working on my first song

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N8theGr8

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im having a little trouble writing my first song, the lyrics are no problem, i've sent them to a few friends and they think the'yre great, but my problem is translating the lyrics from paper into sound. does it work best to come up with a chord progression and sing the lyrics based on that, or vice versa? usually when i sing the lyrics with no progression to follow i end up singing them to the tune of some song ive been listening to recently :rolleyes:
 
I'd do the music (at least the basics) first + then work your lyrics round that.
 
I have difficulty putting music to words. I do it the other way around, but I'm beginning to try it.

I set down some guildlines I'm gonna use. Maybe others will add to it or tell me my ideas stink.

First off, I'd memorize the lyrics.

Second, I'd use a drum machine or a metronome and try different BPMs while I go over the lyrics.

I'd try 4/4 and 3/4 time.

For me a beat like from a drum machine is one of the key things to getting my inner beat going.

Using the lyrics and the drum machine I'd hope to come up with a melody that fits the meter of the lyrics to the beat of the song.
I'd tape it.

Change the BPM and the drum beat to something else.
Repeat till I dry up for the time being.

I believe if I can get a melody to the lyrics with a set timing, the musical arrangement should be a piece of cake.

Sorry I can't give you the lyrical grail, N8. Just an idea of what I'm going to do.

Ya know what I've found, N8, is that when I let people who know me critique my stuff, they tend to tell me what I want to hear. We all do it in one way or another.
No one here knows you personally and probably never will.
Why don't you post your lyrics here and let us shred them for you?
There are a quite a few guys around here who know a hell of a lot about writing songs.
You've got nothing to loose. Just stuff to gain.
Just another idea.
 
thanks a lot guys, once i pull my random verses and chorus together i'll post the lyrics. its definitely a lot easier to make music to go along with a melody i already have in my head rather than sing along to a chord progression ive made up, but ill try both ways.
 
for me, coming up with a stand alone melody that is good is next to impossible........

i'd work out a chord progession and then try to work the words into a melody
 
Getting a chord progression first works well, and one way to find a decent melody to a chord progression is to play a solo against the progression on your main instrument. Since you are constructing a vocal melody, make the notes in your "solo" a little longer and in the general pace of the flow of the lyrics you've already written. Try playing different notes (even those that may be out of the song's key) or even two note chords.. Usually I will try and sing to a tape of the progression when I'm in the car, but this can be difficult because I will notice that I'm singing the same group of notes that my voice always gravitates towards. When this happens, I'll try to find it on the guitar instead.

Cy
 
That's basiclly my approach, Powderfinger.
Once I get a decent sounding progression and the melody the rough lyrics come pretty good.

That's a good way of doing it, Cyrokk.
That two note cord you mentioned I think is called a "double stop".
 
i think im just gonna post my random verses in a little bit, just gotta get em all together...bear in mind im 17 and not the greatest writer, and I know these lyrics are nothing special...probably the all-too-common post-getting dumped lyrics, and there isnt really any set rhyming...aight ill be back later -Nate
 
let's see em nate.

I wish I had people to bounce things off when I was seventeen. Although, when I was seventeen, it was a very good year....
 
I wish we had places like this forty years ago when I began writing.
Age means nothing N8. Not a damn thing here.
I sloppped around for years writing song after song with no one to give me an impartial opinion on them.

No one is going to laugh, not here any way. We usually go to the Clinic to share our laughs.

I agree Stone. 17 was a very good year.
I got outta highschool, went to Nam. Saw parts of the world I'd of never seen before.
I even begin to like Vietnamese music. Well, maybe not like it, but I learned to respect and understand it.
 
N8

You've got to do things your own way, but trying the ideas mentioned here are clearly going to help.

Here's another one, which was triggered by something you said about when you just tried to make up a melody on its own, you sang them to some tune you'd already heard.

Well, the problem with coming up with a chord structure first is that you naturally then tend to build a melody around the roots, thirds and fifths of the chords, and this tends to sound perfectly pleasant but not terribly inspired. So my take on this is to try to write the melody first and then build chords around it.

