Would you rather pay for cd duplication? Or build your own cd duplicator?

[Outlaws]

Okay illacov. You are selling this as a mixtape/bootleg and people will know that. Correct? Then burn away. I still don't know about $8.00, but maybe on the east coast things are more exspensive, but over here, $5.00 is more in the neighborhood. Hell, I have Bootleg CD for sale on my site. But whatever you do, trust me or not, don't skimp on the CDRs. Shitty CDRs won't play no matter how you burn them.

 

[kylen]

Holy Cow illacov - how'd you get this swarm of hornets stirred up - and a fist fight over Behringer to boot !

Anyway - seems to be a lot of good/interesting info in your thread here. I like Outlaws stuff - I grew up in a Lithographer family although I don't do it myself

You seem to want to do a CDR run - that might be ok but I'm not in a position to know, I do one-offs myself but I had to get a better burner than the one that came in the computer cause they wouldn't play everywhere.

Would you guarantee the pressing though and accept returns and exchanges ? Don't forget to budget for that if you do!

Good Luck !
kylen

 

[starch]

I do recording and mixing, and I decided to add the ability to do small-run duplication to my company to give clients more options. I think small-run duplication has its place, but is never meant to replace professional printing. I have one of those 'robotic' cd burners/printers, a high res laser printer, and do all the packaging,assembly, shrinkwrapping etc. It has worked great for bands wanting around 100-300 cd's quickly. Typically bands will use the cds I make for them to sell at concerts, and make $5-$10 each over what I charge them($2.75 ea) Then once they have enough money from those sales I recommend to them places to have there cd pressed and printed.

However, I will always tell those I work for that if they are planning on doing over 300 at once to consider using a printing facility from the start as they will prob save a lot of money. But if you look you will find that even the high-end companies offer cdr duplication.

All this just to say there is a place for small-run cdr duplication and a lot of people are using it. But it is definitely a means to a better end and if you have goals at all with your music, should not be the end itself.

 

[Jhae]

Re: NOW WE'RE TALKING!!

You actually arent making personal biased statements I love it!


My whole thing is this

I dont work alone man...my staff is well over 20 people deep and we have 3 bases of operation Syracuse, NY being the mainland and the other two being satellite centers but also well staffed satellites.

Between those 3 locations each area has the same capabilities as home base to duplicate cds.

So if i can get a good 300 discs burnt in 36 hours and this is while im selling cds all the while...then it shouldnt be a big problem especially since we talkin maybe 20 30 dollars shipping over night.

and this is 2400 dollars merchandise that we spending maybe 138 bucks USD to get into the salesmans hands from purchase of materials, plus manufacture and shipping in 36 hours or less. Thats not a bad prospect man.

The real purpose of going city to city is for promotions...yeah the sales too..but i know more people out in the west coast that have been feeling the Mt. Olympus Label for the last two years so im going out there to get exposure and airplay for the company as well as getting the other 12 acts some exposure too since some of them appear on my album.

BTW My singles are getting well over 30 hits a day, one of em topped out at 56 listens and this is repeat listens.

I wish some of you guys would actually READ a magazine about 50 cent and how he got signed before you shit on the concept of selling cdrs.

50 cent grossed 5 figures or more off one of his mixtapes and they werent pressed cds and they didnt sent the fuckin jacket to a printer. What needs to be understood is that there is a TON of grassroots money on the streets of the United States and the industry is losing out on this money because they dont cater to this crowd...this is why they are having a problem with bootlegging..people dont want to pay for cds when they cost x amount of dollars etc...me i dont care about bootlegging...once i earn my returns you can copy that album all you want either way that gets me listened to by more people which also means more people will be on the lookout for me next time around...if you're getting bootlegged smile with a frown..Nobody corny gets bootlegged.
It must be noted that 50 was still a unknown except to the underground circuit and he definately wouldnt have gotten signed following all these ideaologies that ive seen so far from some of the people on this forum..thank god it wasnt in those same peoples hands if he was gonna sell a cd or not.

But yes ive already worked out the supply pipeline for that whole scenario

But you did kind of let the cat out of the bag on the duplication thing on the road

We're in the process of renting an RV

Complete with a studio on board and a duplicator 1 to 7 duplicator.

Thats right burn on the road and get shipments under emergency situations.

