Would you rather pay for cd duplication? Or build your own cd duplicator?

  • Thread starter Thread starter illacov
  • Start date Start date
I

illacov

Member
Im just taking a brief poll but also opening the floor...

I was going to get my cd duplicated, thus avoiding the cdr issue altogether but it doesnt seem cost effective compared to building my own cd duplicator and just burning red book cdrs.

Whats everybodys take on this?

I have a four bay computer case, one of them is already occupied by a 48 x cd burner but im replacing it with another cd burner.

So what im gonna do is have four burners in my computer and run them simultaneously from nero at 52x.

My biggest issues really is the printing of the booklets. I know of a few printers that you can buy and damn near print booklets that would fool most people and they cost less than 600 dollars, its the paper and the ink thats a bitch.

But anyways whats everybodys take???

Im sure the flames will lick on this one
:)
Peace
Illa
 
oh yeah btw

4 cd burners from the brands ive been looking it will cost between 120 to 250 dollars depending on the brand.

How does this effect your opinion??


Peace
Illa
 
As far as Nero Burn - I might be mistaken but I think you can only run 2 burners at one time with Nero. I read somewhere you could "purchase" optional software for the Nero to burn more than 2 at a time but it was a ridiculous price like $350 for each one (just the software). I think the info was on their website. If so, I'm sure someone out there somewhere has software to run 4 burners at a time. I'd be interested in that too.

DD
 
Get the booklet printed with real ink, on a real press, that uses real sheets of metal.

I don't know about booklets, but at a printshop I used to work at, you could get a 8.5" x 11" one color ($20+/- each extra) for about $180 for a thousand prints...and more for a lot less from there on. My boss wouldn't even charge for cutting it down when you are dealing with that little. Folding might cost a bit, but if you find a place that is competent and know how to use their machine, it should look good and not cost too much.

Of course that $180 is for one side, one color...you need another plate for the other side.

I would say that a well printed one color CD cover or booklet will look better than a full color cheapo laser printer. You could spend 2 grand on a color laser printer and just be getting to the quality ones.

Here is a design tip for maximum effect with minimal cost......

Find a nice deep (dark) Pantone color (pick it off the booklet, not the computer screen) and use it instead of black if printing onto white paper. That way you can have the deep areas, a nice half tone lighter area and a contrasting white. If you use a straight up greay scale method, it won't work quite the same, but this way you will have (example of Blue) a half tone lighter Blue for the main imagery, the full tone of the initial Pantone color for a dark Blue for accents, and the White (preferably gloss) paper for contrast.

You really have to mess around a bit to get what I am getting at. Sorry if it is over your head since most people aren't up on the printing side of this. :D
 
So are you considering using multipul cd pc burners over a duplicator?
 
There is a huge difference between burning a CD and pressing a CD from a glass master - mostly in terms of CD-player compatibility, especially with older players.
 
I would personally rather pay for it in the short run.

at about $1 per CD (1000 copies) with 4 page insert, barcode and shrinkwrap, I dont think it can be beat, plus it looks more professional.
 
I sthis for a demo, or to put in stores? I'm guessing stores since you want a barcode...If its for a demo avoid the shrinkwrap though... Also, how would you press redbook CD's at your home? That's done on a professional plant, you can't burn "real" cd's with consumer cd burners, they have to be pressed.
 
Heres what I've read

what ive read is that red book cds are a standard determined by how the cd is burned not simply by the process in which its burned. In terms of track listing space between tracks etc...

Just like orange book or blue book i forget which, has something to do with having an enhanced cd but i never saw anything about it requiring you to burn it at a pressing plant off of a glass master.

My opinions on pressing plants are that they are the fastest most reliable method of pressing cds with a quick turn around, especially since they can be your all in one place to burn your album.

But also the most expensive.

Compared to the duplication methods that are available i have yet to see anything that involves duplication that you or I could purchase that involves glass masters...meaning the gear that could be bought that you could duplicate cds on.

Compared to the pressing process you dont end up with the exact same results but we also arent talking cheapo crap results either.

In the mixtape realm and concert cds realm...it wouldnt be cost effective to get cds pressed at a plant if you're not going primarily retail with them and even then the consignment percentages arent always in your favor.

However if you sell city to city...one can make a killin sellin burnt copies of your album...but it would take forever to get your stuff duplicated if you only have access to one or two cd burners but four running parallel on Nero at 52x is sheer heaven especially if the burners only cost between 30 and 50 dollars.

