Work in progress... pop punk

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mattr

mattr

Resident moody teenager
Haven't posted anything for scrutiny and criticism in a while :)

I'm doing an EP for a friend's band at the moment. Got two other tracks on the go yesterday but they're not as complete as this one yet. This was all recorded in my bedroom yesterday morning. Adding vocals tomorrow.

Not started mixing it properly yet - its literally just a quick faders-up mix, and not a very good one at that! (...drums too loud, rhythms a tad quiet, and some lead parts are lost whilst others are too prominent)

Updated mix...
Kira? (2nd rough mix, some scratch vox tracks)

Kira? (no vox, 1st rough mix)

Thoughts?
Any would be appreciated.
 
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Meh, pretty cheesey, but okay I guess. I don't know what kind of critique you want if everything is gonna be changed anyway.
 
Guitar tones were something I was hoping for some input on?

I've kinda become numb to the sound of it now and have little idea in what direction to take it. Some fresh ears would be nice :)
 
Well, I like the guitar tones a lot...all of them. Some of the feature parts could stand a bump up. And all the guitars are losing a battle with the bass and drums. And the panning is real nice.

I'm the king of stiff MIDI drums. Gerg hates stiff drums. All the velocities are level, and the playing mechanical. Spend some time in piano roll altering velocities, or use a groove quantizer...or 'drunk drummer' to mess the hits up a little. Or re-record the drums using sticks on pads to get things a notch looser.

I'm not a drum-sound perfectionist...don't know how to be. But they sound OK to me....only play off machine-like.

Now...I like the clean, careful guitar playing, the arrangement, and the groove, very much.

My advice, FWWIW, would be to lower the bass and drums in the mix; and work on getting the velocities varied, and getting some millisecond scootchroom on the hits...not always on the line. Making fake drums sound real is an art. Not easy. Pads, with parts made one piece at a time...if you're not a drummer, like I'm way not...work a lot better than point and click piano roll construction.

I think the tune's exciting, interesting, and well thought out. Add a kickass vocal, fix the levels and drums, and I think it's a fine work. I would not mess with the guit sounds and pans an iota...they're real...love 'em. Just level up the earlier feature parts .

Nice,....very nice job.
 
Thanks jeff...

Just to hijack my own thread, you seem like the perfect guy to answer a question I had relating to another song I'm doing... is there a trick to getting nice sounding flams using fake drums? At the moment I've tried a grace snare hit with a much lower velocity just before the main hit, but it still doesn't sound quite right. Any magic to it, or just the usual trial and error?

I only got Steven Slate a week ago and this is my first song with fake drums. I'm usually a real drums guy, but I have to say that I'm loving the convenience. I wouldn't use them for every recording though.

Greg... this whole subgenre is stereotypically cheesy :D If you think this is bad, I could link you to stuff that would be certain to make you cringe! But its fun cheesy... happy stuff that makes you smile =]
 
is there a trick to getting nice sounding flams using fake drums?


Not a clue. I can make a flam in MIDI or by editing audio...or trying one on the real snare I have...if I knew how to tune it. But a good flam????

I've spent the last couple weeks listening to Dave Garabaldi's work with Tower of Power...trying to learn something. What I have learned: ain't no machine made that can do that.....even if I had the imagination to dream up phrases and feels like he plays. One thing to produce a good flam....then y' gotta figure out where to put it...and how often. Ugh.
 
I typically can't stand this type of music, but I think you've done a fine job of capturing it, especially if this is just a rough mix. I think the fake drums are more than believable enough that no kid in skinny jeans listening to this on his iPod will ever know the difference. Get some stupid lyrics on there about a guy pining for his ex-girlfriend and you'll be off to the mall-punk races. :D

Good work,
Matt
 
Sounds a lot better than most pop punk demo's I've heard, and better than a lot of records too hehe.

Chuck the guitars up a bit, add vocals and call it a day.
 
It's a sad era in musical history when this sterile crap can be labeled "punk".
 
I really like it. Sounds very good. I'm planning on getting Steven Slate as well. They sound so much 'in your face'. One thing I noticed in your mix is that its really limited. Clips like hell! Take it down a notch.
 
Greg_L said:
It's a sad era in musical history when this sterile crap can be labeled "punk".
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correct.

Tell you what, there's some weirs sub shit going on in this song, it pains my ears at higher volumes. My ears grew tired very quickly ( about 40 seconds in)
 
MY two cents.

First cent....

This is not punk. Not even remotely. Remove it from the genre naming convention. Pop will suffice. Don't be coming around here getting my hopes up with claims of pop punk only to be disheartened .....again. Ick.

Second Cent.
Over all mix sounds good. It sounds like all the other fall outboyish stuff thats out now. Overly polished, and crispy. The guitars sound good given what your working with. The crunch is there, but the guts aren't. If that is in fact an orange half stack. Maybe shift some low ends around between the bass and guits perhaps?? But don't make one eat the other. I know what im talking about but haveing a hard time articulating it.

The drums are good. Almost too good. Fake drums require no comment really. unless they are my lame ass fruity loops tracks.

This would be a good bro song on some lame teen 90210 show.

All in all not a bad. mix. I'll have another listen when you make the changes you mentioned.



