Win98 or NT4?

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TheFish

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What are the pros & cons of using either Windows 98 or NT? I am able to install either (or both), but I would like to know what others think before I do it. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

The Fish
 
NT is way more stable than 98. I think it is safe to say that the only people who put their trust into 98 are the people that don't know any better (as they should b/c these people would most likely only need their comp for internet/word processing, so it's not a big deal). But when you are talking audio/video NT is much better (Win2000 is also much better than 4.0). Even better than that is Linux, BeOS, and of course Mac.

If you are just in it as a pastime then I am sure 98 would do you fine. You could do a dual-boot between 98/NT which would proabably be the best option b/c then you could try them both out. You will have to install software separately for each OS though (ie. you'll need a lot of disk-space).

i suppose it depends on how much effort you are willing to spend on the project.

yoyoyoyo, Kick it grandma.

mandlelbrot
 
mandelbrot has some good points here. Although I do differ with the unproven OS's being better than NT in a audio workstation environment. NT has a "proven" track record in audio production. 2000 is too new to comment on at this time. It may or may not work better. It probably at worst won't be any worse than NT 4.0 The others he listed, with the exception of Mac (which really isn't relevant here even though it is the best environment for audio production) have not supplied any software yet with the full features that windows app's have. So to say that they are a better OS for audio production is basically a myth since they offer no feature rich app's to prove that they work better at the same level.

NT is a superior OS the 95/98. You will have a much harder time finding soundcards that will run on it, but when you do, you can pretty much be assured that you will have a nice system running. Also, I belive that NT has some Direct X limitations. NT also gives you the ability to run a much bigger variety of software without fatal crashes.

A dual boot would be best although unless you have some really hardcore needs from your music production software, it may be totally unnecessary with a computer running NT. If you were to ask Slackmaster 2000 really nice, I think he would supply you with a link to where you can download FAT 32 drivers to use in NT.

Anyway, good luck. It is the season for all to have OS problems as it has been about 4 or 5 months since these kinds of posts have been on this BBS. The time is due for your bi-annual OS install for 95/98, so don't feel bad if your OS is funking out on you.

Ed
 
Thanks guys. The only reson I have my doubts about NT is that I'm a computer network technician. I work with both OS's all the time, and while my work is not audio-related, I have to say how frustrating it can be to tweak NT. I agree that it's a little bit more stable, but when it crashes, it really crashes hard. 95/98 is a bitch and can freeze up, but you can mess around and jerry rig it a lot more than with NT.
I guess I'll go with that dual-boot option. I just think NT is a big pain in the ass, from a professional standpoint.
 
I'd suggest that you install (keep?) W98 and try your stuff on it and then install W2000 on top as dual boot (not upgrade) when it's released. This way you can try it, love it, and then remove W98. If you don't like W2000, you'll always be able to boot W98. I've been running W2000 for months and it hasn't crashed or hung so far. NT4 does apparently have midi- (general?) timing problems so I, and friends of mine, woulnd't recommend that. W2000 rocks but the problem is that not all programs run under it, thus keep 98 until they're upgraded.

/Ola

P.s. Cubase VST24 will apparently be released for W2000:-) d.s
 
Odd that you don't like NT, Fish. I *wish* I was at a point where I could move all of my users to NT. It's an absolute dream compared to 95 when it comes to doing business & networking.

And it's GREAT for recording. The only downside is the lack of drivers when it comes to some pro audio hardware...and crappier PC hardware (generic crap). Buy decent components and you won't have too many troubles.

I used to be very afraid of NT until I forced myself to make the adjustment a few years ago. Once you understand it, configuration is simple and optimization is typically not necessary. It's just a matter of knowing where to look.

NT Server is a different story...but server optimization is difficult regardles of the OS.

