writing originals vs. playing covers

[Mr. C]

A friend of mine and I wanted to start a band so started jamming awhile back. In the last 4 weeks we have been getting more people on board, mainly through craigslist, but at least one person I know personally. Anyways the intent of the band was to play covers and originals. Tonight not everyone was present, but we worked on some covers with a female singer who came over tonight. After she had left I started talking about deciding exactly what covers we were going to work on and also "how about the originals" as I have a few I've written. The other guiartist felt that we should build up a set of covers first and then eventually work on a couple of originals. His reasoning is that we don't know each other's interests very well yet, and each of us would be presenting "our" songs. Whereas he thinks we should just get together and jam to put together originals as a band. So I'm kind of frustrated about this, as it's not what I envisioned. I understand as a band everyone has their own ideas, but I really feel each practice we should be working on an original along with the covers. As I told him, just because I might present an original doesn't mean it has to stay exactly as it is written, we could change it as it fits the band. Any opinions on this?

 

[Phrasemaker]

Yes, I had some similar experiences a good few years ago when I used to play out, which meant a putting a band together. I quickly learned that it's important to state exactly what you want to do musically from the outset in very clear terms, and establish what the other potential members want to do. If the is a variance that cannot be resolved convincingly it probably best to cut your losses and find like minded individuals to work with. Yes, being at a practice venue and hearing a couple of songs played collectively does often allow one to become less determined to follow a chosen path, and get wrapped up in the whole compromise thing. Each time I personally took that route, it just ended up magnifying every other cock up and caused conflict because some band members had their own aspirations that were not wholly compatible. I'd say the right band is likely to work way better than the right now band, excuse the cliché.

Good luck

Tim

 

[miroslav]

Next time say you want to start an original band doing ______________________ kind of music.....

....and that also adding some choice covers might be OK once the original direction has gelled.

 

[Greg_L]

Fuck covers. Stand your ground, do what you want to do, and fire people until you find the right people.

 

[ido1957]

You should do originals - you also need a leader to force it down their scrawny little throats. Just kidding, but you really could use either some cooperation or someone to make the decisions. Otherwise you'll all just wander around at practice getting nothing done.

 

[Oskari]

Communicate. Seems simple and obvious, but one of the hardest things to get right. A band is an intimate relationship with the magnified flaws of any one-on-one relationship. If you believe in your original songs, then you're going to have to either 'sell' them to your band members or find members that support your direction. Doing covers is great for instant gratification, but it takes real guts and integrity to follow the much harder path of promoting your originals. You're already talking about compromise and this isn't such a bad idea, especially as you work out the identity of your band. Unfortunately, there will be times when hard decisions must be made, especially if there are big divides in what each member wants. This is not bad - at least in retrospect - because you do want to make music that you really enjoy and believe in. It might mean taking 'baby steps' where you introduce one original song and workshop it with the band. If it works, great; if it doesn't, introduce another one and do the same. If you consider yourself the leader or chief songwriter it might serve you well to identify another member with an original song to work on. This can help take the perceived 'ego' threat away from you and allow you to show your strength in song writing and, most importantly, teamwork. Good luck.

 

[Mr. C]

Thanks for all the advice. What I plan to do will take a bit of everyone's advice. But it has got me thinking...I've been the one to pursue everyone for the band, even putting the post on craigslist, so in some ways I feel as if I'm the leader. It might sound arrogant, but hey I've done the work to put this together and know where I want to go. So now it's time to take charge...

 

[Armistice]

It's not arrogant, but it depends upon what you said originally to them as to how they'll take it. A band that does covers and originals sort of falls between two stools... I'd find it hard to get enthusiastic about it...

A band that does originals and chucks in a smallish handfuls of covers that they happen to want to do versions of and that sit well with the original material is another beast entirely.. and most bands will have a favourite cover or two in the repertoire anyway.

Decide what you want to do most and do it... and find the right people... like Greg said.

 

[Chili]

I agree with the advice you got already. The other aspect i want to bring out is co-writing with people you don't know. Your bandmate says you should write songs as a band and i think thats a bad idea. Unless you have a legit contract that spells out how you divide up the rights to a song, co-writing with band members will lead to frustration.

Imagine you guys wrote a couple of song together and eventually split up, which you will. He joins up with another band and starts doing songs you wrote with him. He's actually doing pretty good with them, too, and you want a cut of that. And rightfully so. Now comes the fight. Without any kind of agreement or PRO registration up front, you don't stand a chance of getting royalties.

You said you want to do your own originals and that's the best way to go. Bring a finished song to the band. They can come up with their own litlle versions of riffs, fills, whatevers without impeding on your copyright ownership. They can rewrite the arrangement and add to it, but because you completely wrote the song (and registered the copyright and with a PRO) they can't claim any ownership to it.

That's how i'm working with a friend. He brings his songs, i bring mine. We both work on them together with arrangement and stuff, but we don't share ownership.