So how do you beat the problem you've identified? Try this. Make every word (or syllable) you thought you'd sing as a long note, into a short one. And vice versa. Throw away all the rhythm ideas that were in your head when you wrote the lyrics. Combine that with what you thought was a cliched melody, you'll get a few obvious ideas for changes in notes which come from your changes in the rhythm of the words and you might just find you've got a great original tune. Nothing like what you thought you'd started with but that's the way it goes.

Might work, might not, but I think it's worth half an hour.

And the only rule is, don't give up. They tell me it's great when it works!
 
alrighty, here goes nothin:

But you're so different from all the rest,
And I thought you would be for the best,
But apparently perfection has its downsides
Grief and misery have to catch up sometime.

And you said "let's be friends"
Those meaningless parting words,
But I trusted you,
And that was the worst thing to do

It's not hard if you try,
But it's so much easier
just to leave me
behind

You've drained all the hope that I once had,
Now I fear you,
I fear today,
Tomorrow's just a re-run

Then they took you away,
And I'm left
fighting a useless cause,
I will never be the same
I'm forever changed,
Why can't I turn my back on time?
Why did I turn my back on time.

The sea of memories,
comes crashing
into my head, now,
I'll enjoy it for the while

I make you smile no longer,
A blank stare is all I receive,
"Do I know you?"
I'm insignificant.

I'm forced to walk through this long twisting path,
But don't worry about me, I'm sure I'll be fine,
If only I could find my way back,
Find the path that leads back to me.

whew, oh man. these look so bad printed up. (they're in no real order) Anyways....to sum up this was my first close relationship, and she left me because I loved her a lot and she felt she couldn't love me back...? ive tried making sense out of that one for about 2 months now, but the killer part of it was that she completely ignored me even after telling her she was doing to me what her friends have done to her (she been burned a bunch of times in the past) and she continued to be a bitch and i havent really talked with her since. yeah...rough times, music has been pretty much the only thing keeping me going, ive gotten into ska (reel big fish, mighty mighty bosstones) and a little emo (dashboard confessional....oh man, feel free to make fun of me for that one) and as always, dave matthews! rock on. -nate
 
Honestly?

I think you're selling yourself short. Those are great lyrics. My suggestion would be to try and incorporate a chorus into the lines you have in the third, sixth, and seventh paragraphs because they seem short enough to warrant a repetitive melody.

The best part of the lyrics is the last line. I would definately leave it right at the end for the best impact.

Cy
 
hey, thanks a lot cy, maybe i'll rework some of those other verses a bit, and ive yet to really decide which should be the chorus or if i should make up a chorus on use these as verses...i dunno, for some reason when i look at my lyrics they just dont quite sound the way i'd like them to be. i've been listening to dashboard a lot recently and his lyrics are absolutely incredible in my opinion, they're filled with so much detail and emotion. i think i just have trouble working in my feelings maybe...i dunno, thanks again though
 
Damn N8.
That's a good job on those lyrics, putting your feeling down and projecting those feelings.
Yeah, I like that last line too.

I don't know about adding or taking away from any of it without listening to it now.
To me the music makes the lyrics work, and the lyrics make the music work. One compliments the other. So I find it pretty hard to comment on lyrics. I look at my own lyrics and they just look like words, but when the music is put to them those words come alive.

I'll reserve comment on your lyrics after I hear the music.
All I can say for now is, "Good, powerful feelings in those lyrics".
 
alright i tried coming up with a chord progression, im in flat tuning, B-A-C-G sounds nice, i've also been experimenting with power chords on the A/D/G strings, with the rest played open. dashboard does this a lot and i didnt want the whole song to revolve around it, so i used them for a cool sounding outro for the song. my main problem is an intro...i'd like to start with some arpegios (sp?) and since i cant even spell it you can probably guess i dont really know how to go about playing them. i tried some random combinations.... haha....i'll try and tab it here: 1= high E;6=low E 6: 0, 5: 2, 4: 4, 5: 0 (repeat a few times, each time rest after last note) and switch from open low E to 2nd fret....and then after that im completely clueless, i wanna work in the high strings but i just cant come up with combinations that sound right.
 