I would dual boot NT & 95...that's what I do. It leaves you with the freedom to play games and whatnot, plus gives you the long-term performance & reliability required for recording. (we all know what happens to 95 after you've installed the 5th or 6th application :)

Slackmaster2K
 
I concur with Slackman here. I have found far less troubles using NT than 95. In fact, I really have never had to do much with NT. It has never crashed on me yet!!! I have so many different damn app's on it. If I had half these app's on 95 I doubt that I could even boot it!

But hey, I am no professional when it comes to computers. I just started out with NT and have stuck with it. It has performed honorably for me. I have no complaints except the usual of not being able to find hardware/software as easily. But, the extra few bucks I spend on hardware/software that is compatible with NT is totally worth it when I don't have to keep rebooting all the time and deal with the constant error messages that I experienced with my one go at a serious 95 installation.

You know, I have found that NT is actually easier to install. You just keep clicking next, or yes, and when it is all said and done, it works great right out of the box. With 95, I had to set a whole slew of stuff to keep it from crashing or freezing on me. Also, I am not a fan of plug-n-play at all!! I have found it to be a big pain in the ass. In NT, I just install the new hard ware, boot up, install the driver, and bang!!! good to go. With 95, I always had problems getting drivers to install properly.

TheFish, I am not sure why you have so many problems with NT at work. You are the first network type person I have ever heard complain about NT. I have several friends in the biz, and every single one told me that NT would be a breeze compared to 95/98. They tell me endless stories about 95/98 workstations going to hell in a hurry from installing just one extra app. But, they never complain about NT Workstation. They complain about Server, but the complain about UNIX too!!! So, whatever that means to you.

I am here to tell you that a NT workstation is the prefered OS for serious audio production. This comes from talking to reps, sales people, tech support, etc....

Ed
 
ola, while 98 offers some nice improvements over 95, saying it is better is not neccessarily true. There where many things changed that make 98 in a lot of ways a worse OS for music production.

Which version of either is important. Whether you install the IE browser is another.

All in all, 95 ver. C with all the updates does offer a very stable platform, not as stable as NT, but a significant improvement over earlier versions.

98 version 1 seems to have a whole slew of problems. A friend who does network administration actually advised staying clear of 98 except for evaluation purposes. His experience with it left him baffled how yet again, MS could hype something that is so totally unworthy of praise.

I posted a reply in another post about how I wish I could afford BBE's marketing team to market my studio. They have so many people thinking their products are so good. Reality suggests otherwise. This whole 98 being better than 95 is similar. Many I think want to believe that, so they do. Just my thoughts on this.... :)

Ed
 
I wouldn't use W95 for anything at all. Upgrade to W98 (or better, reinstall from scratch).

/Ola
 
98 IS 95 with goodies....and it's much harder to install. They included a lot of drivers, that's for sure...but when the 98 installation program runs into trouble, it's a pain in the ass. Of 5-10 98 installations I've done, I think 3 of them crapped. Win95B & C were a breeze to install...they keep trying to make easy tasks easier, thereby making them harder.

You should try installing NT Server SBS with hardware that's not on the "recommended" list. Damn I hate "auto" installations!

Slackmaster 2000
 
I think the confusion here is in the application. Win95/98 is for the mainstream. NT is 95/98 with enhanced security and most importantly geared towards networking. No big diff. Could never figure out why some people are so down on 95/98. Only time I see it having problems is with sub-par hardware. That will happen regardless of the OS.

Win9X is certainly no worse for music production than NT. NT is not designed and never meant for this in the first place.

[This message has been edited by Emeric (edited 02-02-2000).]
 
You're missing the point emeric. NT was BUILT to be NT. It didn't start out as DOS and the move to Windows and then eventually become Windows95. The only similarities between NT and 95 is the interface and some of the API's which are COMPATIBLE, not identical. Maintaining backward compatibility has its downside!

NO operating system was built for recording. A good operating system will perform well regardless of the software you throw at it. Yes NT provides better networking support and has better file system security if you're using NTFS...but it's much more than that. It's efficient with just about everything.

It's main downside is that most "cool" hardware & software is designed for 95/98 because that's what most people use. Plus NT requires more resources, which was a problem several years ago. Remember when 32MB was a lot of memory?

