Win2000? Suck

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camn

camn

Active member
Win 2000? Suck?

Damnit!! Does win2000 suck ass? I ask merely for information, you understand.

I just did a clean install. (it had been 8 months since mast last, and things were f876ing up.) So I put in win 2000. Now I WANNA hear " NO you ninny!! You need to under average the dynamo buffer with that co-powerdoodle!!"... but here goes.

Its slow.
It lags.
it wont let me use my dual-monitor ness.
It has WEIRD video artifacts.
And this is the second time ive had to type this cuz it f876ed up last time.
I haven't even recorded with it yet...

Any advice/opinions/suggestions would be much appreciated...

xoxo

ps

asus P2B-F
Celly 366 o/cd to 412
256 MB RAM
2HD.. 8G5400 20G7200
Primary video card= ATI Rage Pro
Secondary Vid Card = S3 Virge GX OR Trident 9682 (both suck.)
 
I think W2k is the only good thing from MS. It rocks, if you have drivers for all your hardware.

What is slow and what lags? Does your videocard have W2k drivers? Have you installed the service/hw-compatibility pack? Have you installed the latest drivers from your HW manufacturers? Have you upgraded your BIOS?

Have you installed all nifty options that are available? If so, you're asking for it. It's a huge OS and has a lot of resource hogging whatsmacallits that runs in the background. Unistall everything that you don't need and you might see some improvements.

Are all your HW components happy overclocked?

What do you mean by "weird video artifacts"?

/Ola
 
camn-
I use Win2k at home and office and really enjoy it both places. I have ran with 2 videocards and not had a problem at all. I also have been successfully recording with a Win2k machine. BUT, the minimum PC I have used with it was a P3 700. I think it may be eating resources from your cely, mayve someone can prove me wrong, though. I did try to install it on a P2 233mmx and it didn't like it very much, i put NT back on that machine. It SAYS the min requirement is a P166, but....

Hope it works out, 2k is a great OS!

H2H
 
I don't think the CPU is the problem. Win2k ran quite happily on my Celeron 333 (oc to 375), just had a couple hardware compatability problems so I went back to 98 (this was a few months ago). In fact, even before that I installed it on a PII 266 at work and it ran great. I think that one had 96MB of RAM and my Celeron had 128.

My biggest issues with win2k have been hardware and even software compatability. MOTU has no 2k drivers for their interfaces, I have an older Adaptec SCSI card that happens to be about the only one they don't even plan on supporting on Win2k, there are some games that run like shit on it, and I have one application that just won't install on it (Corel Draw 8). I'll stick with Windows ME, which is a significant improvement over 98 (for me, anyway - I've heard stories to the contrary from others) but none of the pitfalls of 2k.
 
okok... maybe I should stick it out.

I have 2000 drivers for everything...but I cant get dual monitors with any combination of the three cards I have.

It lags... like if I open a zip file... it will take about 35 seconds to open the extractor program. I onstalled Service pack 1 last night... and the extraction (not the download) took over two hours. The weird thing is that it seemed to lag the most in the background.. when it was the top window it went pretty fast.

Yo, Im all about disabling weirs background stuff... tell me more, tell me more.

And WHATS WITH THE IRQS????

I forgot to write this the second time...

It assigned SIX devices to IRQ 9!!!
And it wont let me change them!!
Ive even assigned 9 to legacy... it dont care.
Ive assigned my pci slots to other IRQs on the board... it doesnt care? Workaround?

thanks you guys..

sleepless in seattle

xoxo
 
weird video artifacts....

for instance.. Ill click my "homerecording.com" bookmark, right.. and the page will load.. but the hilighted bookmark will stay planted in the middle of my screen for a while (25sec or so)

I think its all about the IRQs.. but I have no solution.

