 mix down to stereo on tracks 1 & 2 on an external 4 track (reel to reel, tascam 234...options?) and have two left over tracks to record on. I know the da-88 is digital (but it still uses tape, does that count in the analog forum?) but it seems like an awful lot of machine for the current used market value, and I've read some pretty good things about it. Plus the media is readily available. So...
What do you guys think about the following links as options?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...MEWA:IT&viewitem=&item=170122599295&rd=1&rd=1
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...MEWA:IT&viewitem=&item=130125181682&rd=1&rd=1
 
The Teac, as nice as it is is still overpriced. Plus you'd be better off with something that records half track at 15 ips. Like the Tascam32 or 22. And you could get one for less.

The DA, I can't believe how cheap they are now. I remember when they first came out and were the cutting edge.
 
The DA88/38 is 8-tracks and you can save up some more money and get another one to sync with it.

Why don't you want to go computer based? That's the cheapest option with the most features and flexiblility.
 
There's something very unromantic about computers and recording music. I like the interactive process of sliders and faders. I also like the idea of being able to utilize equipment that was far out of my reach even just a few years ago. I don't know...does that sound good enough? Gear is sexier than a computer tower and monitor :D
 
Sure that's good enough. However, I actually have five DA88's, a 32 channel mixer, and all the outboard that I would need to use the tape decks and the board, (It's what I was using 10 years ago) Once I started working in the computer, I never went back.

YOu can set up templates so when you are in a creative mood, you can just hit a couple buttons an be set up. No having to patch stuff together for 20 minutes before you get started. It always takes me out of my creative frame of mind when I have to repatch and troubleshoot a setup before i play.

With a computer, you won't have a physical track limit and you won't have to bounce.

Having done it both ways, I'm just having a hard time trying to imagine why you would do it the hard, restrictive way.

There is nothing wrong with doing that, but you are letting the idea of something get in the way of the reality of it.
 
Reality is just a state of mind.
Seriously, I think you can set up an efficient studio using any type of gear. Studios have been doing it long before the advent of computers. And whether or not you feel that flexiability is a freedom or a constraint is a matter of opinion. I guess what I'm looking for is something unique, something that can't be duplicated and something that is fun to use. Physical track limits can be very liberating. Sometimes I find 4 is a bit too constraining, but 6-8 would be great, for what I want to do anyway. Right now there are soo many non computer recording options available to us (thank you ebay) that this is really the best time to explore and exploit the technologies of the not so distant past. The pc format is boring! Been there done that. Might be better with a mixer type interface, but still. I'm in this to have some fun. Reel to reel could be fun, so might the da-88. I'm sure which ever way I go I can set it up to work with minimal fuss :rolleyes:
 
Farview said:
Having done it both ways, I'm just having a hard time trying to imagine why you would do it the hard, restrictive way.
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Self-discipline?

I've done both. I'll admit the computer setup is very basic, but I've used it for its unlimited multitracking and editing capabilities.
Basically I use the PC for prototyping and throwaway experiments. I also use it for compositing dialogue for an internet 'radio series' thing (these have become quite fashionable for webcomics now) and as you say, I wouldn't want to do it all-analogue.

But for music I'll work on tape. I consider it a matter of worth - is the song worth the extra effort of laying it on tape?

I also like the tangibility - there's something to be said for holding a pair of spools in your hand and saying "This is Songs for the Wild-At-Heart". A DVD-R with something scrawled on it seems kind of pallid in comparison.

On a more practical level, bear in mind that being an incredibly bad musician, I normally work from a sequencer anyway and then lay that to tape track-by-track under timecode control, with the vocals recorded afterwards in as many takes as it requires to perfect. If I had the skill to play the entire thing myself I might have a rather different outlook.
 
Well I went ahead and made a decision...
I bid on a Tascam 22-4 and won it. Maybe I paid too much, maybe I didn't. It looks to be in really good shape, the guy has 100% perfect feedback and it will suit my needs perfectly. So, hopefully it plays as good as it looks.
Would you guys recommend a dbx unit for this machine? Also, best place for 1/4" tape on 7" reels? I've attached a picture.
I'm assuming my 246's mixing board will work fine for this device, being a true 4 bus mixer and all. Any suggestions for this machine, things I should look for. Thanks in advance for opinions and help.
A little nervous about getting into reel to reel and the possible overhead I might be facing :o
 
here's the pic...paid $175.00 plus $45 for shipping.
 

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Any suggestions for this machine, things I should look for.
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From the picture you posted of the 22-4, it appears to be missing the right side tension roller which is a fairly important part!

You might still be able to buy the part from TASCAM's parts department. Give them a call.

The other things to be mindful of is that all the rubber parts might need replacement too because of the age of the machine, even if well cared for, (which I have my doubts because of the missing tension roller), can still degrade with age so the capstan belt and pinch roller are things to also ask the parts department about when you call.