n8,

i think those are fine lyrics-honest, emotional, without getting too cheesy-very impressive for a first time out. are you a poetry writer? very workable stuff. you're going to have to stretch some notes or do some other experimenting to make it flow right with a standard-style progression, but many bands have done well with far less.

i'm about to start on some new "girl betrayed me" songs soon, i think-i have the impetus, seeing as how i feel betrayed by a girl :D

btw, n8, if you want to get into heavy music that is emotional and all about failings in interpersonal relationships, check out converge. they are intense.
 
thanks zerosig, and i'll check out converge. im glad you guys think the lyrics are good! i actually stayed up late last night just pouring out random verses, these could be worked with this song or a different one, but the weird thing about writing lyrics is that i think they actually come out much better when you dont even think about them before writing them...these ones are a little more geared towards the past than being lost like in my last ones, here goes..again, no real order here

I hope that one day,
When you're off and away,
That you'll remember the time,
When you called me your darling
When we kissed,
And the stars were our only witness

The timeless nights spent in the dark,
The way I gazed into your eyes,
And saw everything,
That I love.

And now it's all fading to black,
You've built this wall between us,
And how I yearn to climb over,
But that's not allowed,
You won't let me.

I wanted to lie there forever,
Cause I knew,
That this day might come,
Where you shake it all off without one tear

I never got to show you my long lost poetry,
It's locked away,
I can't bear to read it,
You never wanted to see it anyway

Those words were for you,
To keep by your side,
Forever and ever,
I'm sorry I loved you at all.

Somebody hit me please,
'Cause I can't believe my eyes,
Why does she care no more, (i might take this line out)
You're killing me just like they killed you,
And you don't care.

Just give me a sign,
That you're there,
You're the only one that knows me,
And you know that,
And you don't care.

i cant really tell the cheesyness of lyrics...so if these ones are please tell me, i just write whatever comes out of my head. haha, and no zerosig, im no poetry writer, ive always been just so-so at writing and never very good at interpreting shakespeare and whatnot, but for some reason i can always write love poems...and the one i wrote one summer night about my girlfriend...i thought she would have loved it (dont all girls...?) but apparently she thought it would be "too hard to live up to" whatever that means...godammit though it was so good, it was comparing her to a flower that stands out among a sea of flowers...well its all locked away in my desk now, and i put that in these lyrics. anyways, i gotta get working on the actual singing/guitar part for this song...cause these lyrics are still just words and not music, thanks a lot guys -Nate (by the way...any links to arpeggio/intro techniques or guideline sites would be awesome)
zerosig, best band for betrayal that i've heard thus far, hands down has gotta be Queen. i cant even remember how many times i would play their songs over and over, "nevermore" "teo torriate" "you take my breath away" and "love of my life"
 
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N8,
you got good comments so far and life always has it's downside so I'll give you my opinion. Personally, I don't like when lyrics are telling a story or something... I had to listen to the radio today while I was getting a haircut and there was that song I was hearing for the first time and I was able to guess the end of sentences and sing with the guy. It was pretty pathetic.

Anyway I'm sure your lyrics are good cuz, to me, they look like the ones you hear on radio ( you know like.. Never made it as a wise man, never made it as a poor man stealing.. blah blah blah : Chad's telling us a story...) but it's just not the kind of lyrics I like. Perfect example of what I like would be "Ok Computer - Radiohead".

Keep it up, work them out as you like them. Don't take ppl's opinion for cash. Sometimes all they can tell is if your lyrics are like the ones on radio. Then give you tips to work them out to fit the mould. Of course if that's what you want well... ok then.
 
Oh btw, that last song... it's exactly what happenned to me, xept for the poetry part cuz I would never write a poem to a girl. In fact I'm sti working my ass off of that relation... spent 3 years with that girl and she's still the one I know the most but it's like if she's building a wall btw us and I feel like she don't really care anymore. I miss having sex with her :\ and maybe I still like her a bit but it's been a year so it's not very strong anymore.

anyways... gn im off to bed now.
 
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