Working on a home studio of sorts, need help

T

twsknight

New member
Right here's the deal

I've been working on getting a home studio of sorts together, I can record bass, guitar, keys no problems and vocals I'm starting to get the hang of.

The problem is drums...

What I want to be able to do is connect my five mic set up I currently have, to something that will record the five mics simultaneously but as seperate tracks. Basically when I'm editing on Cubase I want to see each mic as a seperate audio track.

I gather I need some sort of ditigal recorder or compact studio, like a Fostex?

If that is the case then I would like the cheapest one possible that can handle up to 8 tracks.

What I currently do for recording the drums is as follows:
5 mics:
2 overheads
2 on snare
1 kick

These go into an old PA head thing (as in something you'd use in a live situation for vocal mics) which then is connected to a Toneport GX, which is connected to cubase. So I end up with one track containing all 5 mic recordings. I've got a reasonably good sound, but I know if I can isolate each track then i'll be able to get a much better sound.

Any info would be a great help, but the more info the better. I've had a look on websites, but they tend to just confuse me.

Thanks very much
Dan
 
Welcome to the board.

You mention both Cubase and Fostex--but they're basicallly different world.

Are you currently recording into Cubase on your computer? If so, what you need isn't a standalone multitracker (like you were mentioning) but rather a multi channel interface.

Your computer (w/cubase) can already handle recording multiple channels at a time (which is the same thing a Fostex would do). You just need a way to hand 4 separate signal off to your computer. That's generally with a Firewire interface.

I've got an older one and a fairly specialized rig--so I'm not the one to talk specific brands or models. I'm sure someone will be along with some recommendation. In the meantime, assuming I guessed right and you have a decent computer, start searching the web and this forum for firewire audio interfaces and you'll learn a lot.

Of course if you don't have computer, let us know. That changes things...
 
Is this the sort of thing I need?

Alesis Multitrack 8 firewire (won't let me paste the link to it but you can find it on thomann.de)

I notice it says it's 8 tracks, but 5+6 and 7+8 share all the eq settings. Does this mean that if you wanted to put in a full 8 mics, that there would be 2 pairs of mics that couild not be individually edited on the mixer?

If that's the case then when recording drums would you put the two overheads through them and perhaps the two snare mics (top and bottom) through another as you'd want an even sound from them.
 
I can't speak to that particular model, but yes, you're on the right track.

You said multitrack 8, but do you mean multimix 8? If so, that's only got 4 XLR ins for mics--the other two are likely stereo channels with 1/4" inputs--for a total of 8.

(But did you see what you did there? You've already got yourself talked into using 8 channels instead of 4! :D)
 
The Multimix 16 will let you record 8 mic channels (cause it has 8 preamps, and 8 line in channels=16 total). The XLR inputs are the ones that count, they are the ones that have pre-amps. You can use the other line ins, as long as you have a preamp in your chain before going into the board.
However, this unit sends a post eq signal to the computer. Meaning you dont get the dry sound, you get the coloured sound of your eq adjustments, volume, etc.
Also, you cannot "mix" on this board. Your "mix" is being done in Cubase afterwards. You can "mix" before going into the computer, but if you dont like it later on its too late to change (ex. oops, didnt mean to pan hard left, turns out it sounds too wide....too late to change now, gotta retrack).
Also, Ive heard a lot of bad about the MulitMix units, I looked into them a few months back cause they really appealed to me. But after reading many many bad reviews about the cheap fader quality, compatibility issues, and finding out it has no pre-eq send I dismissed it.
Both Firewire and USB 2.0 (not 1.0) should work find with multitracking.
A few cheap options anywhere for 8 tracks are:

TASCAM US1641 USB 2.0 - 8 preamps, pretty cheap at $400
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/prod...dioMIDI-USB-2.0-Computer-Interface?sku=245002

PreSonous FireStudio, same deal but with Firewire and $500
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/PreSonus-FireStudio-Project?sku=241723

PreSonus FirePod, also 8 preamps and Firewire $400, has some compatibility issues depending on the chipset your comp has
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/PreSonus-FP10-10x10-FireWire-Interface?sku=242036

Alesis io26, 8 preamps and Firewire, also ADAT connection for expanding preamps later on $400. I am really considering getting this unit.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/prod...-26-Input-FireWire-Audio-Interface?sku=246031

I ommited the higher priced stuff cause you sound like your on the cheap. There ARE cheaper interfaces that these out there, but they will have less preamps, usually 4 is the step down.

Hope that helps.

Mike
 
Nightfire said:
Both Firewire and USB 2.0 (not 1.0) should work find with multitracking.
Click to expand...

Good info. This should help the OP. I might be mistaken, but I thought USB (even 2.0) only passed 2 channels on to the computer, whereas Firewire has no such limitation. (I don't know firsthand--I'm all firewire; but I thought I had read that.)
 
WhiteStrat said:
Good info. This should help the OP. I might be mistaken, but I thought USB (even 2.0) only passed 2 channels on to the computer, whereas Firewire has no such limitation. (I don't know firsthand--I'm all firewire; but I thought I had read that.)
Click to expand...

yep, that's true. which is what i was gonna mention to the op. you need a firewire port on your computer for a firewire interface to do you any good! caveat emptor!!!
 
