Write a new blurb for this board

  • Thread starter Thread starter mshilarious
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By the way,(or BTW)...

Terry Wetzel said:
I take it that my question is too strange or out of place here to deserve an answer. Did I post in the wrong category? I naturally assumed that since a question regarding eq would be integral to mixing & mastering, that I was in the correct forum. Well..... Helloooo..... Is any none out there???:confused:
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What the hell is a Blurb?
 
BrentDomann said:
Terry, I think you're OK in the mixing/mastering forum, but you're in a thread where folks are discussing an administrative forum matter. You might be better off starting your own thread on this one...I think your question is going to need the individual attention that its own thread would provide.
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Thanks for clearing me up on that. I may have just made Senior Member but I'm still out to lunch in finding my way around the forums. How would I move my question to the correct forum or, convert it to a new thread as you suggest? I'm really interested in reading what ever answers I might recieve. Thanks again.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
But there has, for better or worse, been a little bit of an evolution in the definition of "mastering" as just about anything done to a 2mix after the final mixdown has been created, in which case thee may be some information that elates to you.

Unfortunately this looser definition has opened the door to a shitload of abuse of the mastering process as a poor-man's version of mixing; i.e. the large number of "home recorders" who understandably just can't mix very well because they jumped into this thinking that DAW software mixes their tracks for them automaticlly, are turning to the mastering stage as a way to try to fix their mixes instead of actually getting the mix right to begin with.

G.
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This is where the lumping problem comes from. While I made my own quasi-suggestion above, Glen's got a real point here. There are only a few ways we can deal with it as far as I can tell:

1. Leave them lumped together because the popular definition is what's going to drive the average home recordist's understanding anyway;

2. Split them up but allow any mastering-only section to remain a place where people expect illegally-obtained, free, or inexpensive plugins to do all of their work; or

3. Split them up and take strict control over any mastering-only section to ensure that its focus is on matters related to preparation for distribution, final 2mix EQ, etc.

Personally, I think #3 is the only one that's going to satisfy the professionals and the serious hobbyists. We do get threads here, too, that would fit. I'm reminded of the recent thread about preparation for mp3 encoding, and I can imagine questions regarding how to really EQ songs for one album that were recorded with different instruments at different times. Simple enough.

On the other hand, without strict control (which many might mislabel as "elitism"), #3 will devolve into #2 pretty quickly. We'll have Joe Blow in his basement laying down the law about some plugin while 30,000 other schmucks with the same plugin overwhelm a pro trying to give good advice.

One last question, maybe a rhetorical one: Don't we want to make the best recordings possible, even if this is a home recording board? Just because we focus on home recording, does that mean we have to let home recordists run the show?
 
Terry Wetzel said:
Thanks for clearing me up on that. I may have just made Senior Member but I'm still out to lunch in finding my way around the forums. How would I move my question to the correct forum or, convert it to a new thread as you suggest? I'm really interested in reading what ever answers I might recieve. Thanks again.
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Terry,

When you're in the Mixing/Mastering section (and you see all of the threads listed there), look towards the top left of the list of threads. Just below the "User CP" link, there's a button that says "New Thread". Just click that button. You'll have to give it a title, but other than that it's just like a normal post.
 
BrentDomann said:
Just because we focus on home recording, does that mean we have to let home recordists run the show?
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But they DO run the show, Brent. The problem is is the assumption that "home recordist" automatically means amateur hobbyist with a hundred bucks worth of gear and no knowledge yet. The reality is that describes only one segment of the home recording demographic.

There are many, many "home recordists" that span the spectrum from that small hobbyist to the experienced prosumer with a modest home mixing/editing desk, to the band leader with a pretty sophisticated 24-track hybrid A/D recoding studio in what used to be the basement, to the pro engineer tired of working in someone else's audio castle who has spent six digits to turn his 2-car garage into a top-shelf-quality, 6-digit studio.

The $100 hobbyists sometimes resent the bigger budget and more experienced guys, and the bigger guys sometimes resent the rookies. It's a shame, because we are all in the same boat and should learn to row in the same direction. And I can't see that direction being in any other way than the direction of working better, not worse.

And if that's the case, then we gotta get away from the whole "mastering is for making mixes sound good" idea and get back to the basics of actually learning how to make good mixes. And, it seems to me (IMHO and all that) that the best way to deal with that is to separate out mixing and mastering to emphasize the fact that they are not the same thing.

G.
 
Well..I STILL believe we need to separate the two into their own fourms..MIXING...and then, MASTERING...then y'all can make two blurbs..:D
 
The biggest issue with splitting off is the archive here. Are we going to go through all of those same questions again?