xoxo
 
I just installed win2k.So far I am not having any of the other problems you mentioned Camn,but mine also assigned 6 devices to irq9.AGP card,usb ports,soundcard,ehternet card,and some system device.This does seem odd,but there's no reported conflicts.But It will not let me override the automatic settings so I can assign an irq manually.One other problem i've noticed in win2k so far(other than some software and games not working right)is a long pause when I try to access the other computer I have networked with this one.It seems to take too long to get in,but it does get in there.So far win2k feels more stable than ME did.It just doesn't always work with everything I try.In windows ME I was having alot of crashes,and the machine would suddenly reboot for no reason every once in awhile.
 
suck? yes.

camn, my 2 pesetas: depends on what you are comparing it to. Look at Mac bbs's (not this one, for some reason). You don't hear Mac users complaining about IRQ's. Fact is, I was running Digital performer, Pro Tools, Sound Designer, Sample Cell, and some other stuff on my Mac 7500 for around 6 years, and never even heard of anything remotely resembling IRQ. The only technical problem I ever ran into was running out of disk space. I was just rapping to a guy that used to work in a Mac based studio and has since switched to one that uses PC/Cakewalk/Sonic Foundry etc.-- says he's now much less happy. Things he used to take for granted have turned into daily nightmares, down time is out of hand. Hearing his sad tale has furthered my resolve to get a G4 for recording, even though it is more expensive. Unfortunately I also want Gigasampler, which only runs on Windows/Intel (but not Win2K!)-- guess Ill be stuck flailing away at IRQs in your company, whatever the hell they are. I doubt that this will help you, but good luck anyway, camn.
 
GOD mac people PISS ME OFF.

My mom drives to work every day and doesn't know what a catalytic converter is, too... but thats cuz she's ignorant, not because her three cylinder peice of shite is better than my truck, you stupid #$^%.

The cool thing about Windows is that YOU ACTUALLY HAVE OPTIONS!! I can control how my system works, not the other way around. EXCEPT, aparently, in 2000 Pro. (though, if it didn't suck, it seemed SO promising) It all goes back to the best advice I ever had. If it says Professional on it.. odss are no Professional ever uses it.


Jerry, nothing personal, mind you, but KISS MY ASS.:) Im back to the 98 beta that Ive been using forever and ITS ROCK SOLID, FLEXIBLE and COMPATIBLE with everything. AND I have RIGHT CLICK MENUS!!!

xoxo

ps.. PC complaint.."My IRQs are missassigned!! Help!!"
Mac Complaint.."It just gives me a frowny face when I press 'on'! Help!!"
 
total different setting: biolaboratory.

still: point is the same heavy apps.

Mac: needs to be started like 5 times before running like it should. (i mean pushing the 'ON' button 1, 2... 5 times with a two minute pause inbetween)

Pc: runs weird shit everyone' s in awhile. BUT IT STARTS.

Omly had bad experience with mac. Why do people like 'm?

guhlenn.

ps i should state that i've only used it for about 3 months (the mac i mean).
 
sorry your mom's ignorant...

camn,
-check out http://www.winmag.com/win2000/insider/2000/01.htm
and
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~ralf/files.html
maybe that will help.
---------
PS: I have been a programmer analyst for 17 years, and have programmed on mainframes, MS DOS, Windows 3.1, NT, Unix, Linux. I have used Assembler, C, C++, SQL, Perl, HTML and a bunch of other languages. In high school I was in a computer club, and PCs weren't even invented yet-- we used a mini, a card reader and punch cards. I was the second fastest programmer in the group-- the first one on to become a Physicist at Princeton University. I got a Bachelors Degree in computer science from the City University of New York. I have written a C++ test that is currently used in one of the major recruitment firms in NYC. Trust me, I know computers. I have owned at least 6 of them. Trust me, I know what an IRQ is. IRQs are hardware lines over which devices can send interrupt signals to the microprocessor.

A mac may not be a very macho machine, but it is, and always has been a far better box than any PC, ever was. Mac operating systems have always, and probably always will surpass anything out of Microsoft. Do you have more control over windows 98-- sure. I have more control over DOS interrupt vectors than you have over Windows 98 -- but so what? I can code in assembly, so what? Is it going to make my music better? Will it afford me more creativity? productivity?

