Would you do analog recording ?

[grimtraveller]

Yeah, that it is "horrible". You are the first person I have ever seen post something that damning of analog tape. Probably suitable for a discussion, but in a newbie forum? Really?

If anyone is to blame for that, it should be me because I put it in the newbie forum. And I did so very deliberately because I thought it could be a way for newcomers to get involved.
John only stated his opinion which is what a good discussion should bring. And in a way, his statement brought about reaction from Miroslav which elicited responses that have kept this thread moving here and there.
It's been good fun.

 

[mdainsd]

Jesusgreg . get off your high horse and read the posts. I have both and do both. I have never dogged digital on the forum. Nor have I ever tried to convert someone from one to the other. I have offed my opinion that digital has made fore some very lazy musicians and producers, but that in no way is a dig on digital itself. I still maintain that opinion. As to my sig, its humor greg.

 

[Greg_L]

Jesusgreg . get off your high horse and read the posts. I have both and do both. I have never dogged digital on the forum. Nor have I ever tried to convert someone from one to the other. I have offed my opinion that digital has made fore some very lazy musicians and producers, but that in no way is a dig on digital itself. I still maintain that opinion. As to my sig, its humor greg.

You're being a hypocrite. Why is your opinion okay in the fragile ego newbie section, but that Willet guy's isn't? You can dog on actual people, calling them lazy and such, but he can't say anything about tape? Tape is an inanimate object. Who's he offending? Besides you? If I'm on a high horse, I'm still having to look up to see yours.

 

[miroslav]

John only stated his opinion which is what a good discussion should bring. And in a way, his statement brought about reaction from Miroslav which elicited responses that have kept this thread moving here and there.
It's been good fun.

OK....then let's keep the fun going!



I get John's point of view when it's specific, not global --- classical music recording prefers gear transparency/neutrality, and there is no desire for tape "color/saturation/etc"....not to mention the need to record long pieces that go well beyond the 30 minutes you might get out of a tape reel, and/or have to splice between two decks...etc.
I get Jay's point of view --- low budget clients have no real desire for the added cost of tape.
I get gecko's point of view --- limited budget client recording has a need for efficiency and simplicity.

What I don't get are the more extreme/direct objections from people: 1.) who have never recorded to any tape.... or 2.) who have at best, used some porta-studio tape rig 20 years ago and are basing their entire tape experience on that... or 3.) who still like to use a lot of analog gear (with all it's imperfections), but have some non-specific issue with tape.

Let's go back to Grim's OP, and his scenario - "...analog recorders if they were freely available?"....
...though now I'm not sure if Grim just means "plentiful, readily available".... or "free".

If we assume for a moment that he means "free", and we take the up-front cost of a serious 2" 24-track tape deck out of the equation...for those of you who fall into 1.), 2.) and 3.)...what exactly are your objections then to tape recording...?
"Too complicated to use"...."no place to put a 2" deck in my bedroom"...."don't want buy the expensive reels of tape"..."I'm not good with electronic test/maintenance gear"....what is it?

Let's make it even more "FREE"...you get the 2" deck, tons of free reels, and a free tech to do the calibration and maintenance.....so what is it about tape that is "bad"....?

Like I said earlier....without the majority of folks qualifying their perspectives and their existing hands-on experience with tape recording (or lack of), there's little to be gleaned from their pro/con answers.
Some have given specifics, and those answers provide room for discussion....others just do the yes/no thing with vague alluding to why.

Also....since we've gotten very specific talking about *recorders* and not analog recording as a whole.....you do have the ability to *record* to tape at mixdown too. People still do that using a DAW up front, then OTB and record to a 2-track.
Is that part of this "tape recorder* discussion or just the front-end multi-track stage?
One more reason why I was looking at the whole "analog recording" process rather than just one piece of equipment.

 

[miroslav]

.... but he can't say anything about tape? Tape is an inanimate object. Who's he offending?

It's not that Greg...it's that John's perspective was tossed out in a more global way. I can see if he said tape recording for pristine classical music is a horrible solution.....but to just say tape recording is "horrible", was/is not accurate....'cuz the vast amounts of existing tape-recorded music is a testament to tape's ability to sound really, really good in the right situation and environment and for the right kind of music.

That's why I also balk at negative tape recording views when they stem from no experience or from experiences based on a cassette porta-studio or some consumer-grade 4-track reel from the '70s.
You can't apply a global view to a more serious tape recording rig based on that...or just based on a specific scenario, like recording classical music. There are many scenarios and music styles that appreciate tape and sound great with it.

 

[Greg_L]

Who are you talking about specifically? Go ahead, say it.

