Writing vocals/lyrics for music

[mikeh]

I think 32-20-Blues hit on a very key concept "It seems to me that utilising 'theory' and utilising 'convention' are closely linked."

There is a lot of established "convention" which often seems a very logical direction to take a song (ie: resolve the IV to a I or V). A writer doesn't need to know why the IV needs to resolve - but the writer knows the sound of the chord demands something. A writer doesn't need to clearly understand structure to realize that a verse needs to build to a chorus or bridge (or whatever) - certain things simply sound/feel right

Now, knowing enough music theory to know what key a song is in and to know the i - ii -iii -IV - V -vi -vii and the related majors and minors and perhaps understanding 7ths, 9th, augmented and diminished chords (depending on musical genre) can certainly help make the writing process go a little faster since you know which "logical" chords to doodle with.

Most artists would like a palette of more than one or two colors and most authors would like to use more than 10 words to tell a story. Along those lines, a songwriter may (may being a key word) often tell a better story or paint a better aural landscape with more tools (and a knowledge of how to use the tools).

That being said, I don't really depend on a lot of theory when writing and often find I don't need much more than 6 or 7 chords to support the melody lines I write - but I do know enough theory to quickly figure out what the ii or iv is when I logically think I need it.

 

[TelePaul]

That's not theory per se, that's just form, and trust me, rock and pop music are amongst the most formulaic styles around....

The first part of my statement pertains to theory. Yep, it is formulaic, the best songs I know are formulaic. I don't know anyone that his really broken the mould.

 

[fraserhutch]

Convention in time becomes music theory.

All music theory is is a means to explain what has been considered aesthetically pleasing in the past. After all, in music, that is all that matters. The physical apsect of sound is not what we consider music theory.

So, given that music theory evolves over time as does any art form, it can really be described as the codification of accepted conventions. It doesn't exist in a vacuum; what was acceptable in the baroque would not fly in the impressionist period and vice versa.

The only real "rule" in my mind is whether it is pleasing to somebody. It is art, after all.

The fact that the writer knows that the V chord needs to resoilve is a start, and neophyte writers will conclude that it should resolve to the I. However, taking from music theory, one can deduce that the V chord can also resolve to the vi, the IV, and the b6, depending on when and HOW you want to use it.

The last point that I was making before is that not only will music theory help things go a little faster, it can help you take it in directions you mightn't have otherwise considered.

I think 32-20-Blues hit on a very key concept "It seems to me that utilising 'theory' and utilising 'convention' are closely linked."

There is a lot of established "convention" which often seems a very logical direction to take a song (ie: resolve the IV to a I or V). A writer doesn't need to know why the IV needs to resolve - but the writer knows the sound of the chord demands something. A writer doesn't need to clearly understand structure to realize that a verse needs to build to a chorus or bridge (or whatever) - certain things simply sound/feel right

Now, knowing enough music theory to know what key a song is in and to know the i - ii -iii -IV - V -vi -vii and the related majors and minors and perhaps understanding 7ths, 9th, augmented and diminished chords (depending on musical genre) can certainly help make the writing process go a little faster since you know which "logical" chords to doodle with.

Most artists would like a palette of more than one or two colors and most authors would like to use more than 10 words to tell a story. Along those lines, a songwriter may (may being a key word) often tell a better story or paint a better aural landscape with more tools (and a knowledge of how to use the tools).

That being said, I don't really depend on a lot of theory when writing and often find I don't need much more than 6 or 7 chords to support the melody lines I write - but I do know enough theory to quickly figure out what the ii or iv is when I logically think I need it.

 

[tdukex]

Okay what are you even talking about? I posted my opinion. If it works for you fine, if it doesn't, fine. Whats with all the 'kid glove' treatment, you're going to the extremes to avoid conflict in opinions.

I don't even know what 'disingenuous' means; I'm assuming some kind of deliberate misunderstanding. I was in agreement with your thoughts on the fingering of saxes. You're making posting here alot of work, because prior to this I wasn't aware there wasn't a right way and a wrong way to write songs. It's a discussion, not a pissing contest.

I was only giving him advice. I never said my way was the only way.

You decided to disagree with me. I decided to disagree back.

Now you assert that I'm "going to the extremes to avoid conflict in opinions" and in your next breath whine that this isn't a pissing contest (implying that I'm the one doing all the pissing, thus creating conflict).

Let's just agree to disagree and be friends. I've read a few of your posts. I know you are a nice guy.

 

[Freddy]

Thanks for the input guys, and apologies to the OP for the hijack!

On reflection, I think the theory that I have picked up so far has helped, and I can see what you are getting at. I also think I may currently be in danger of settling into my comfort zone. A fur-lined rut... mmmm.. cosy, but still a rut.

I think this has inspired me to do some exercises, maybe by trying some less familiar keys (expanding that "palette") and "noodling" in less familiar territory a while - using theory as a map.

I still choose the direction, but a map is always handy - just as in real life

At the risk of metaphor overload, it's a bit like cooking. You may come up with a great new recipe, but it is more likely that you will if you know the basic "rules" first - then when you break them, it's on purpose