The reason that MS created Windows 2000 (NT5) is because they wanted an OS with the benefits of NT and the friendliness of 95. Now that the average consumer PC is capable of running NT, they're set...and it should be a nice system.

I have found NT to be more efficient and more stable over the long term than 95.

Slackmaster2K
 
I am with Slack on this one Emeric. While I may not be able to write a technical paper about the differences between 96 1/2 (95/98 splitting the difference... :))and NT, NT is what windows should have been in the beginning. The similarities stop at the GUI stuff.

I tried a 95 install once. Without ever getting past the 3rd Application install I was hanging and having to reboot. I almost paid a shrink to help me through my anxiety of using 95. Every time I booted it I had a panic attack from all the error messages.

With NT, I can go weeks without a stall, a hiccup, a burp, a blemish. I have to try really hard to get NT to crash. In fact, I have to open IE5, Outlook Express, ICQ, Photoshop LE, Goldwave, Cakewalk, and maybe a couple more app's all at the same time before my computer will hang. Try that on 95/98 (96 1/2). Bet you don't get past the 3rd app running before it stalls and you have to shut down your power to free the machine.

As far as subpar hardware, I don't think this is true. I only use quality hardware on my machine. Always have. Regardless, 95 just hangs when you try to do anything it seems.

I would consider myself a power user of a computer. I demand a lot from my machine. I don't like to wait for a certain function to get done before I start another. I just start clicking things. While in NT things may slow down a bit, it seldomly hangs. In 95, it stalls. I have had very little luck with Task Manager in 95. I ctrl-alt-delete, and it just hangs some more. In NT, I have only had one time where Task Manager failed to work.

I did not believe before I started using NT that Windows would be a very good OS. Any version. When NT was recommended to me by some other power users, I scoffed at first. But I gave it a try. I have never looked back. When was the last time you seen me post something complaining about my OS taking a dump on me? In fact, I just seen the first post ever on here a couple of days ago with any troubles with NT, and it turns out that it is really a n-tracks problem, because I had a similar situation as was described with n-tracks. So I would think n-tracks is the problem. No other software, except cheapy crap has ever had a problem on NT with me. But alot of this same software would hang 95 in a second. Bad software? Maybe. But I tend to think that a well functioning OS will work with software to it's fullest. NT does this. 95/98 don't.

Just had another long conversation with a friend tonight who is a LANS manager for a law firm that is MS main outside counsel. This guy gets MS support at the highest levels possible. The subject of 95/98 came up. He just could not bring himself to recommend either for a serious workstation. He gets to see this stuff work at a hugh variety of user levels. He seldom has problems with the NT users. He spends most of his day dealing with the 95 computers in the office. He won't even install 98 because he has recieved nothing but bad reports about it.

With all the post's on this BBS, as well as many ICQ chat's I have had with people, the common denominator seems to be the 95/98 OS. Every person I have chatted with who is using NT never has a complaint. We usually have a good laugh about our past bad experiences with 95.

You will never know the difference until you see the difference.

I knew not one damn thing about installing OS when I first installed NT on a computer. I put the disk in, booted the computer, and clicked on YES, and CONTINUE. Bam!!! Done. It worked great. Didn't have to go through a bunch of crap to get it going. It didn't start crashing when I started installing applications. The only time I ever had trouble with a NT install is when I started fiddleing around with it. Started trying to do things that it didn't recommend. Half the time the only way I could get 95 to even run was to fiddle with it. Do you call that easier? More reliable? More user friendly? I call it a scam!!!

I will defend NT as a superior PC OS. There is not one OS available for a PC that can even touch it.

Peace.

Ed
 
I'm with you all the way sonusman, except for your second to last statement. W2000 kicks NT butt:-) I can't wait until you pro-NT guys try it.

I don't know midi but I'm told, W2000 does not have the timing problems that NT has(?). I can't check it though, don't know the first thing about midi.