Once you absorb the cost of buying the equipment to make your booklets (like a good 6 color printer and a place to duplicate your stuff) you make a good deal of money off your album...

like at least 30 cents expenses per copy compared to at least 1.00 thats a good split.

Peace
Illa
 
Typical of what I've seen in previous posts of yours, you only read what you want to believe.... you are ignoring the fact that a pressed CD differs from a burned CD in terms of compatibility with CD players.

If you intend on selling it to the public, they need to be pressed or you risk a lot of returns when people can't play them on their players.
 
I was going to mention the capatability thing, but I was slightly confused as to this whole "RedBook" thing...I didn't know if the compatability had risen or somehting. But anyways.....

There are no good color printers.

But you said 6 color? Are we talking a print press or laser printer? If you want to get a print press, then let me know, I got some stuff I could use done. :D



But as for the $0.30 on the dollar. No. That is not even possible. You will have garbage if you cut that many corners doing it at home. Some things just have to be farmed out. I am fully into the DIY thing, but I still respect that a $6k-$20k press will blow any laser printer out of the water.


By the way, I assume you are talking about a computer printer that is 6 colors. Just because it says 6 color doesn't make it good. You can tell when something is printed off a computer. It looks like crap no matter what. If you had a $2-5k printer, you could pass it off possibly, but the paper cost of glossy laser paper is outrageous.



If you wanna actually sell you CD, then just suck it up and go to a printer and duplication house.
 
Outlaws said:


If you wanna actually sell you CD, then just suck it up and go to a printer and duplication house.
Click to expand...

yOu're right about that one. Especially with the whole mp3 hysteria the hard copy really has to have some kind of extra value, it really looks more amateuristic if you printed and duplicated yourself, no matter how good your job was.
 
Bear dont take it the wrong way

Im not on it like that with you about this

it was just a simple question im glad you guys have your resources straight and you are correct

however i know people that have cut these corners you are referring to and still make a good deal of money without having people come back to them complaining that their cds dont work

Quick aside

What if you use a high quality cd burner
like a plextor?


a dollar a disc is still a very good split for the profits you make off your albums

and no i have read that getting your cd pressed by a house is a good move...the problem is that unless you go with the cream of the crop you run the risk of people burning cdrs for you and printing the booklets with a printer...just my 2 cents

a website dont make you legit by far.

We've all learned that over time

Thanks for the input though

who do you recommend for mass pressing??

and whats the best rates you've ever seen?

yes im acting like you know what you're talking about a major "step forward" for me hopefully you'll react accordingly

Peace
Illacov
 
Re: Bear dont take it the wrong way

illacov said:
...the problem is that unless you go with the cream of the crop you run the risk of people burning cdrs for you and printing the booklets with a printer...
Click to expand...

You ask for a tour of the factory. If they say no, they have somehting to hide. Any good business will show you around because that makes for clients rather than customers. (Corporations excluded for time constraints)


And don't get you booklet printed at the same place. Got to a print shop and again, ask for a tour.




illacov said:
who do you recommend for mass pressing??
Click to expand...

I doubt yours will be called "mass pressing"............don't use that word when you go into the printshop, they will just laugh..........a mass pressing in upwards of 50,000 +/- to a million +.
 
also keep in mind that the time you spend putting together the CD DIY (burning, printing, cutting, inserting etc) could be better spent actually selling the CD.
 
Whos gonna laugh at $

If you have a need for between 30 and 50 thousand cds why would you laugh at me for asking the rates on that?

Just an honest question.

One would think however that the higher the number of cds pressed the rate would drop but so far what ive seen is that its a dollar even at the best rate but no matter if you burn 50 thousand or 1200 its the same rate which is cool for short runs but what about larger numbers.

Anyways

is there anyone who thinks that buying or building a duplicator is a good idea at all??

After all the thread is really about duplicators too besides paying for duplication.