The optional dbx noise reduction unit for that deck is called a DX-4D and are readily available on ebay and elsewhere.

Cheers! :)
 
jpmorris said:
Self-discipline?

I've done both. I'll admit the computer setup is very basic, but I've used it for its unlimited multitracking and editing capabilities.
Basically I use the PC for prototyping and throwaway experiments. I also use it for compositing dialogue for an internet 'radio series' thing (these have become quite fashionable for webcomics now) and as you say, I wouldn't want to do it all-analogue.

But for music I'll work on tape. I consider it a matter of worth - is the song worth the extra effort of laying it on tape?

I also like the tangibility - there's something to be said for holding a pair of spools in your hand and saying "This is Songs for the Wild-At-Heart". A DVD-R with something scrawled on it seems kind of pallid in comparison.

On a more practical level, bear in mind that being an incredibly bad musician, I normally work from a sequencer anyway and then lay that to tape track-by-track under timecode control, with the vocals recorded afterwards in as many takes as it requires to perfect. If I had the skill to play the entire thing myself I might have a rather different outlook.
Click to expand...
I guess since i do it for a living and have up to 7 different projects going at once, I couldn't imagine going back to doing manual recalls every day. Just documenting every knob on the mixer, every patch in the patchbay, and every knob in the outboard rack would take the better part of a couple hours. Then actually setting it up would take at least an hour (and it was never really the same)

I suppose if I was only working on my own stuff it wouldn't be such a big deal.
 
In addition to what Ghost said and if my eyes don't deceive me, the left tension roller cap is also missing [on that 22-4].
 
Farview said:
I guess since i do it for a living and have up to 7 different projects going at once, I couldn't imagine going back to doing manual recalls every day. Just documenting every knob on the mixer, every patch in the patchbay, and every knob in the outboard rack would take the better part of a couple hours. Then actually setting it up would take at least an hour (and it was never really the same)

I suppose if I was only working on my own stuff it wouldn't be such a big deal.
Click to expand...

Why not just take a digital photo of your mixer after each session? Saves a lot of time. For a really complicated mix you might want to take photos of several different settings and make notes, but that sure beats writing down every single setting by hand.
 
I'm not sure about the rest of your questions but I know tape (1/4" up to 2") is readily available from various sources on the net. Two places that come to mind are www.totalmedia.com and www.usrecording.com. I think you can still get Quantegy tape but I don't know for how much longer so I would stick with the RMGI. You might have to have your reel to reel recalibrated for the bias of that tape. Have no fear though, provided you can find parts, reel to reel is still going to be here for a while.
 
From the picture you posted of the 22-4, it appears to be missing the right side tension roller which is a fairly important part!

You might still be able to buy the part from TASCAM's parts department. Give them a call.

The other things to be mindful of is that all the rubber parts might need replacement too because of the age of the machine, even if well cared for, (which I have my doubts because of the missing tension roller), can still degrade with age so the capstan belt and pinch roller are things to also ask the parts department about when you call.
Click to expand...

and now...my nightmare begins :mad:
Should have had you guys look at it before bidding. I still have hope though. Maybe somehow it fell off early in it's life making it a low use unit. It still looks to be in excellent physical shape, and the seller seems to be reputable so his description seems promising. I'll know when I get it. Also,
if I'm using the 246 as a mixer, will it's onboard dbx work function apply to the 22-4? Or will I need an additional unit for that?
I'll call Tascam parts today...thanks cjacek and ghost.
 
bloomboy said:
Why not just take a digital photo of your mixer after each session? Saves a lot of time. For a really complicated mix you might want to take photos of several different settings and make notes, but that sure beats writing down every single setting by hand.
Click to expand...
The last time I had to do it, digital cameras weren't something that everyone had. I still don't imagine that a picture of a 32 channel console, patchbay and outboard rack would really cut it anyway. I would get calls like "the mix was perfect, the bass just needs to be a bit louder in the chorus", and I would have to re-create an entire mix (with all the fader moves along the way) from a zeroed out mixer, re-perform everything nad kick the bass up for the choruses.

With the computer, I open up the session- edit the automation for the bass in the choruses- hit mix.
 
ksounds said:
and now...my nightmare begins :mad:
Click to expand...

Yup, somehow I knew it was a rather emotional / impulse driven purchase on your part but that's ok, we've all been there. I would have personally steered you in another direction, like finding something locally rather than dealing with much incompetence on eBay, from the actual condition of machines to, gulp, packing / shipping. :eek: Where about are you located?

You will need a seperate dbx unit (dx-4d) for the 22-4. I, however, wouldn't bother with all of these details for now 'cause I'm genuinely worried about your transaction and whether the units' in a good condition and if it will be packed well as to survive the transit. I don't want to bum you out. That's not my intention.
 
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