Cheers

/Ola
 
NT SUCKS ASS, I hate Nt it the worst piece of crap ever written. I hope that Bill Gates goes to Hell for ever creating it. What service pack are they on now eight? Evertime they come with a new sevice pack if skrews it up even more. Anyone who sticks up for Nt must a god damn MCSE. MCSE's are nothing but loosers whom are to stupid to go to college. So instead they go to a class for 8 weeks. Take a few tests. I will never sell my soul to microsoft. They Suck, Skrew them.

The Captain
 
Well, I realize that you're just sticking your nose in here because you're young... and it's fun to be a scab in "cyberspace". But I decided to reply anyway.

In my experience, 99% of people who can't keep NT running are lazy or incompetent. I've heard ridiculous stories.."NT Server sucks...it crashes on me every week!" Man, when I first installed NT Server I was getting some crashes. It upset me so I FIXED them. Shit, it wasn't that big of a deal. I now have a server running Exchange 5.5, Proxy 2.0, SQL 7, IIS, Fax Server, MAS90 3.21, etc etc.....it has 2 modems that are not on the "recommended hardware" list and is connected to a serial UPS device that it's not supposed to work with. 2 SCSI hard drives, 2 CDROM drives, a 20GB tape drive, etc etc etc...

It NEVER crashes. Exchange crashes every now and then but I just restart it (exchange, not the server)...and actually I think I have that fixed because I haven't had a problem for a couple months.

You are the kind of person who would take his car to the junk yard because of a flat tire.

Every single NT service pack has been better than the last. Adding support. Fixing minor glitches.

You know why NT is so tricky? Hardware support. You show me one other OS that has the hardware support of Windows. MacOS? Hardly. Mac users still think Marathon is cool. The fact that the disposable iMacs are so popular makes my point. Solaris? Not quite. Linux? Almost.

Slackmaster 2000
 
The Captain,

Hardly can anyone bait me into name calling. You certainly will not. But in light of your post, consider that I will follow you around this BBS and tear apart anything you say.

Losers? I have two years of college. Have technical training from the ARMY. I ALSO OWN A RECORDING STUDIO THAT MAKES MONEY THAT WAS DESIGNED, WIRED, AND RUN BY MYSELF. You are of course invited to visit my website, one that I didn't pay anyone to build at www.echostarstudio.com and you are quite welcomed to download hi res mp3 files of stuff I have recorded and mixed from www.echostarstudio.com/Download.html . Loser? Not a term anyone has associated to me yet.

You are also invited to read some technical papers, or essays if you will, www.echostarstudio.com/Info.html . Stay tuned to this BBS to read some stuff that is being published on here also.

Grow up my man. You have entered a place that has a lot more depth than you can ever imagine.

So to show how silly your post is, I will challenge something you said. NT constantly updates it's Service Packs bacause of the growing number of things that people are trying to do with their computers. New software and hardware requires that the OS is able to function with it all, any combination. The idea of the Service Pack is to bring the OS up to date with what it needs to work with all these different services the computer is going to need to do. The fact that NT HAS a a Service Pack is testament to how good the OS really. The OS can be upgraded to work with so many new things. Show me another OS that makes it so easy to upgrade. Show me another OS that allows you to upgrade it for free with so little hassle. Sure, some services get defaulted to something other than what you wanted when a new Service Pack is installed. But as Slack says, anyone who can't keep NT running are lazy or imcompetant. I keep NT running without any college courses in computers, or even a trade school. I am just a little dummy guy in little ol' Portland Or. who dabbles a bit with electronics.... :) But, I keep NT running just fine. Hell, I could probably increase the performance of it with just a little bit of research, but really haven't found a need for that. I can't remember that last time I was at MS KB looking for a NT answer. No need for me as I research and buy quality software and hardware for my setup.