One thing to watch out for on USB 2.0 vs Firewire 400. While the data transfer rate is similar, Firewire uses a dedicated chip to manage bus traffic and data transfer, while USB relies on your processor. I think if you don't consider the implementation cost, Firewire is a significantly better interface.

So if your tracking in a lot of data, and outputting a lot of data, your processor will start to get tied up, and throw in a bunch of real-time plug-ins and you could end up with drop-outs. The use of Firewire will allow you to do more at the same time, despite having a slightly lower data rate. Not sure how much you need to do, but it's something to consider.
 
WhiteStrat said:
Good info. This should help the OP. I might be mistaken, but I thought USB (even 2.0) only passed 2 channels on to the computer, whereas Firewire has no such limitation. (I don't know firsthand--I'm all firewire; but I thought I had read that.)
Click to expand...

This is not true.... just look at the Edirol UA-101. 10 channels of simultaneous input on USB 2.0
 
USB 2.0 sends individual channels, Ive heard of people running 16 indiviual tracks daisy chained through USB 2.0.
That being said, FireWire IS more reliable, however if you have a good processor USB 2.0 should work just fine. There are always issues with FireWire AND USb 2.0, always bad reviews and also always good reviews.


Mike
 
My obligatory standard reply-for-newbies that I keep in Wordpad:

First off, immediately get a good beginner recording book (spend $20 before spending hundred$/thousand$) that shows you what you need to get started and how to hook everything up in your studio:
Home Recording for Musicians by Jeff Strong - $15
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/07...ce&n=283155&n=507846&s=books&v=glance
(Wish I'd had that when I started; would have saved me lots of money and time and grief)

Good Newbie guides that also explains all the basics:
http://www.tweakheadz.com/guide.htm
http://www.computermusic.co.uk/page/computermusic?entry=free_beginner_pdfs

21 Ways To Assemble a Recording Rig:
http://www.tweakheadz.com/rigs.htm

Also Good Info:
http://www.theprojectstudiohandbook.com/directory.htm

Other recording books:
http://musicbooksplus.com/home-recording-c-31.html

Still using a built-in soundcard?? Unfortunately, those are made with less than $1 worth of chips for beeps, boops and light gaming (not to mention cheapness for the manufacturer) not quality music production.
#1 Rule of Recording: You MUST replace the built-in soundcard.
Here's a good guide and suggestions:
http://www.tweakheadz.com/soundcards_for_the_home_studio.htm


Plenty of software around to record for FREE to start out on:

Audacity: http://audacity.sourceforge.net (multi-track with VST support)
Wavosaur: http://www.wavosaur.com/ (a stereo audio file editor with VST support)\
Kristal: http://www.kreatives.org/kristal/
Other freebies and shareware: www.hitsquad.com
Another great option is REAPER at http://www.cockos.com/reaper/ (It's $40 but runs for free until you get guilty enough to pay for it...)

Music Notation and MIDI recording: Melody Assistant ($20) and Harmony Assistant ($80) have the power of $600 notation packages - http://myriad-online.com
Demo you can try on the website.

And you can go out to any Barnes&Noble or Borders and pick up "Computer Music" magazine - they have a full FREE studio suite in every issue's DVD, including sequencers, plugins and tons of audio samples. (November 2006 they gave away a full copy of SamplitudeV8SE worth $150, November 2007-on the racks Dec in the US- they gave away SamplitudeV9SE. It pays to watch 'em for giveaways...)
 
Thanks for the help guys.

Sorry for a late reply, I've got no internet connection at home at the moment, and have been too busy to get a computer since I last posted a message.

Glad I asked for help though, I could have ended up with all sorts of probelms.
 
Good luck with your new setup.

I have no problem with my Firewire. I am using the M-Audio Project Mix I/O, and can record 8 tracks in with no problems. (While also using MIDI, flying fader automation, etc. etc. etc.)

Just another quick tip - Don't rush any of your purchases.

I've had buyer's remorse to the tune of several thousands of dollars - lots and lots of reading and research is needed.


Someone around here once said "Buy cheap, buy twice" - In my experience, that is sadly too true.

If you are going to buy budget gear, buy it from the guys in the BBS, in the BUY/ SELL forum. It gives you an inexpensive way to try lots of different gear, and IMO, buying from the guys here is far safer than EBay.

There are excellent deals everyday in the BUY/SELL Forum.
 
Tube Preamps with E-MU 1820??

hello all,

i've never done a post, or thread, or any kind of discussion thing before...i'm not even sure which i'm doing now, if it's thread, or post, or....whatever.

the reason i signed up and am writing this is I am looking for guidance with regard to my home studio set up...I have an E-MU1820, and Nuendo on my PC.

I am wondering if there is a way to incorporate a tube mic preamp into the mix. I've been using the xlr inputs on the E-MU, but they're a bit noisy, and not quite as dimensional as I would like...any ideas on what preamps are good...mostly i'll be recording a vocal and acc. guit. track....folky stuff. and then woodwinds like flutes...i found the PreSonus TubePre single channel....is that good? or do you know of anything that is great, that won't send me into debtors prison? cheers, urmy.
 
Didnt read every post but what you are trying to do would require a bigger interface. Your toneport only allows one line into the computer at a time. Your option is an expensive one so it might not be worth it to you. Maybe try getting an analog mixer whihc allows you more control then your powered pa mixer you have even though you will still wind up one with one track. If your toneport allows you to bring two tracks into the computer at once you definitly want to use both and bring into the computer in stereo.
 
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