Would you do analog recording ?

[grimtraveller]

I DON'T think everyone who has only ever used a computer and plugs, only thinks of "analog recording" as meaning "tape" and nothing more.

I can't speak for everyone so I agree. However, the overwhelming majority of people that I've heard or read say they have only used computers and plugs {and even those that have recorded onto tape} equate "analog" with "tape." That has been the clear case in this thread thus far. Even John Willet who brought in the point about there being other ways of recording in analog without going to tape did so a number of posts after he'd assumed the OP was referring to tape/tape recorders. As did everyone else bar Chili {and yourself, of course}.

How/where does using an analog console fit into your question.....???

It doesn't. Not at all. The question has not to do with general analog equipment, but recorders which = tape.

or using lots of analog outboard gear....???
THAT is what an "analog recording" really implies.

No it isn't what it implies. If it does though, it's damn fascinating that not one poster to this thread thus far nor the obvious incompetent that drafted the questions

caught the implication.

If you want to just talk about *tape recorders*....then just say so in the OP, don't say "analog recording" and leave it up to interpretation.

Let me get really pedantic here.
A thread title in my opinion should be sufficiently catchy to get someone to at least look at the thread and therefore decide if they want to participate or not. "Would you do analog recording ?" obviously succeeds on that front.
But it is the opening post itself that sets the initial direction or tone, not the title. And in the opening post, not once do I mention the phrase "analog recording." Not once.
As Bobbsy pointed out, the scenario pointed at in the questions is hypothetical. The first one is aimed at those that have only recorded on digital recorders, the second, at those with experience on analog recorders but who have switched to DAWs. I didn't want to exclude anyone so I left it open to those with hybrid set ups because I think they'd bring in useful angles {see, I was right !} and those who only record on analog recorders for the same reason.
Right from the kick off, I confined the debate, at least from my end, to analog recorders/tape and virtually everyone contributing understood this and did likewise.
Perry Mason would be hard pushed to win a case claiming that it was open to interpretation. The evidence that would sink him......is the posters themselves.

So then...if it is just about tape recorders....why would anyone who has never recorded to one, have any opinion about "Would you do analog (TAPE) recording?"

Why would anyone who had never fought in a war have any opinion as to what they'd do if they were drafted and sent to fight ?
I explained before ~ curiosity and interest. Is it really so difficult to have an idea as to whether or not you'd do something that you currently had no experience of doing, if you happened to have an interest in that particular thing ?
Besides which, we have had posters at HR that record to DAWs and have only recorded to DAWs that have expressed an interest in recording on analog recorders.

 

[Farview]

If you say so....but I DON'T think everyone who has only ever used a computer and plugs, only thinks of "analog recording" as meaning "tape" and nothing more.
How/where does using an analog console fit into your question.....???....or using lots of analog outboard gear....???
THAT is what an "analog recording" really implies.
If you want to just talk about *tape recorders*....then just say so in the OP, don't say "analog recording" and leave it up to interpretation.

So then...if it is just about tape recorders....why would anyone who has never recorded to one, have any opinion about "Would you do analog (TAPE) recording?"

The console and outboard don't record anything, so that isn't analog recording. If you use a console and outboard to mix, that would be analog mixing, no matter what the source was.

 

[Farview]

What about the many, many people that have recorded full-bore to tape and still don't see any value in it?

I'm one of them.

 

[Farview]

I will agree, there is something to be said about the 'knowing' that what you record is what you get. I remember the days of getting mentally prepared to nail it with emotion or go home with tail between legs. Now digitally, it is like well let's see what happens. I can just punch if I fuck up.

Why couldn't you punch in with tape? I did it all the time. It was the auto tune and drum quantizing that was hard as hell to do in analog. I wish it still was.

 

[Farview]

I have recorded on analog for a long time and it is those people that put the analog product down that own the low end stuff and junk made like Akai machines that have to have digital.

I worked in a couple really big analog studios, slaving 24 track 2 inch decks together using some of the best equipment around in the late 80's - early 90's. I can use it just fine, but I prefer digital. I like it when the recorded plays back what I sent it, instead of some colored version of what I was trying to record.

