Why Is Digital Recording So Complicated?

M

Mark H.

New member
I hope no one actually dies laughing from reading my title question.

I'm 52, reasonably well educated, somewhat computer literate, smarter than average. However, every time I read a thread here on the Computer Recording and Soundcard forum, I feel like I've suddenly had a major stroke.

Here are a few questions:

1.) What's the easiest, most reliable (reasonably priced) way to record to a computer's hard drive?

2.) If you have an outboard stereo mic preamp and A/D converter (the $300 Dennecke / Zefiro In-Box comes to mind), do you need a sound card? How do you get it into your computer? How does your computer know what to do with it?

3.) What does a sound card do?

4.) What is a break-out box?

5.) Why isn't all this shit plug-and-play?

The part that makes me crazy is that all you guys know a thousand times more about this stuff than I do, but you seem to be still having problems with it, even after lots of consideration, careful selection, and practice using it. What's going on?

Is there any inexpensive way to make good quality computer-based recording un-complicated? ("inexpensive" = *not* turn-key systems)

I sincerely appreciate your patience and assistance!

Mark H.
 
It's not the actual digital recording that is difficult.. It's the interface used that poses different levels of difficulty...

You just have to find which interface you understand the easiest... For me, it's Pro Tools LE...

I didn't know a damn thing about computers and when I bought Pro Tools LE, I was rolling in a hour or so... very simple...

Pro tools works on the system of common sense... rather than having a really thick manual... Everything just sort of works the way you'd expect it to work..

Joe
 
Mark,

For a first time user it may seem to be complicated, but it's really not. It just takes some time to get used to it. A soundcard designed for recording is the interface that gets the audio into your PC. It can be different bit depth such as 16bit or 24bit.
The software is the virtual mixer and editor for multitracking.
Basically look at it as a software form of a hardware mixing console. In addition there are programs for adding effects,etc.
A lot of the posts you read are questions about problems people are having with there setup. This is what these forums are for, to help find answers. I hope this is helpful, as Im trying to answer in the simplist way without confusion as there is an enormous amount of details I left out.
 
I know exactly how you feel. Two years ago I bought my first Sound on Sound magazine, read every page, looked at all the adverts.....and understood nothing! It may well have been written in Martian for what it meant to me.

But I persevered, read more, made myself a nuisence on HoRec, spent a little money, learnt a bit more, spent some more cash, ........you get the picture.

And now I can get fairly decent recordings, mix it with a bit of midi and am happy with the progress I have made so far. Which is about one zillionth of what Blue Bear knows.

You do need a sound card to get your signals into your computer in a format it recognizes, a break out box provides more inputs and outputs (Mic and instrument) that you could get on your little PC card back panel of your soundcard. This usually only has one input, not enough if you want to record vocals and a guitar, for example. The preamp lifts the signal level to a higher level, making for a "hotter" input signal. This is good, makes life easier for your soundcard to deal with.

Just to make you laugh, this is all (well, mostly) Plug and Play! Except it doesn't always work out like that. There are too many system configurations to deal with, and it all affects the system performance.

Don't let these forums put you off, there are millions of people out there making music on a strict budget, this forum is a great resource for learning, it has done a great job for me.

So my advice is stick with it, take it a step at a time and use these forums. And don't forget to make music:D
 
Mark H. said:



Is there any inexpensive way to make good quality computer-based recording un-complicated?
Click to expand...

No! As long as Bill Gates and Microsoft is the biggest player in the affordable PC system it will be difficult.

Probably the easiest thing to do is have someone make a website that outlines the basics with pictures. I figured it out, which means just about anyone should be able to figure it out with a little help.

The sound card is a circuit board that contains digital to analog converters and analog to digital converters. It also contains input and output connectors of various types, preamplifiers, usually a midi device handler as a minimum. It usually is located within the CPU case as a card plugged into the main board.

A break out box is really nothing more than a remote interface for the sound card so you arent continually behind your CPU where the dust bunnies live.

Nothing is plug and play with Windows (Its a lie), try a Mac.

If you just want simple, make sure your system requirements and the software is compatible. Check the Software website for what hardware it supports as well as minimum system for running the whole ball of wax. Decent Hardrive rpm's and enough ram kind of things. You might want to start with just a mic plugged into the soundcard and N-Track. One thing to remember, try to go slow and ask questions as you go, document what you learn and mark setting down, it can be like a rat in maze with getting things configured. I don't know anything about your preamp situation so I can't comment on that. I hope this was somewhat helpful.

Peace,
Dennis
 
Think of each piece of equipment as a translator. Loosely like this...

-A Microphone tranlates your voice to an electrical (analog) signal.

-This goes into an A/D converter. This translates the electrical analog signal to a digital one.

-This then goes into the sound card, which translates the digital signal into something the computer can understand.

-The computer then takes that information and translates it, via the software program, into something you can understand (hopefully) and manipulate. Like Stealthtech said, think of the software is a virtual mixer (along with effects processors).

Depending on setups, more steps could be added or subtracted from (some examples will come shortly...)

1) find a program that works easiest for you (try out some demos). Although I've had no experience with it, I've heard Vegas is pretty simple and straight forward. It will take a bit of learning though, no matter what.