 

[Greg_L]

A band that does originals and chucks in a smallish handfuls of covers that they happen to want to do versions of and that sit well with the original material is another beast entirely.. and most bands will have a favourite cover or two in the repertoire anyway.

That's how I roll. I like throwing in a cover or two, but the set has to revolve around originals.

 

[grimtraveller]

If there is a variance that cannot be resolved convincingly it probably best to cut your losses and find like minded individuals to work with.

Fuck covers. Stand your ground, do what you want to do, and fire people until you find the right people.

find members that support your direction.

You should do originals................but you really could use either some cooperation or someone to make the decisions. Otherwise you'll all just wander around at practice getting nothing done.

I nearly always advocate doing originals. I'm just not a cover kind of geezer. Personally, I've spent too long getting to that point of learning to play, getting up the courage to play and write and putting too much into learning how to record and mix to be doing covers.
One of the reasons I won't watch those talent shows is because they rarely allow originals and I'm not interested in another version of a song I already like or, for that matter, hate !
Like minded individuals on a long term basis can be hard to come by so you may have to co~opt people that you're not going to be playing with in 7 years. But they can help you get to where you're going at that time.

Communicate. Seems simple and obvious, but one of the hardest things to get right......

You're already talking about compromise and this isn't such a bad idea, especially as you work out the identity of your band.

big divides in what each member wants.

Divides need not rip a band apart but more often than not, they do. I've long felt that certain bands that had more than one direction made for some great music and the members often could not see that their very diversity is what made them so attractive in the first place. Ego unchecked will run rampant. But compromise and communication are important and they don't contradict the notion of having a leader or one at whom the buck stops.

If you consider yourself the leader or chief songwriter it might serve you well to identify another member with an original song to work on. This can help take the perceived 'ego' threat away from you and allow you to show your strength in song writing and, most importantly, teamwork.

I see no reason why you can't pursue different ways of writing songs. Zillions of bands have done and continue to do so. There will be some songs that you or whoever wrote it will want just so, while others are looser and require sharp contributions from all around. Then there will be those that are written together, which can be a good gelling experience, a bit like jamming. There are plenty of ways of coming up with songs that allow you to be precious about the song or not precious, as the case may be.

I've been the one to pursue everyone for the band, even putting the post on craigslist, so in some ways I feel as if I'm the leader. It might sound arrogant, but hey I've done the work to put this together and know where I want to go. So now it's time to take charge...

I'm currently reading an excellent book called "Light and shade" 'about' Jimmy Page. Much of it takes the form of interviews with him. It's fascinating reading what he has to say about the early days of Led Zeppelin. Though he definitely put a band together, it was his band, pursuing his vision with his ideas and he decided to produce it. He says he had the final say on decisions in the studio, he worked with the engineers, he directed mic placement on guitar amps and drums, he knew what he wanted. When Glyn Johns as engineer on their first LP got shirty and refused to do something, Page "made sure" it got done and when Johns wanted a production credit, Page said "not a chance in hell !". It wouldn't have been out of place to have called the band the Jimmy Page experience {or experiment}.
It's a little more difficult when a band has started as a democracy and then a member or members start taking the lead. It's happened with many {Beatles, Police, Pink Floyd, The Wailers, Mott the hoople, the Supremes, the Who to name but a few} and they nearly all cracked at the seams.

 

[FromtheSOUTH]

Tons of great advice here already. Here is my take-

I think anytime a new band gets together, it's a good practice to cover a song that is somehow related to the style of music you'll be playing. For my band, it was the theme song from the tv show 'The Munsters'. (not at all related to the shit we write.)
It helps you get to know a few things about your bandmates, how quickly they learn their part, strengths and weaknesses, are they easy to work with, or is it a pain in the ass, etc. And, it will help start a musical relationship with your bandmembers instantly. Pick an easy tune that's fun to play, so you can get to the feeling of success almost instantly.

As for writing, you'll just have to figure out what works best for the band. Have a band meeting, be professional, and work it out.

Personally I enjoy working on the songs I write with the band, helps me visualize what I want the song to accomplish, but I enjoy having a full song to present to the band too, it tends to get us to the finished product a lot quicker.

Your bandmates will probably feel left out the first time you bring a complete song, so make sure they're allowed a lot of creative freedom. Though, if they get out of line, make sure you tell them (professionally).

 

[Mr. C]

Talked to my friend who is one of the other guitarists in the band. He said he could tell I wasn't too happy with what the other guy was saying. He agreed with me about doing originals. He said I need to take charge and come in next practice with a list of what to practice including originals (which I already was planning on doing). It really helped to have his support and that he assured me he would back me up on whatever I wanted to do. So at least if everyone else bails at least I still will have one other bandmate!

 

[acidrock]

At the end of the day either someone is the leader of the band and gives out orders or you're all going to have to agree on what you're going to do.