I believe that this section should be locked down and available for search with two new sections added one for mixing and one for mastering. Though I have a feeling that if this is done the mastering section is going to be far less busy.
 
I still remain totally opposed to a separate mastering forum, it sends completely the wrong message to the average home recordist by greatly exaggerating the importance of the real process of mastering to the home recordist. You think the "how do I fix this mix with plugs" questions are bad now, just wait until you have your own forum.

For a home recordist completing the entire recording process alone, they should conceive of that process as fully integrated and not consisting of discrete steps. We know that when most people ask about how to master their tracks, they are really asking what magic formulae can make their mix loud, even in spite of basic flaws in tracking and mixing that would need to be resolved first.

I mean, how many "mastering" questions here have ever been about real mastering? I mean PQ, C1/C2, or simply balancing multiple tracks across a CD or even crossfades between tracks? Audio error detection and correction? None. It's all "how do I get my mp3s real loud on myspace?"

Thus, I think there should be one board for tracking, mixing, and mastering, but the admins deemed it too hard to merge Recording and Mixing & Mastering.

If you ever get your forum, I hope you enjoy the debacle it will become.
 
It's a freakin' debacle now. People pay no attention to what forum they ask questions in as it is, and most topics having nothing to do with the forum they are in to begin with. Here's a real life sampling of what is as of this writing showing up on the first page of the following forums that don't belong there:

RECORDING TECHNIQUES
Mixraft vs. Samplitude (DAW editor quality)
Unprocessed Vocal Tracks (mixing technique)
FX in Individual Tracks Get Lost in the Mix (mixing technique)
Mic on a Budget (microphone purchasing)
Just got Sucked into Waves an iLock (purchasing software)
Old C1000 AKG (mcrophone purchasing)
Open or closed back headphones (replacement headphone purchasing)

MIXING/MASTERING
Question about tracking too hot (Recording technique)
What's great DAW software for recording? (Recording gear)
What's Wong With My Mix? (MP3 Clinic)
Write A new Blurb for this Board (BBS Feedback)

OK, I included that last one as kind of a joke ;).

But the point is, avoiding a question-raising debacle is the last thing this BBS needs to worry about, it's already here. I don't see how giving mastering the seperate forum it deserves could possibly make things any worse.

And for all the mixing questions wrongly asked in the mastering forum, we'll be able to separate the real MEs who will say "that should be handled in mixing" from the posers those who will say "you came to the right place".

And if you want to use the "integrated process" as reasoning for forum layout, then we should get rid of the Recording Techniques forum and just throw everything into one big pile. I, for one, would be the first to reject that idea. We don't need an environment even more conducive to low signal-to-noise thread listings than it already is.

G.
 
Because it would say that Mastering is an Important Topic that All Home Recordists must consider, when the reality is most of them can safely ignore it and get back to working on tracking and mixing.
 
mshilarious said:
Because it would say that Mastering is an Important Topic that All Home Recordists must consider, when the reality is most of them can safely ignore it and get back to working on tracking and mixing.
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They already believe that. They just believe it for bogus reasons.

I can see your point, Jon. But I also see it this way; putting mixing and mastering together just re-enforces those bogus reasons in making it seem as though they are two sides of the same coin.

Either way, most of the folks out there are still going to get it wrong because of forces outside the jurisdiction of this BBS, and how you guys divide the forums probably aren't really going to make one whit of difference. I only brought it up originally because I never understood the arbitrariness of the forum splits to begin with.

G.
 
There are certainly good arguments on both sides AFA splitting forums into very narrow, specialized categories VS lumping several into a more general topic.

Yeah...topics on "Guitars and Basses" should never pop up in a Mixing/Mastering forum...but likewise, some guys think Guitars and Basses should not be lumped together any more than Mixing/Mastering is (just to use one example).

IMO...categories that have a certain amount of "natural overlap" don't always benefit from being splintered into their own forum because they are either too narrow and can't sustain enough traffic on their own, thus cluttering the board with yet one more forum to have to scan and consider how it relates to Home Recording...or it often confuses some people as to where they should actually ask their questions...especially if their questions ALSO overlap across 2-3 aspects of Home Recording.
However, some are strong enough to be true standalone categories and shouldn’t be lumped in with others.

For me…Recording/Mixing/Mastering is a start-to-finish process, so there ARE questions that overlap across all three. People sometimes discuss certain mastering issues, and the replies point back to something that should have been done during tracking…so yeah, there is overlap.
But then you have some very narrow focused forums that have their own categories…like DJ & Hip Hop Production…???...so how does that rate VS Mixing and Mastering having their forums….???