But maybe that might cover the question you asked. Yes DIY is time consuming but im not even touching a dollar in expenses in my process yet.. I could understand if it cost me a 1.50 to produce one cd but thats not the case. I kind of like the 1500 % markup However 700 % aint bad either but thats still not 2 dollars a disc.

Maybe when we need a thousand cds in 24 hours or more then we might need a pressing house but thats also assuming that we dont have the equipment to do that kind of volume by ourselves by then

Quick aside the professional version of Nero lets you handle over 24 simultaneous CD Burners!...WOW!
With 24 , 48x burners thats 24 discs in 2 minutes 45 seconds. Thats insane man insane!

Peace
Illa

This guy speaks the truth!

 

[Jhae]

I'm about to do the same thing in a few months...Except this cd that I will be releasing will be for free, and for promo use only. I plan on distributing around 2000 cd's in one day, so I have some questions.

First and foremost what's the highest quality yet cheapest CDR? I've seen some places that have CDR's for .25 cents a pop in a package of 100. So roughly 25 bucks... However, in my experince, not all CD-R's are made the same. Some are total crap, while some are great.

Is there a big difference between AUDIO CD-R's and DATA CD-R's? I noticed that the ones that are intended for audio are somewhat higher in price than the data ones even though both can be used to play burned music.

Secondly, should I use adhesive labels, or try to get the title of the CD printed directly on the CDR?

Lastly, what's the best burner out there for the buck? You know the most reliable yet fastest. Also keeping in mind that I'm not turning a profit so this all comes at a loss to me. Along with that is Nero definitely the burning utility to go with?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Those "music-only" CD-Rs should be avoided unless you're using the consumer gear that requires them.

The CD-Rs have the Copy-bit pre-burned to ON so that digital copies (via consumer gear) is not possible.

Pro gear usually has settings allowing you to ignore the copy-bit settings, so it may not be a problem. But I hate the whole sneakiness of the tactic on the part of the RIAA and the CD-R manufacturers of slipping this "feature" in and not providing adequate info about it.

 

[glynb]

No to sticky labels.

"Secondly, should I use adhesive labels, or try to get the title of the CD printed directly on the CDR? "

Sticky labels can make the CD spin slightly off centre risking jumps. Also in car stereos they can get very hot and the lables can start to warp and move, causing problems. So get them printed directly on the CD.

Personaly when I do my album (hopefuly later this year) I'l be using a company to produce the whole package CD, CD- printing, all for one price. There are enough headaches in producing your music without worrying about duplicating the CDs as well! Package prices are coming down all the time now.

Good luck.

 

[Jhae]

Re: No to sticky labels.

"Secondly, should I use adhesive labels, or try to get the title of the CD printed directly on the CDR? "

Sticky labels can make the CD spin slightly off centre risking jumps. Also in car stereos they can get very hot and the lables can start to warp and move, causing problems. So get them printed directly on the CD.

Personaly when I do my album (hopefuly later this year) I'l be using a company to produce the whole package CD, CD- printing, all for one price. There are enough headaches in producing your music without worrying about duplicating the CDs as well! Package prices are coming down all the time now.

Good luck.

Yea I'd definitely do that if I was making a profit off of the cd, but this is just for free, so I can't afford that big of a loss. Good advice on the lables though, I'll definitely look into getting the info printed on instead of a label.

 

[Jhae]

Those "music-only" CD-Rs should be avoided unless you're using the consumer gear that requires them.

The CD-Rs have the Copy-bit pre-burned to ON so that digital copies (via consumer gear) is not possible.

Pro gear usually has settings allowing you to ignore the copy-bit settings, so it may not be a problem. But I hate the whole sneakiness of the tactic on the part of the RIAA and the CD-R manufacturers of slipping this "feature" in and not providing adequate info about it.

Odd...Hmm, I was asking because I've used both, and it seems like the CD-R's intended for Audio give me higher quality, sound-wise. They also seem to be more reliable when playing them. Just an observation, I don't thow if this was just a coincidence or not.

 

[ChristopherM]

How in the world are you going to burn 2000 CDRs? Must be planning on spending a little time on this project, eh?

Even if you manage to do the whole task in one minute, including accounting for labels and switching discs in the burner, you're looking at over thirty-three hours of burning time!

Even with four burners and four people, you're going to put in more than an eight-hour day of it!

That's dedication, man!