 

[miroslav]

In the post above yours...I was responding to you (I said "Greg") with the stuff about John's comments.

AFA my overall questions and comments about tape users and non-tape users....I was talking about anyone it applies to in this thread or that will come to this thread.
There was/is no "one" person, since the questions/comments detailed 3 different scenarios that can apply to lots of people.
Feel free to respond to the scenario that you think applies to you....or you don't have to respond....
...but they are legitimate questions and comments.
This thread has a lot variety of personal experiences....it's kinda hard to pin it all on any one person.

 

[Greg_L]

But why does anyone have to explain their opinions? I get it, you use both, therefore you feel that you are some authority on the matter. But really, why do you care what anyone else thinks about it? Use your tape. No one is trying to stop you. It seems like you're taking the anti-tape sentiment personally. It's not a big deal if someone thinks differently from you.

 

[miroslav]

If we don't discuss....then you might as well just have it be a closed poll with no other responses.

***************
WOULD YOU USE TAPE?

YES-

NO-
***************

I think though, the thread was/is more about the discussion.

AFA being an "authority" on tape, not really, but I am a serious tape user, so when I hear misguided opinions from people who don't use tape or have only dabbled a bit 20 years ago....I'm going to comment.
You seem to have a problem with that...?
Are you going to now argue about why people are posting in this thread....or do you want to talk about tape use?

If they can't explain their opinon....then why give it?

 

[Greg_L]

If we don't discuss....then you might as well just have it be a closed poll with no responses.

***************
WOULD YOU USE TAPE?

YES-

NO-
***************

I think though, the thread was/is more about the discussion.

AFA being an "authority" on tape, not really, but I am a serious tape user, so when I hear misguided opinions from people who don't use tape or have only dabbled a bit 20 years ago....I'm going to comment.
You seem to have a problem with that...?

If they can't explain their opinon....then why give it?

Slow down. Why are their opinions misguided? Why does everyone have to fit your criteria? The one guy said he used to use tape and now prefers not to because he thinks it's horrible. That's not a misguided opinion. I think you fell into the trap of missing the implied "IMO". Pretty common snafu around here that everyone steps in every now and then. And why do you actually want their opinions explained? Are you open to having your mind changed? I think not, so I suspect your motives lie elsewhere. There already has been lots of discussion. What more do you need?

I don't have a problem with the discussion, as stupid as it may be, I'm just wanting you to come clean and cut to the chase without all the usual dancing around and pulling your punches. Say what you actually mean for once. Go out on a limb instead of always trying to play it safe. And don't gte it twisted - I'm not against you here, I don't care how you record or how anyone records anything.

 

[miroslav]

I covered John, Jay and Gecko....I was referring to the other folks, and I outlined three scenarios.

Not sure what "chase" you want me to cut to....I think you want to make this about you....but it's about ALL the people that fall into the three scenarios. Maybe if they had basis in their opinions, they would say so...if not, maybe they might change their minds.....though I doubt you would.

Like I said, if you fall into one of the three scenarios, and want to respond to my questions...fine, or don't...otherwise you are now trying to argue about the thread, rather than about the topic in the thread.

 

[Greg_L]

No, I don't want it to be about me because I couldn't care less about what you or anyone else thinks about my opinion. It's my opinion and I don't have to validate it. I'm not understanding why you care so deeply. That's all. You're taking this personally. Like it's a personal attack on you that someone would dare not give a shit about tape. It really isn't that way. If you think these mystery unnamed people are misguided, ignorant, stupid, or just plain wrong, does it really affect you? Why?

 

[grimtraveller]

It's not that Greg...it's that John's perspective was tossed out in a more global way. I can see if he said tape recording for pristine classical music is a horrible solution.....but to just say tape recording is "horrible", was/is not accurate....'cuz the vast amounts of existing tape-recorded music is a testament to tape's ability to sound really, really good in the right situation and environment and for the right kind of music.

But for him, it was horrible. That gave an insight into to why he hasn't recorded with tape since 1983 and wouldn't go back to it.
I have never found tape horrible. Probably 98%, if not more, of all the stuff I listen to was tracked to tape. On a regular basis ever since I was about 13, I've endured someone, somewhere denigrating something I dig musically. Then after I got over that, I finally got it ~ it was their feeling. At best, someone elses's dislike of something I like gives me the opportunity to say I like it and why ~ if I choose to take the opportunity. I learned a long time ago that if an opinionated person like Greg or Muttley or yourself has nothing but disdain for something I like, not only does it not prevent me from still digging it, I can't even be concerned if it stops someone else from digging it because it makes no difference to my existence.
John thinks tape is horrible. He's right. I think it isn't. I'm right.
Such is the beauty of being able to think for oneself.