Digital has some advantages but in the overall recording process there are a ton of mistakes made with digital that make it worse than the analog stuff.

So a bunch of goofs overcompress audio using a digital rig, and that becomes a problem with digital?

more material will be lost on digital media than on any other- I have already seen hours of work go up in a poof just with pressing the wrong button.

Stupid mistakes happen. Have you ever screwed up a punch on tape? Have you ever gotten that back? With a DAW, you can press "undo".

You digital types can be fooled for some time but I know where the good sound is and I make it happen on my machines. Wow and Flutter, distortion and all the other parameters you mentioned do not come into play with good equipment.

Of course they do, so does tape stretch, generation loss, etc...

What lack of highs? Even consumer decks I work on sometimes get into the 25-26KHz region. Digital will not even go that high.

It will if you record at 96k, or 192k

 

[miroslav]

The question has not to do with general analog equipment, but recorders which = tape.

..........

Why would anyone who had never fought in a war have any opinion as to what they'd do if they were drafted and sent to fight ?

You miss the point.
If you want to just talk about tape recorders, fine, I am more than willing and capable talking just about them.

Point I was/am making is that when someone says "analog recording"...it really IS much more than just using a tape recorder. People erroneously thinking it's just about "tape", even en-mass on this forum....doesn't make it so.
That's what's wrong with the discussion about "analog recording" meaning just tape.
To discuss just the "recorder" and leave out the console, the outboard gear and other peripheral stuff...is NOT an accurate picture. ALl of that is used to create that analog sound VS the digital emulation of it.
That fact that some digital folks THINK it's just about the tape deck....is wrong.

Also, knowing (and not knowing) what a tape recorder does for audio, is NOT the same as knowing about what war does to people.
That's a lousy comparison.

 

[miroslav]

It will if you record at 96k, or 192k

Oh c'mon now Jay....you know that on HR it has been proven that there is zero value in using anything over 48kHz.

 

[miroslav]

That was the Black Album, the one after 'Justice

Yeah...I think I excluded "Metal" from the "prefers tape/analog" on page 1 or 2.....they all prefer that homogonized digital sound, sliced to death for perfection.

I do think the concensus for Rock/Pop drum tracking still favors tape as the medium of choice....though it may not be done with tape, because there just ain't a tape deck around.

 

[JimmyS1969]

Why couldn't you punch in with tape? I did it all the time. It was the auto tune and drum quantizing that was hard as hell to do in analog. I wish it still was.

I did. I should have been more clear. When my band was paying $65 per hour in the early 90's to use a 'pro' studio with 2" tape, it was more of a getting the shit down the first time scenario. Now, the motivation is not as poignant. Don't get me wrong, I don't suck. I was just agreeing with a different feel from the past when recording to tape and the cost of the studios that used it. Now, I find myself a bit more lazy in the fact that I can play a drum track part way through, and punch in wherever the hell I wish on my time.

Oh, and by the way, who the hell hears anything from 25-26K region anyway? What was the point of that doods comment? lol

 

[Greg_L]

Still not one good, valid reason in this thread to record to tape. Not one.

 

[Greg_L]

I guess that's what grimtraveller was after....lots of opinons and some debate.
.

Grim is after one thing - an argument with someone. He just goes about the hard way, whereas you will argue anything.

 

[Greg_L]

I'm one of them.

Impossible. Everyone must kneel at the tape alter.

 

[JimmyS1969]

That was the Black Album, the one after 'Justice

Um, anyone who would try to say that Lars actually played the tracks on 'Justice' is completely delusional. The dood has no internal meter or consistency. He comes up with some cool grooves and fills maybe, but the dood is a hack in my personal drummer ratings. Number one in my book is a drummer who has no sense of timing. Seen Metallica on purpose twice, three other times by default. He should program drums or have a click track surgically implanted into his brain, because he has no natural meter.

Sorry for the derail.

'Justice' is also edited to the grid (and I do that with others myself). I am not judging that. Not even sure he actually played on that record at all actually. That is my conspiracy theory tho. Not fact.

The 'Black' album may have been recorded to tape. But I would be really amazed if they actually edited the tracks via tape itself. Who would waste that much time?