Punk.. Pfft.
 
matt, you might want to ignore some of the negative comments that state this is not punk or that this is cheesy or would do great in a lame "teen" show. they're not in the age range you're aiming for, look at their age and their comments will make sense. they're also from another generation that thinks the old techniques are better than the new ones and that music is not music if not done like they like it. they hate the pop/punk music being played on mtv, yet it is successful and millions love it. specially when a guy calling your music cheesy is a shakira wannabe whose latest single is called she wolf. lol. so don't get too worried about their opinion about the music, just the mixing.

this is great and it's catchy as hell. just filter the comments to only pay attention to suggestions regarding mixing. wouldn't want you to actually think what they're saying is true and end up making music stuck in the 80s (see how far it's taken them......... lol) when yours is current and really good. keep it up and i'll send you a pm with some music forums of todays music scene and you'll see the kind of feedback you get - it's the target audience. good luck, my g/f loved this and i showed it to a few bandmates as well, they said the same thing. looking forward to hearing more songs and how this one ends up with vocals.
 
outerspacezoo said:
matt, you might want to ignore some of the negative comments that state this is not punk or that this is cheesy or would do great in a lame "teen" show. they're not in the age range you're aiming for, look at their age and their comments will make sense. they're also from another generation that thinks the old techniques are better than the new ones and that music is not music if not done like they like it. they hate the pop/punk music being played on mtv, yet it is successful and millions love it. specially when a guy calling your music cheesy is a shakira wannabe whose latest single is called she wolf. lol. so don't get too worried about their opinion about the music, just the mixing.

this is great and it's catchy as hell. just filter the comments to only pay attention to suggestions regarding mixing. wouldn't want you to actually think what they're saying is true and end up making music stuck in the 80s (see how far it's taken them......... lol) when yours is current and really good. keep it up and i'll send you a pm with some music forums of todays music scene and you'll see the kind of feedback you get - it's the target audience. good luck, my g/f loved this and i showed it to a few bandmates as well, they said the same thing. looking forward to hearing more songs and how this one ends up with vocals.
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WTF dude?

So if I understand you correctly, you think that anybody who doesn't like A Simple Plan is stuck in the past? I'm a good deal older than you are, and I guran-freaking-tee you that I listen to more young, new bands year to year than you do, many of which consist of songwriters your age or not much older. And I never have any need to go anywhere near music that sounds like this to do that. My point is, everybody is entitled to like what they like, and the "million-selling MTV darlings" you speak of need not be a part of it.

I just find it kind of funny how you're accusing people of some form of generational bigotry, yet doing the exact same thing in reverse.

To the OP: please don't take any of my comments here as an affront, I already told you I think you did a great job on this recording and I meant it.
 
outerspacezoo said:
matt, you might want to ignore some of the negative comments that state this is not punk or that this is cheesy or would do great in a lame "teen" show. they're not in the age range you're aiming for, look at their age and their comments will make sense. they're also from another generation that thinks the old techniques are better than the new ones and that music is not music if not done like they like it. they hate the pop/punk music being played on mtv, yet it is successful and millions love it. specially when a guy calling your music cheesy is a shakira wannabe whose latest single is called she wolf. lol. so don't get too worried about their opinion about the music, just the mixing.
.
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Lol. I piss out more punk rock than you've heard in your life. Guaranteed. Feel free to shut the fuck up now. Thanks buddy.
 
@mattdee1... spot on about the stupid lyrics :D I understand this isn't to everyone's tastes, but this is a forum about mixing after all and I'm glad you can see that (unlike a few other people around here). Cheers for the feedback!



@Greg_L, Atom Bomb...

Firstly, whilst I admit to really liking this kind of music, I am not 'slave' to it and appreciate a lot of other music besides it. I am a classically trained musician to a reasonably good standard, as are two of the members of this band (the drummer also plays the piano, and the bassist can play the double bass, piano and clarinet). In fact, I have performed in a Jazz 6-piece with those two band members many times.

Secondly, "Pop Punk" is an established genre whether you like it or not, and it has a fairly hefty Wikipedia page behind it. Plus, what is wrong with it having a large youth following? I bet during your youth there was a particular style of genre that a large majority of people favored, which at the same time the 'older generations' didn't like. To me it just seems there's some level of frustration that a large consumer market is leaning towards a genre that you don't favour nor buy in to.


Oh, and I don't know what you mean by...
If that is in fact an orange half stack
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Yes, it is. Crispy new AD30... very nice, well nice for us :) I'm sure some people here have better.
Single on-axis MD421, no EQ except a HPF, very light ITB compression (UAD 1176).



@outerspacezoo...
Thanks for the comments. Only got a small amount of the vocals finished the other day (there's a horrific amount of harmonies and part-doubling to get through). I'll post it once its finished :)
 
Dude, I like a lot of pop-punk. The Queers, Riverdales, Huntingtons, Screeching Weasel, MTX, etc. Love it. I'm also an unapologetic superfan of the inventors of pop-punk - The Ramones. I've seen them 6 times. I've seen them when Dee Dee was still in the band. That was back before dumbshit n00bs like outerspacezoo was even born. Lol.

Anyway, I'm not anti modern music, I'm anti sterile music, and most of today's radio friendly pop "punk" is very sterile. That's fine. If you wanna hit the big time, you gotta be cheesey. Hot Topic isn't popular by accident. You can buy all the pop punk you want at that place, and it sells. You got 12 year old girls wearing studded belts and socks on their forearms listening to Avril Lavigne. 14 year old boys that couldn't name one Motorhead song are wearing the T-shirt. Awesome! That's punk as fuck! :D
 
I missed all the first wave punk rock, and caught a raft of shit from the older kids for being into second wave bands. Knowing a little history and having a little respect for the old timers will take you far.

Mix isn't bad, vocals will make a big difference when it all comes together.
 
mattr said:
@mattdee1... spot on about the stupid lyrics :D I understand this isn't to everyone's tastes, but this is a forum about mixing after all and I'm glad you can see that (unlike a few other people around here). Cheers for the feedback!
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Matt--be sure to post the finished version of the song (not that I thought you weren't planning to). I will definitely check it out. Even if I don't identify with the music much, admittedly I'm a bit curious about how your whole vocal production will turn out on this with all of the harmonies etc. that you mentioned.

Old people rule!
Matt
 
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