Would you say you need to go to college/university in order to make good music?

  • Thread starter Thread starter vintagelatin
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I've seen a couple of TV news reports about a recent trend in corporate hiring. Some companies are waiving the college degree requirement in an effort to widen the pool of eligible applicants. IMO, this is very good on the one hand, not so good for the college kids who've invested time and money for what may be an unnecessary piece of paper.
 
Last Christmas I really struggled to find an experienced Sound No. 2, We found one who could do some, then another - but we were all asking our friends, friends of friends and nobody actually even thought about degrees - just ability. To make it worse, so many recent degree holders actually useless. Degree in Sound Design, yet given a pile of kit in flight cases, they couldn't make it make noise! Sound - as in live sound or recording needs experience - in-depth or sometimes just basic, but a degree guarantees nothing at all!
 
There's an obvious difference between having theoretical knowledge of a subject, and have practical hands on experience. That's why plumbers and electricians have apprentice programs. It's not enough to know that this wire is hot, this one is cold, and this one is ground. You also need to pull the wire through the conduit, connect the screws to the outlets, install the breakers, etc. You don't get that in a book.

Some people have an aptitude for the mechanical side. They like to get their hands dirty doing things. Given a solid educational foundation, I have found that those people tend to be successful. Others use their personality and people skills to get ahead. For many occupations, that's perfect. If you are in the sales field, personality has a bunch to do with your success, as long as you have sufficient knowledge of the product. Adding 10 years of hands of experience on top of a degree is a bit of the best of both worlds.

There's a saying that has a bit of truth... Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach (or they ask if you want fries with your burger). ?
 
TalismanRich said:
There's an obvious difference between having theoretical knowledge of a subject, and have practical hands on experience. That's why plumbers and electricians have apprentice programs. It's not enough to know that this wire is hot, this one is cold, and this one is ground. You also need to pull the wire through the conduit, connect the screws to the outlets, install the breakers, etc. You don't get that in a book.

Some people have an aptitude for the mechanical side. They like to get their hands dirty doing things. Given a solid educational foundation, I have found that those people tend to be successful. Others use their personality and people skills to get ahead. For many occupations, that's perfect. If you are in the sales field, personality has a bunch to do with your success, as long as you have sufficient knowledge of the product. Adding 10 years of hands of experience on top of a degree is a bit of the best of both worlds.

There's a saying that has a bit of truth... Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach (or they ask if you want fries with your burger). ?
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Definitely the way it is as far as trade workers go. Lots of ticketed welders that can’t weld, and machinists that can’t machine a part. It’s pretty bad when you are required to use a certified welder to assemble something when you have an experienced noncertified worker who can do the job properly. The engineers just want the paper and discount the experience.
 
As someone finally noted along the thread, how about asking what genres we are talking about before making recommendations?

If you want to sing opera (or even Broadway), without proper training you will get nowhere, and likely wreck your vocal cords in the process.
If you want to play classical piano, not only is the training intense, but it is lifelong. No home-trainees need apply.
If you want to play jazz and you don't have your chord theory down, along with real improvisational skills, you don't get to join a top-end band.
If you want to sing in a gospel choir, simply having big pipes isn't enough, you have to learn to sing 'within' the choir, the dynamics of it.

As for the snarky statement that "those who can't, teach" the late Professor Gunther Schuller is a worthy counter-argument. He was involved with just about every genre you can think of, playing, composing, arranging...and teaching. He was far from the only one, but he was a giant in his own way in what he contributed.

Kenny Aronoff, one of the hardest-hitting rock drummers out there, studied classical and Jazz in college. He has also been an Associate Professor of Percussion at Indiana University.

C.
 
Cosmic said:
As someone finally noted along the thread, how about asking what genres we are talking about before making recommendations?

If you want to sing opera (or even Broadway), without proper training you will get nowhere, and likely wreck your vocal cords in the process.
If you want to play classical piano, not only is the training intense, but it is lifelong. No home-trainees need apply.
If you want to play jazz and you don't have your chord theory down, along with real improvisational skills, you don't get to join a top-end band.
If you want to sing in a gospel choir, simply having big pipes isn't enough, you have to learn to sing 'within' the choir, the dynamics of it.

As for the snarky statement that "those who can't, teach" the late Professor Gunther Schuller is a worthy counter-argument. He was involved with just about every genre you can think of, playing, composing, arranging...and teaching. He was far from the only one, but he was a giant in his own way in what he contributed.

Kenny Aronoff, one of the hardest-hitting rock drummers out there, studied classical and Jazz in college. He has also been an Associate Professor of Percussion at Indiana University.

C.
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That comment was a bit tongue in cheek....

As for asking what genres we are talking about, the OP, vintagelatin, (who hasn't returned since the day after he signed up in 2019) only said

"I'm about to start college and i don't really know if it's worth to get into a music program and pay money to get a degree in producing music. I don't want to be a top music producer. I just want to make good music and upload it. Is it really necessary to go to some top school for music?

It sounded to me as if he didn't know what he wanted, but the statement about wanting to make good music and upload it, clearly points to someone that is more than likely looking at this as a hobby, not a professional musician looking to make a living doing it full time. He sounds to me like one of the candidates hoping for the college loan forgiveness deal... " I got myself a music degree and now have a $150,000 college loan, and all I can make is $10/hr as a barista. I can't make the payments... what can I do?"

Or as TAE said "He opted out of the college thing and is working at a restaurant making vintage Jello."


 
I'm not sure all colleges can do that? So many run courses as a way to generate money, and then stop them when their intake dries up, and fire the staff. A few have industry links - but by experience has been that the people who do really well, career wise, probably would have anyway? Education was my thing for quite a long time and while inititially very positive about it, I've now seen many decent colleges and univeristies degenerate badly here in the UK. I've got a lighting guy fresh from uni - he doesn't know how to coil cables, or program lighting desks properly and as a new self-employed person, has never heard of a URL Number, which in the UK are issued by His Majesty's Revenue and Customs and a pre-requesite for being able to issue invoices and not have the employer deduct tax. Something every university really should teach them? How to get paid!! The plus side is that he does have a degree. Not that it's worth anything really.
 
rob aylestone said:
he does have a degree. Not that it's worth anything really.
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I would say a degree offers an amount of leverage. It is still up to you to figure out how you want to sound. Then figure as much of that out as you can.

If you have the support, stay in school. It might be your safest move in the game..Use that time to discover.
 
Dont be tech savvy and world stupid..quickest way to fuck yourself..

Jumping into the deep end without contacts, is not recommended.
 
At best, they open doors - that's really their function. When a job ad generated hundreds of responses, you could just dump 70% if they didn't have degrees and still have a few decent people in the remaining 30%. Now job ads produce a trickle - so you speak to anyone who is interested enough to reply!
 
Cosmic said:
If you want to sing opera (or even Broadway), without proper training you will get nowhere, and likely wreck your vocal cords in the process.
If you want to play classical piano, not only is the training intense, but it is lifelong. No home-trainees need apply.
If you want to play jazz and you don't have your chord theory down, along with real improvisational skills, you don't get to join a top-end band.
If you want to sing in a gospel choir, simply having big pipes isn't enough, you have to learn to sing 'within' the choir, the dynamics of it.
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I totally disagree. Yall can do whatever you put yer mind into..We are more capable and better than anything that came before, or will be. A perfect blend of old and new.
 
rob aylestone said:
At best, they open doors - that's really their function.
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Yall make contacts and build references while you attend, correct? Network your world thing that starts happening? Not smoking pot, shooting each other in video games?

..and that is a big door that degree key opens..
 
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