On another note, camn, before I forget, thanks for the Roland Space Echo recommendation... I got one off of Ebay & just love it. Good luck. Im sure you'll make win2K jump through hoops.

peace,
jk
 
Macs?

Hey Jerry,

I don't know too much about computers, but I can find my way around them pretty good. Since you sound experienced I have a question. If Macs are so much better than PC's why is almost everything compatible with a PC, and almost nothing compatible with Mac? I haven't found anything that I would like to use on my PC incompatible, and I am running Windows 98se.
 
Damn, jerry, those were some keen articles.

I think my biggest problem with Win2000 is that its too MUCH like the Mac OS.

I WANT to be able to change my IRQs.. I WANT to be able to fuck up my machine cuz I asked it to do something I shouldnt have. I love overclocking, and some of the most fun I ever had was Installing the WRONG divers onto devices. I dont like something unless I can piss in it first.. then I like the flavor better. I dont have a guitar I havent modded, or an amp, or a computer.

And, yes, that fact does make my music better, and it does make my recordings better.. because I have mastery over my tools. My guitar does EXACTLY what I want it to, and my computer's gonna do the same thing.

oh, and jerry, nothing personal, but why do computer people think that just cuz they know comuters.. that their opinion is worth anything?? ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE IS INSIGNIFIGANT. The first rule of processing data, if you ask me.

xoxo

ps.. I loved DOS. I hated windows. I hated 95. I hated 98. and I hate 2000.
On the contrary, I love OS 6. I loved OS 5.. everytime a new mac OS comes out I say "THANK GOD!! Maybe they'll get it right this time! :)"
 
not that it matters to this thread but just out of curiousty (ok, wrong spelled...;)) i had OS2 on my pc ones... uhmmm thinking hard here... don't know anymore but it was SHIT anyway. Does anyone know what that was then? (replaced it later for windows95 and then for dos 6.1 :):):))

i liked dos soooooo much.

guhlenn
 
OK, I think I might be a (God help me) "computer person". And no, I don't think my opinion means anything. Which is exactly why I'm going to hang it out anyways....

First, I don't care what Win OS you have, having six devices share the same IRQ is sick and wrong. No wonder you have video strangeness and lag. I'm surprised the damn thing boots at all.

Second, any MS Windows from 3.1 on up through Win 2000 can work reliably IF you have good drivers and don't run (or even install) a boatload of software crap onto it. Between my day job and home I run every version of Windows, and I chose Windows 98SE for my DAW. I have had one crash in 6 months, that when I tried to record too many tracks at once with not enough RAM (since adding more RAM it has been perfect).

About MACs: I like them, although I don't own one and probably would not buy one. I have historically found them to be over priced. The reason they are over priced, and then reason there is so much more hardware and software for the PC, is that years ago Apple made a decision to not make the machine hardware & software open or accessable to developers. There have never been a mulitude of MAC clones to make the system cheaper and more popular. And Apple has kept tight rein on developers, which has meant that fewer people want to write for the platform (although it also probably kept a lot of crappy software from being written). Like Camn I enjoy the options I have with PCs, I accept the fact that I will occasionally have headaches trying to get this moutain of available hardware and software to work together.

Camn, if you have made a game effort at trouble shooting, are sure your hardware is good, are sure you have good drivers for your hardware, and the damn thing still will not work, I would say start over with Win98 or Millenium. Or NT4. Whatever best suits what you plan to do with the system, and (most importantly) whatever system you feel most comfortable with.
 
camn: I have linux on my laptop. I like it.

soundprizm: I didn't mean to ignore you, its just that this issue has been beaten about quite to death (just search on 'mac')and I figure most folks here are horribly sick of this stuff (camn, don't read the following).