Anyway, stay away from the 25 cent CDRs, because the coatings tend to be fragile and flake away (carrying your music with the flakes). Also, sometimes writing on the cheapies will affect the playback. The only way to really protect it is to put a sticky label on it, and you've already read what THAT can do.

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Odd...Hmm, I was asking because I've used both, and it seems like the CD-R's intended for Audio give me higher quality, sound-wise.

Nonsense... (or coincidence)... this is DIGITAL DATA STORAGE, not analog audio. Data is data, so unless the media is damaged, the data will be the same.

Now -- what CAN be different is a player's error correction system from one CD player to another.

If there are errors in the media, the player's error correction will kick in, and the error correction scheme can react differently on different players, resulting in the same CD sounding different.

Also, differences in the D/A converters between units will account for a difference in sound.

In short, it's not the media that causes the difference in sound, it's the player handling the media that's creating the difference!

 

[Jhae]

Nonsense... (or coincidence)... this is DIGITAL DATA STORAGE, not analog audio. Data is data, so unless the media is damaged, the data will be the same.

Now -- what CAN be different is a player's error correction system from one CD player to another.

If there are errors in the media, the player's error correction will kick in, and the error correction scheme can react differently on different players, resulting in the same CD sounding different.

Also, differences in the D/A converters between units will account for a difference in sound.

In short, it's not the media that causes the difference in sound, it's the player handling the media that's creating the difference!

Okay, I don't doubt anything you say. I'm just interested to know why said AUDIO CD-R's are usually 10 bucks higher than a pack of data? I'm thinking there must be some quality difference hence the price spike... What you say undoubtedly makes sense, I'm pretty well versed in the whole concept of "data is data" but it still doesn't make much sense for there to be a market for Audio CD-R's, when there is no difference besides a parity bit or whatever at the begining of the CD. Do you understand where I'm coming from?

Also, yes I have the resources to burn 2000 CD's rather quickly. A couple of burner towers. And yes i do have dedication, or else I wouldn't even embark on such an endeavor. I will do whatever it takes to be heard, and if this is the only way that's feasible at the time, I'm all for it!

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Ah - that's second bit of nastiness on the part of the audio CD-Rs.... and the RIAA has their paws in it.... literally!

The additional cost is the price of the RIAA trying to gouge consumers for their perceived loss due to illegal copying. They get a portion of the sales of these music-only CD-Rs.

 

[Jhae]

Ah - that's second bit of nastiness on the part of the audio CD-Rs.... and the RIAA has their paws in it.... literally!

The additional cost is the price of the RIAA trying to gouge consumers for their perceived loss due to illegal copying. They get a portion of the sales of these audio-only CD-Rs.

Really? Hahaha! that's messed up I never knew that... Okay, everything makes sense now... Yeah I could see the RIAA doing something like that to try to recoup loses. So they pray on the ignorance of consumers (me before I read this thread) and try to make their money back. Hmm, thanks for enlightening me. I'll make sure to avoid said CD'Rs....

 

[illacov]

THE THREAD LIVES AGAIN!!

Wow i leave this shit alone for almost 2 weeks and it comes back to life on its own

Damn, Jhae if you have duplication towers you should be renting your services out.

Somebody needs those services in your area.

I reality...the only way im gonna start using the whole pressed cd concept is when the price goes under a dollar for everthing.

When it hits a GOOD 85 cents or less per cd is when ill do it. And even then im gonna be scheming on how to get my hands on the equipment to do this myself

So what i got ambition

isnt that what business is about??

Peace
Illacov

 

[Jhae]

Re: THE THREAD LIVES AGAIN!!

Wow i leave this shit alone for almost 2 weeks and it comes back to life on its own

Damn, Jhae if you have duplication towers you should be renting your services out.

Somebody needs those services in your area.

I reality...the only way im gonna start using the whole pressed cd concept is when the price goes under a dollar for everthing.

When it hits a GOOD 85 cents or less per cd is when ill do it. And even then im gonna be scheming on how to get my hands on the equipment to do this myself

So what i got ambition

isnt that what business is about??

Peace
Illacov

L yes... so yer deep in the game up at Syracuse? Yeah we're dropping our first tape this may.. Should be an experince. You got any tips or tricks for a newbie?

 

[glynb]

Hmmm, will it really be so much cheaper?