There are many ways to look at it…none with very clear answers.
For me…Mics and Rack gear should be part of the Recording process…but I guess if there are enough single questions about Mics…then maybe there should be a forum just for that, though very often, a question about Mics is DIRECTLY tied to how it will be used for Recording!!! :D
Lots of things to consider there……

I look at forums as I would bars...
...while something positive can be said for having very fine-line "theme bars"...it's also nice having more "general public" establishments that welcome a variety of people rather then everyone turning around and staring at you when you walk in with that "you don't belong here" glare. ;)
That way...you can mill around in the crowd and get all kinds of great interactions and information rather than hear nothing but the same topics/perspectives.
Ever been at a cocktail party with a room full of lawyers??? :eek:

I guess for this BBS….it may be best to just look at the activity over a period of time and to also monitor the topics that come up on the individual forums…and then use that to decide which forums should be lumped, split, eliminated or even added as new forums.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
But they DO run the show, Brent. The problem is is the assumption that "home recordist" automatically means amateur hobbyist with a hundred bucks worth of gear and no knowledge yet. The reality is that describes only one segment of the home recording demographic.

There are many, many "home recordists" that span the spectrum from that small hobbyist to the experienced prosumer with a modest home mixing/editing desk, to the band leader with a pretty sophisticated 24-track hybrid A/D recoding studio in what used to be the basement, to the pro engineer tired of working in someone else's audio castle who has spent six digits to turn his 2-car garage into a top-shelf-quality, 6-digit studio.
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Geez, Glen. Good call. I should have been more careful with my words, because I certainly understand that "home recordist" includes the very experienced as well as the hobbyist. Hell, sometimes the hobbyists are very experienced.

All I meant to say is that most of the time the inexperienced outnumber the experienced, and that can be a problem when the inexperienced are those that determine whether things gained from experience are worthwhile.
 
Yes, there should be a separate mastering forum.

Its content should be a single locked thread that states, "No, despite whatever you've heard, if it's a home recording where you tracked and mixed it, you can't do this yourself."
 
BrentDomann said:
All I meant to say is that most of the time the inexperienced outnumber the experienced, and that can be a problem when the inexperienced are those that determine whether things gained from experience are worthwhile.
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Agreed.

It just kills me when the phrase "this is only home recording" comes second in frequency only to "how do I get that pro sound?". It usually starts with the latter, and then when they get an answer that they have to work at it, they respond with the former. ;)

G.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
It just kills me when the phrase "this is only home recording" comes second in frequency only to "how do I get that pro sound?". It usually starts with the latter, and then when they get an answer that they have to work at it, they respond with the former. ;)
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And then I get this again:
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to SouthSIDE Glen again.
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SouthSIDE Glen said:
Your points and questions are not ridiculous at all; with all the misinformation out there this stuff can get confusing.
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Thank you for your response, and info about "Foley", and general kindness in your tone with me.

SouthSIDE Glen said:
And yes, by the traditional, originally intended definition of mastering - which is the process of prepping recordings for printing and release on their final medium or media - a guy in your current position does not need a whole lot of "mastering".
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That clears a LOT up for me, Glen.

So, I'm reading the posts since our conversation, and there seems to be a hesitancy to give "Recording", "Mixing", and "Mastering" their own forums (which I think is a splendid idea, by the way), because of the lack of traffic that would result in the "Mastering" forum.

What is so bad about a lack of traffic in a forum? Why can't the Mastering forum be reserved for people who are concerned about taking their recordings to the next level: prepping them for a wider audience than themselves, or their closest friends?? If it was clearly defined, it would seem a useful way for a newbie and/or an experienced person to navigate through the process. Someone like me, who is just trying to be more educated in how to create a decent recording, and mix it in a way that is pleasing to listen to - one song at a time - would never venture to the more in-depth process of post-production for distribution purposes (Mastering). Whereas, someone who already has a handle on the recording process, and mixing (like so many guys who post things in the mp3 clinic), would benefit by having a forum dedicated to the final stages of treatment to their (already well-tracked, well-recorded) music, before they make it available to the masses (however massive their "masses" may be!).

Again, I'd like to say, True had the best solution to this question, so far, with her list. But, I'm still waiting to hear back from her about the "Ears" one??? A couple of people have asked or intimated the question: what would that forum discuss, exactly? Would that be the monitoring of tracks, or mixes? I'd really like to know what the original intent was of that one on the list.
 
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