 

[Greg_L]

Um, anyone who would try to say that Lars actually played the tracks on 'Justice' is completely delusional. The dood has no internal meter or consistency. He comes up with some cool grooves and fills maybe, but the dood is a hack in my personal drummer ratings. Number one in my book is a drummer who has sense of timing. Seen Metallica on purpose twice, three other times by default. He should program drums or have a click track surgically implanted into his brain, because he has no natural meter.

Sorry for the derail.

'Justice' is also edited to the grid (and I do that with others myself). I am not judging that. Not even sure he actually played on that record at all actually. That is my conspiracy theory tho. Not fact.

The 'Black' album may have been recorded to tape. But I would be really amazed if they actually edited the tracks via tape itself. Who would waste that much time?

The engineer had admitted to slicing up THE TAPE of Lars's drum tracks and splicing them together measure by measure. None of his tracks were written or figured out. He went basically beat by beat through the whole album, to tape, and it's all held together with scotch tape. It was "Justice" or the Black album, I thought it was Justice. So no, you don't have to be good or special to use tape, and it doesn't sound any better than anything else by itself. You just have to be patient and/or a little wealthy to use it.

 

[Greg_L]

Oh and yeah, Lars is shit. Total shit.

 

[JimmyS1969]

The engineer had admitted to slicing up THE TAPE of Lars's drum tracks and splicing them together measure by measure. None of his tracks were written or figured out. He went basically beat by beat through the whole album, to tape, and it's all held together with scotch tape. It was "Justice" or the Black album, I thought it was Justice. So no, you don't have to be good or special to use tape, and it doesn't sound any better than anything else by itself. You just have to be patient and/or a little wealthy to use it.

I suppose it gives an intern something to do before he becomes a soundman huh? lol

Again, I must apologize for the derail of this thread. Please infract me Chili.

 

[Greg_L]

I suppose it gives an intern something to do before he becomes a soundman huh? lol

Again, I must apologize for the derail of this thread. Please infract me Chili.

If any thread needs derailing, it's this one.

 

[JimmyS1969]

If any thread needs derailing, it's this one.

Reported. lol

 

[miroslav]

Still not one good, valid reason in this thread to record to tape. Not one.

Hey....if you can't find one, that's you.

I bet if 20 engineers came on HR and said they still use tape (not just for home rec, but also for pro rec).....you would still say the same thing.....because that's just how you roll. Once you decide something has no value....there isn't a perspective on earth from ANYONE that will change your mind!

But that's cool....you can stick to your guns, just don't criticize the opposition when they stick to theirs.

....whereas you will argue anything.

Where does that leave you?




I was talking to this NYC engineer a couple of weeks ago...he had a large format console for sale as he was upgrading to something newer, and I was semi-interested in, but knew it was going to be too big for my space.
Anyway, this guy ain't no slouch....I mean, Emmy's under the belt, high-paying name clients, etc...so he's not just amusing himself in his spare bedroom like most of us here, and I would think whatever opinions the guy has, are based in reality and in serious experience, and not just Internet-learned opinion.

So we start talking about the console and analog recording, and while he says he does use a DAW every day, he STILL rolls tape every day and has been for 20-30 years.
He point-blank said...."nothing sound like it"...and if you want that tape/analog sound, you need that gear. He went on to say that some clients get a little pissy about the cost of tape when added to their bill, but it's the sound they really want and the sound he prefers. You can find him on the net...Gary Arnold...."Gary's Chop Shop" in NYC.

Now that may not prove anything to the digital guys here, and I'm not looking to pull anyone over to the tape/analog side....but it just underscores this misguided notion that "tape is horrible and of no value" today.

Funny...the same digital guys who balk at the use of a real tape deck and analog console and outboard gear....have tons of plug-ins that emulate that stuff nd use them regularly!!!
I still like the real thing when I can get it instead of the plugs....no different than guitar amps VS sims, but that's another discussion, right?

 

[corbo]

Oh and yeah, Lars is shit. Total shit.

I'm not the one using profanities directed at people, or spewing weird misinformation. Please stop wasting my and everyone else's time. Thanks.

so much for that