I will add to what RWhite and others have said. You (soundprizm) say: "almost everything is compatible with a PC, and almost nothing compatible with Mac" and "you haven't found anything that you would like to use on your PC 'incompatible'". The explanation for this is fairly straightforward, and is due to the historical development paths of the two platforms. I actually find it to be a very facinating story. (Most people on this BBS know all this, so y'all don't have to read it.) In the early eighties, Apple designed Mac to be a high end "micro", w/ bit mapped graphics, desktop publishing, stuff that had previously only been the domain of specialized workstations. I actually did some development for the Mac before it was released to the public (although most of my work since has been on PCs). Macs were considered increadibly cool then. Caught behind the eight ball, and not wanting to miss out on a new cash cow, IBM quickly countered with the IBM PC. Big Blue's (IBM's) strategy: a simple open architecture, a simple command line interface, use 3rd parties for software development, and mainly get it out the door, ASAP. IBM was the primo monolith computer hardware company back then: just mentioning it's name carried such overpowering clout in the business world that everyone figured a decisive victory was at hand. IBM also geared up for what they thought their key audience needed: better business machines, primarily better word processors. They were probably more interested in killing Wang at the time as opposed to duking it out with Apple. IBM manufactured PC hardware, wrote PC BIOS, but most other PC software, including the operating system itself was delegeted to 3rd parties. As RWhite said, at the same time Mac hardware and OS and was all tightly controlled by Apple-- all Mac based apps had to fit very neatly into the Apple Vision and standards. Their machines were higher end-- elitist-- and featured specialized "toolbox" graphics software (rom) and hardware. Macs sold well in universities. The seeds of the disparity between the two platforms, that you have noted, were thus sown, way back then. PCs had no graphics, ran several DOS flavors, had several hardware configurations, but despite this, American business embraced Big Blue, probably 'cause of its reputation. I started doing only PC work around that time. IBM wanted to sell lotsa hardware, so it was all kept very simple and open. Software developers were then being played against one another, and already PC operating system compatability problems were multiplying. I'm leaving out the whole networking here-- another day perhaps. Gates then somehow got the IBM PC to standardize on MSDOS, which he quickly forged into an inpenetrable layer of software. His dominion had begun. His operating system quickly became its own market. IBM then made several other bad decisions. I don't know all the details here, but, PC clones arrived on the scene, and IBM, once considered to be one of the most secure organizations in the world found itself practically dismembered by this whole thing. Turning the tables on the hardware giant, Gates then built the ever so pathetic Windows 3.1 directly on TOP of MSDOS, and before anyone even noticed, he managed to monopolize his newly created PC graphical operating systems market. He then forged the alliance with Intel. Events following that resulted in even more exponential profits for Bill, and some really crappy software for everyone else. Gates played all kinds of masterful games. He simultaneously kept one of his system doors open when he wasn't trying to compete in a particular software area, and slammed another shut when he yearned to devour a particular opponent. Going on in this manner he managed for a decade to stay several steps ahead, and in so doing became the richest man in the world-- and his windows platforms have always been fraught with a legacy of instability for all these reasons. I am not saying that all Microsoft Software sucks and that Steve Jobs is a saint. Nor am I saying that Macs dont have bugs. Apple certainly paid a heavy price elitism, closing their architecture off, and bad marketting. Anyway, you ask why things are the way they are, and these are the reasons. PCs and MS have gotten better, to be sure, but their embattled legacy and the Gate's original 'suck' philosophy remains: too much priority on the $, not enuf on the product. That's why they've always been cheaper, and also why most people who understand computers think they suck. But they're cheaper. And they work well, I guess, if you set them up right, and you can hack into it if you need to. I'm being serious. It's a tool, all tools are limited, but in the hands of a master it will work wonders.

peace,
jk

(ps someone make me shut up)
 
lets talk about linux, eh?

I know very little about linux... but I hear it rules, and stuff. Whats the real deal? can i run dual monitors on it, and record, or what? whats the story?

xoxo
 
The story is that it's a rock-steady OS with all the flexibility you need. And it's free.

Can't beat that can you? But wait, there's one catch...there are no HW drivers or applications:)

/Ola
 
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