Ok so you have duplication facilities and are prepared to invest the time. Fair enough.

We've established you're gonna get the CD's printed somehow rather than use labels? So there's extra cost, even if you come up with a way of doing it on a home printer?

Presumably, if you want to impress people (the whole point of the project) you'll need to get some art work done and printed up? So you'll maybe be going to a printer separately to get that done which will be more expensive than if you got it done together with the CD duplication as a package deal?

Yes, no doubt you can save a bit, but you'll probably save less than you think and you've got much more hassle to end up with maybe as not a professional loking product in the end?

What do you intend to do with the 2000 copies? We've established you'll not be selling them? So I assume you'll be giving them away at gigs, sending them to 'important' people in the biz, magazines, and A&R depts, on-line reviewers etc. So do you really need so many? Maybe by more carfeul targetting of say 500-1000 you could achieve more than the 'scatter gun' approach of giving them out to all and sundry?

I haven't checked but I'm sure you could get the whole packe done by someone for around a $1 a piece (maybe I'm out on that), but somewhere around that mark. So for around $1000 it's all done for you.


Just a few thoughts to chew over, I'm not saying you're wrong, but need to consider everything carefully.

I have a different perspective as I have a day job and money coming in!!!

 

[illacov]

I wish i could find EVERYTHING for a dollar

I have yet to find one service on the web that prints cds off glass masters, prints you a full color insert, prints on the disc and then gives you clear/clear jewel case for $1.

If you know of ANY place that does this where i wont have to order 5000 discs and its not CDRS then holla at me.

In the meantime.

Tip number one

You can make a killing saving money on your covers by going to a large metropolitan area and seeing what the printers quote you.

The market is much more competitive and their prices therefore will be lower for good quality product.

Best price i heard so far

was
$150 for double sided full color insert for the cd.. the quantity you receive is 5000 units. so 5000 full color inserts for 150 USD.

3 cents a copy people...thats the fuckin price of a piece of paper per insert.

But i dont give a damn....

Tip two

Buy in bulk if at all possible...especially cdrs.

If you can find a deal or a wholesale merchandiser like Sams..see if they have bulk rates.

Right now Sams sells Verbatim cdrs 52x speed...quantity of 100 for 22 dollars even. thats 22 cents a cdr before taxes. Jewel cases at sams at 10 dollars for 100..so 10 cents a jewel case and then if you figure the inserts are 3 cents a copy..

total is 35 cents expenses per piece of merchandise.

If the cd sells for 8 bucks thats a 2300% margin of profit. Compared to 2 dollars or more per piece of merchandis going to a pressing house. This will however appease the pagan gods of professional music. Have fun when you actually meet them.

Another tip i will give you

If your legit with your business...like your label is a sole proprietorship...go corporate or LLC. Depending on your state it shouldnt be that expensive to do.

The reason being you have to risk your credit to finance the company and if you got bad credit you dont want it tied to your business. Corporate means you and the company are two separate entities.

Also...business credits and perks are the bomb. Imagine having a corporate account with Enterprise and all you gotta do is walk in the door with a card swipe and pick your vehicle?

Thats business credit for you...expense accounts corporate insurance for your vehicles...accounts with Sprint PCS...all those wonderful things.

Either way if you can DO IT.

Plus if you can get your hands on a resellers certificate..you can buy shit even cheaper from the distributors..like the blank cdrs and jewel cases and all that wonderful stuff.

Peace
Illacov

BTW check out the labels site

Its under construction but you can check out the snippets from my new album Victors Circle

http://mtolympusrecords.bravehost.com/illumination.html

Check it out !

 

[Jhae]

$150 for double sided full color insert for the cd.. the quantity you receive is 5000 units. so 5000 full color inserts for 150 USD? Damn that's pretty cheap...


Dude holla at me,

yahoo: jhaepapi
aim: ion jd
msn: rabiddoberman2k1@yahoo.com

when you get a chance... BTW I peeped your material, it was nice, mos def!

 

[glynb]

Well OK maybe I was a bit optimistic with my $1 per CD with artwork. I found this one though...

http://www.nutunes.com./specials.cd.htm

who seem to come pretty close. I have not used them myself, maybe they are crap maybe they are good, but at that price it's worth thinking about. If I found this one maybe there are others at a similar price?

Still not as cheep as doing it yourself, but less hassle.