 

[miroslav]

No, I don't want it to be about me because I couldn't care less about what you or anyone else thinks about my opinion. It's my opinion and I don't have to validate it. I'm not understanding why you care so deeply. That's all. You're taking this personally. Like it's a personal attack on you that someone would dare not give a shit about tape. It really isn't that way. If you think these mystery unnamed people are misguided, ignorant, stupid, or just plain wrong, does it really affect you? Why?

If someone says "IMO"....it's only fair that they have a reason for it, and unless it's some deep, dark secret or a shitty, misguided reason...why not explain it?
That's what a discussion is all about...what & why people think about tape.

AFA me taking it personally....I actually think it's the other way around. You seem to be making it a personal argument.

I use tape, I've been using it for years, I've used a variety of tape gear, and I've used it in other studios on other tape equipment, not just my various tape rigs...so I know where my opinion about tape comes from, and it's based in fact and hands-on experience. I don't need to defend it, but I can certainly provide factual answers.

I'm asking the people who have never used it or who barely used it....where their opinions come from?

 

[grimtraveller]

AFA being an "authority" on tape, not really, but I am a serious tape user, so when I hear misguided opinions from people who don't use tape or have only dabbled a bit 20 years ago....I'm going to comment.

And so you should. I love discussion and accept there will always be people that won't qualify their opinions. There's room for them too but they tend not to make giant footprints in threads.
For the record, I hate the polls that get held here. The jokey ones are rarely funny and the serious ones are pretty much a waste of space because they go nowhere and are hardly ever if ever at all commented on.

 

[Greg_L]

But for him, it was horrible. That gave an insight as to why he hasn't recorded with tape since 1983.
I have never found tape horrible. Probably 98%, if not more, of all the stuff I listen to was tracked to tape. On a daily basis ever since I was about 13, I've endured someone, somewhere denigrating something I dig musically. Then after I got over that, I finally got it ~ it was their feeling. At best, someone elses's dislike of something I like gives me the opportunity to say I like it and why ~ if I choose to take the opportunity. I learned a long time ago that if an opinionated person like Greg or Muttley or yourself has nothing but disdain for something I like, not only does it not prevent me from still digging it, I can't even be concerned if it stops someone else from digging it because it makes no difference to my existence.
John thinks tape is horrible. He's right. I think it isn't. I'm right.
Such is the beauty of being able to think for oneself.

Yes, exactly, and it pains me to agree with Grim, but this is it exactly. Miro, no one is gonna come and take your tape away because a few people on the internet don't want to use tape. No one is being dissuaded from using tape. None is saying you're wrong or misguided or dumb for using tape. This isn't a product review. None of these opinions mean anything.

 

[miroslav]

John thinks tape is horrible. He's right. I think it isn't. I'm right.
Such is the beauty of being able to think for oneself.

I guess the term "blanket statement" has no meaning...and the errors of making them are irrelevant in an open discussion?



I said I get John....once he stepped back and qualified his point of view.
Initially he was making a blanket statement.

It's your damn thread...do you want discussion....or are you just taking statements for some database?

 

[miroslav]

Yes, exactly, and it pains me to agree with Grim, but this is it exactly. Miro, no one is gonna come and take your tape away because a few people on the internet don't want to use tape.

STILL trying to make into some personal thing with a silly coment!

Of course...you avoid the on-topic discussion and comments.

 

[Greg_L]

If someone says "IMO"....it's only fair that they have a reason for it, and unless it's some deep, dark secret or a shitty, misguided reason...why not explain it?
That's what a discussion is all about...what & why people think about tape.

AFA me taking it personally....I actually think it's the other way around. You seem to be making it a personal argument.

I use tape, I've been using it for years, I've used a variety of tape gear, and I've used it in other studios on other tape equipment, not just my various tape rigs...so I know where my opinion about tape comes from, and it's based in fact and hands-on experience. I don't need to defend it, but I can certainly provide factual answers.

I'm asking the people who have never used it or who barely used it....where their opinions come from?

Holy hell.

This is ridiculous. I'm not making it personal. It seems to me that you were taking it that way, and you clearly are, and I'm wondering why. That is all. I'm not attacking you.

 

[Greg_L]

STILL trying to make into some personal thing with a silly coment!

Of course...you avoid the on-topic discussion and comments.

I'm not making it personal. WTF? You're way out in left field on this one. If I wanted to make it personal, you know good and well that I have no problem just coming right out and calling you an idiot. I haven't done that, and I'm not doing it here.