Why is there a market for these things if they arent gonna give out good results to people in our field??

just asking

Peace
illa
 
Oky now we know you are just talkin'. If you had a need for 50,000 CD you wouldn't even consider burning them yourself. If you have ever tried to sit down and burn a 100 CDs you would know that it is an impossible feat. No man on this earth has enough patience for fifty thousand.
 
i haven't looked for a while, but a couple months ago nycd.com offered to do 1000 whatever the largest number of colors you can get was with a 4 page insert, color on both sides and a clear tray with a color insert and barcode for 1250.00

prices may have already dropped by now though and you can get a bid war going. i mean like a 2 years ago for a thousand cds it was still about 1500 bucks or so and one of my teachers got a bid war going between 2 printers and got it down to i think 1250 or 1300.

actually the rate for 1000 cd's and for 50,000 cd's will be dramatically different.
and when i was looking, once you got up to about 50,000 cds, the price per cd was about 50 to 60 cents a piece.

and i dont think you'll save money by burning the cds and having them printed. you said 600 bucks for the printing. then you have another hundred or so for the jewel cases, then you have the actual cost of cd's. i haven't bought cd's for a while, but i imagine if you bought relatively good quality cd's, it's going to cost you 20 to 30 bucks per hundred. so that's another 200 bucks at least.

so you've got 600 bucks in printing, then 200 bucks in cd's, then at least 100 bucks in jewel cases, but i think probably more.

that's 800. that's not that much. but i dont remember who said this, but someone a little earlier in this thread said that 1000 cd's would run about 1000's bucks.

and not to mention, if you want a barcode, professional printers will normally let you piggy back on theirs for free. if you did it yourself, you would have to pay something like 800 bucks to get your company registered......which is a 1 time thing, so it may be worth it if you plan on doing a lot of releases.......plus the programs to create the barcode and when i was looking at those they were running in the 2-300 dollar range.

plus doing it yourself, you risk having duds that you have to pay for. having the cd's printed professionally, you can complain to the company and if not get some money back, at least credit on your next order. imagine a customer coming back and telling you that their cd didn't work or in my friends case......he had someone return a cd because they thought they were paying for a professionally printed cd and it was a burned cd.

there was more i wanted to say, but i just got a phone call and can't remember now.

so i mean is it really worth it to cut corners? i personally dont think so, but you may still think it's a good idea.
 
Its not necessarily to cut corners

This is a two part answer

but if you have a professional duplicator or duplicators

burning thousands of cds isnt such a feat when you think that most pro level duplicators are automated or robotic in nature.

ive seen a good deal of small to mid level companies use cdrs and not have the compatibility problems that are being discussed.

Older players yes thats a issue but how far back are we discussing?

In two years time is that still going to be a mainstream issue for cdrs?

I remember when cdrs first came out that was the big ordeal but then companies like plextor had the best error free rates on their burned cds so you had a higher probability of no complaints.

Alot of that technology that was strictly in plextors is now in most burners cheaply built or not.

Its not just talk...if you could burn a good 1200 cds a hour why would you NOT spend a good 50 plus hours and burn that many cds if you were going to sell them on advance orders or on incidentals or for concerts?

This especially is an issue if you need promotional cds, because a cd with two tracks or 4 tracks is gonna cost you just as much as full length album...You dont need to give djs a full length to get your single on the air this wouldnt be realistic.

as for donkeystyles thing lets break down cost really quick

22 bucks gets you a good 100 cdrs good quality by most standards...no smart buy bs or anything like that

100 jewel cases is 10 bucks from Maxell.

Labeling is basically 20 dollars for 100 cd labels...
at this point if you have a good printer for the booklet your real expense is ink and paper and thats your call what to use.

Your talking 52 cents a disc plus the price of ink and paper spread out over a 100 cds..Ill chalk the ink at 5 cents a disc and paper well thats not even funny but ill venture another 7 cents

we'll round that to 60 cents a disc.

Im still not sold on this cadre of people you're referring to that actually inspect the resolution of underground album covers. It would be an issue if the cover was unreadable or blurred but obviously nobody would release a product that would manifest those qualities on purpose. No im not just reading what i want to read...have you read into what im reading?? Your speaking from a level I dont operate on you want to call that "professional" thats cool with me, I never said i was professional but last time i checked im not selling cds to professional listeners im marketing to people that like Independant music and they have a better grip on reality than men suits seem to manifest.

Anyways so far im seeing that you guys dont think its worth it...i would like to see more input from different people on the thread though.

Just to make a little information available

1 - 7 cdr controller $299

case $40

cdr burner between 30 and 75 dollars

cheapest total cost is 550 dollars 865 is the most expensive

output is 146 discs per hour with this method.

Peace
Illa
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top