As far as covers VS originals,as long as it's performed well it shouldn't matter.Are you playing to make the crowd happy or stroke your own ego?I'm all for originals but there's way too many great songs out there to discount covers completely.

 

[simplymade]

stand your ground

Hey

I have been doing cover tunes since the 1970's. I have never gotten famous from doing other peoples material. And there are thousands of wonderful songs out there. Of course they come to us from original singer/songwriters. Most venues receive request from plenty of cover bands looking for a place to play. Cover bands tend to end up as a fixture in many clubs. No one really is there to observe how wonderful they are, or how well they can mimmic someone elses hard work. I decided to go my own way and present the world with what I have to offer. I am still not famous, but more satisfied with myself for what I am doing.

It has taken me 3 years to find just another Guitarist and Bassist that feel the same way. So unless you die in the meantime, continue to build your dream. Who knows, perhaps someday a cover band will be playing your song in a club somewhere.

 

[grimtraveller]

I'm all for originals but there's way too many great songs out there to discount covers completely.

That's really dependent on what you want to do though, isn't it ? The fact that there are great songs out there doesn't mean you have to or should even want to, do them. The irony is that the reason there are so many great songs out there is because at some point in the mid 60s, artists decided that they were going to do more and more of their own stuff until albums full of originals were the norm, not the exception.

As far as covers VS originals, as long as it's performed well it shouldn't matter.

Hmmm. If you're going to do any songs at all, they should be performed well. But it matters a great deal whose music you're going to perform. Some just do not want to do other peoples' music.

Are you playing to make the crowd happy or stroke your own ego ?

Wanting to pursue your own musical vision isn't stroking your ego. Well, it might become that later on, I'll concede that. But the truth is that any crowd has to take what they're given. And then they make the decision if they want more. A band/artist doing originals possibly has to work harder, but why shouldn't they have to ?
Tragic and irritating it would be if we came full circle back to the days when the idea of new bands writing their own material was at worst laughable and at best, just not done.

 

[acidrock]

That's really dependent on what you want to do though, isn't it ? The fact that there are great songs out there doesn't mean you have to or should even want to, do them. The irony is that the reason there are so many great songs out there is because at some point in the mid 60s, artists decided that they were going to do more and more of their own stuff until albums full of originals were the norm, not the exception.[/I]

It's just my opinion and a different point of view.My self,I hear a great song and I want to play it.Even if I had ten hours worth of originals I still would want to play a few covers.I always feel there is some kind of anti-cover sentiment on these boards,and I like to chime in once in a while.

When you say 60's do you mean the 1960's?Some of us go back a lot farther than that.I would say there were plenty of great songs before then,just the dynamics have changed.

 

[acidrock]

Wanting to pursue your own musical vision isn't stroking your ego. Well, it might become that later on, I'll concede that. But the truth is that any crowd has to take what they're given. And then they make the decision if they want more. A band/artist doing originals possibly has to work harder, but why shouldn't they have to ?
Tragic and irritating it would be if we came full circle back to the days when the idea of new bands writing their own material was at worst laughable and at best, just not done.

I made that comment from the standpoint of what his priorities are,if he just wants to perform his own songs or if he wants to be a working musician.They're not mutually exclusive,but should a conflict arise,which path would he chose.

Maybe saying "stroking your ego" seems a bit harsh,but it's been my experience that egos are one of the biggest stumbling blocks for bands.

It's been a long time since I played out and I never considered my self as an "artist" I've always considered myself more of an entertainer.We played a few originals,but the places we played would never have hired us if that's all we did.As long as everybody had a good time I was happy.

 

[stevieb]

Adding this to the already good advise here...

Over the years, I have learned three ways to start a band:

1. Get a bunch of mates together, let everyone bring songs to the group which are more or less played, depending on how the group feels about them. From my experience (FME,) a recipe for mediocrity- not always, but plenty often enough. Brace yourself for a flood of covers.

2. Have a vision of what you want to do, recruit some number of band members, communicate your vision to them clearly and firmly, but give them enough lee-way to create. FME, had to do, but worth the mis-steps when you finally get it together. Just don't look for Rolling Stones- or Aerosmith-type longevity. Rarely happens. Oh, do covers, originals, standards, new arrangements, doesn't matter if the band is good, you will have something of a following.

3. Get one, two TOPS, other musicians, work on your originals and his/hers, and tell the rest of the world to go fuck it's self. If you are any good, you will do well. If you suck, you suck. Who cares? Kipling got it right:
"If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same..."

 

[Greg_L]

I 99% despise covers when playing live. That last 1% is left for a fun oddball or different arrangement of a cover song. But straight up covers live? No way. Cover bands get paid more, for some reason, but I don't care. I'd rather get paid nothing and play originals. I've never wanted to be a "working musician". I just want to write and play stuff I or the band writes. There's no ego behind it because I know it will get me nowhere and I never expect anyone to like it, but still, at least I'm playing my own music and not hacking my way through someone else's.