So little man, watch out. This little city boy here don't take too kindly to insults. Especially from someone who hasn't presented even one credential. For all we know, you are just some little degenerate half breed who still uses ver A of 95 and AOL, and hasn't had a girlfriend ever. For all we know, you have your pet donkey type these kinds of silly posts for you. For all we know, you are in prison somewhere stewing because you got caught doing your neigbors sheep. We don't know. But you seem to offer quite a opinion, and sure are unabashed at throwing around insults to people who have a point of view you don't share. So come on bud, what are you? Are you a child molestor taking a break from the kiddie chat rooms and pissed because AOL Ver.5.0 is chewing up your RAM. Are you a poor Mc Donalds fry cook who is bored and needing to say the things behind a ISP connection that you don't have the balls to say to your bosses face? Or are you maybe Bill Gates ex roommate in college, and really pissed because you thought Windows would never work? Fill us in. Present to the many fine people who have posted here your credentials. Let us know who you are. Maybe I could excuse your brash a bit if you could prove that you have some worthwhile thing to contribute other than insults at some pretty smart people.

Scab. That seems apt.

Ed Rei
Echo Star Studio www.echostarstudio.com
 
I will tell what I am you pile of steaming monkey crap. I am a novell CNE. You pathetic Microsoft loyalist. Who the hell are you Bill Gates personal ass licker? NT blows, You shouldn't have to keep rebooting a server and reinstalling service packs every time you change something. A novell server will stay up for years without any maintance at all. Also Exchange is the worst mail server on gods green earth. Lotus notes is the way to go. Don't tell what works, and what doesn't I have been working this field since before you were born kid. Do understand that Wackmaster, and Sinuscheese.. You two are obviously butt buddys, who like the smell of ass in the mouning. Bring it you retarded morons. Let see if you have any balls.


The Captain
 
And in the finest tradition of cyber f*ckoffs who don't know shit, you speak again. So you run a little old novel piece of crap. "Let's see, I can serve a bunch of piece of crap systems with applications that can barely compute addition, and it will never crash". I am impressed. So what!!!

Tell me, o' rude one, what do you know about recording? What do you know about recording software? What do you know about anything except sitting around bitching? Probably not much after that. Let's hear some mixes you have done in a novel system!!! I am sure that in all your years of working on file servers you have probably a fine collection of songs that you have recorded on Lotus Notes... :) Bring it on. I am bored today. I will download your mp3's and take a listen. If my ears could take the pain of crap... :D

But, in the finest tradition of dumbf*cks that choose to throw the insults around, you probably don't have a thing to contribute musically. In fact, I doubt that you have anything to contribute as an alternative to using NT for music production except possibly the old stand by of using OS8 or any of that other Mac junk. You know why I know this? Because you have exactly posted twice on this BBS. You only posted on one thread. I doubt that we would ever see another post by you in any of the others because you don't know diddly crap about music production. You spent all your years behind the keyboard telling everyone how wrong they are about whatever was being talked about.

In the scant chance that you actually HAVE even recorded one piece of music on a computer, or any other storage, pretty good bet it sucks. Engineering for audio is a skill that requires a thirst for learning, something you obviously don't have considering your rediculous post's so far. I doubt that you are even a good network administrator. Obviously, you have never excelled in anything. Unless nonesense is a commodity.

Run along little boy. I have tired of you all ready. Your lack of tact and obvious ignorance have bored me.

Also, keep posting here and you will find a mail box full of nifty stuff. I have some tricks you will never figure out. I would hate for you to have to wait 2 hours everytime you logged on to do anything with your computer..... :) Don't consider this a threat friend. I have a good mind to do it anyway just for the fun of it. People like you deserve special treatments, and that is my living, catering to peoples needs.... :)

Oh, and about butt buddies. LOL When was the last time you could even look at yours, or your penis. Probably been awhile with all that sitting around eating Twinkies and posting in the kiddie chats. Do you have your food delivered so you don't miss a word? Will your car haul your weight?



[This message has been edited by sonusman (edited 02-03-2000).]
 
Hey, I'M the one who chases away the new guys around here... There could be copyright problems.
 
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