2) Yes you will need a sound card, like I detailed in the chain above. However, most pro sound cards already come with a A/D converter. Sometimes they are a separate box with various audio jacks, sometimes they are just jacks coming straight from the sound card. So I wouldn't buy a separate A/D converter until you know what soundcard you want.

To install a soundcard, open up your computer and you'll see a series of green boards connected perpendicularily to a big board. Your soundcard will plug into the same kind of slot as most of your other cards (ie. modem, LAN, factory sound card, etc.). It's called a PCI slot. Plug it in one of those and boot up your computer. PCI cards are plug and play so your computer should automatically recognize it. Note: you will not be able to plug it into the wrong slot, they only fit where they are supposed to. It will ask to install drives from a disk (which should be included with the card) however. Also while doing this try to touch metal to ground yourself; static electricity can damage the card.

3) tranlates digital audio signal into something your computer can understand.

4) I have no idea...

5) Most of it is plug and play, at least the computer cards.

Of course there are small minor discrepencies to what I said above but that's the basics.

Here's probably the simplest option I've heard. The MOTU 828 or 896. These two cards have preamps (2 for the 828, 8 for 896), an A/D converter, and sound card, all in one box. It hooks up via firewire. So all you do is plug your instrument into it, plug the box into your firewire port on your computer, and then get some editing software (which should automatically recognize your card) and you're in business. However, not all computers have firewire on them, but you can get a PCI card (installed the same way as a sound card) that gives you 2 firewire ports.

A computer setup can be very fiesty and cause a lot of problems because you are trying to get a bunch of parts to work together at the same time, but at the same time it offers much more flexibility than a non-computer system, which is why so many people use them.

Hope this helps,
-Sal
 
Digital Recording is not so hard

Digital Recording is not so hard, only getting started is. Once you jump that first hurdle then you will be like...

"Digital recording hard? Shit, I remember when I had to worry about tape noise and tape saturation, or weather or not I could punch in and out with out the pops and clicks of analog."

Ok here are a few answers to your questions that I hope will break things down.

1: The sound card is simply the translator7communicator between the real world and the Hard Disk of a PC or Mac. it is simply a PCB (printed circuit board) that shoves into a PCI slot and takes the analog signal from your guitar and converts the Analog signal to Digital (binary i.e. 010010110100101101001100) codes that can be stored on the hard disc. Then later on when, you want to, the same sound card will change the digital ones and zeros back into an analog signal which is called (reconstructing the analog signal via a digital to analog converter)
One of the tricky things that has made home Digital recording some easy and affordable is the introduction a long time ago of what is called "full-duplex" sound cards. All this means is that you can be recording a signal i.e. guitar or vocal... and the sound card will be doing it's analog to digital conversion... and at the same time the sound card will be reconstructing previously recorded signals back so that you can listen to (monitor) guitar track 1 while you record guitar track 2. 12 or so tracks later you are a one man band. You don't have to look for this feature though... it is standard on all music sound cards. Without this feature it would be worthless.

2: A breakout box...
A breakout box is something that often come with a sound card. It is a total pain in the ass to climb around behind your computer plugging things in and out of a 3 inch x 4 inch sound card that is INSIDE a PC/Mac tower. Plus if you want to have 4 guitars with those 1/4" jacks all plugged in at once along with a couple of XLR microphones with some sweet pre-amps, plus headphoe jacks for monitoring while recordin, and volume controls and phantom power et cetera... Then all that is NOT going to be sticking out of the back of your computer. So some good sound cards come with, or you can purchase seperatly... a breakout box that has all these little gadgets and Ins/outs, pre-amps, trim knobs, aux sends. Some are quite elaborate and some are quite simple... almost cute. Go to:
http://www.midiman.com/products/m-audio/omnistud.php
This is the sound card/breakout box that I have. It costs around $300 I think, and it is marketed as a "complete studio solution". And it certainly is all that it claims to be... if you are a one man band on a budget. If you are wanting to record a full on drum kit or a stringed orchestra... well then you have no use for this little thing. It has 2 microphone pre-amps that are also guitar pre-amps... 2 "line in" inputs if you already have some outboard pres. Some other niffty stuff. Anyway, you plugg it into the sound card and then you set it on your desktop and it is like your little "in and out box"...Kind of like the wife huh? (Oooooo I am going to hear some mean comments for that one!)

3: Plug and Play: It all can't be plug and play because there are too many companies all jamming things into computers from so many companies that after it is all over there are so many compatiability issues and standards used, drivers being updated. It is all just a mess. BUT... there is light at the end of the tunnel. Most all of the sound card companies are getting their shit together and if you are just honest and tell the guy at the store... "This is what I have... I want to do this... what do I need?
Listen to what he says... write it down... DON'T BUY ANYTHING FROM HIM THAT DAY... come back, post away, ask away, research on the internet... trim off some of the needless shit he wanted to sell you... knock him down $200 and be on your way to being the next Jimmy Hendrix.

4: Do you HAVE to have a sound card. Man, these days, you don't HAVE to do anything it seems. Anyway... people are tired of all this PCI slot sound cards with their driver this, IRQ interupt sharring computer jargon blah blah blah... so now there are coming out almost daily tons of outboard gear that goes into the PC/Mac via some other data exchange toy... (ieee 1394) Firewire, USB (Universal Serial Bus)... all of these are PLUG AND PLAY basically... Plug that sucker into the back of your PC, jam a guitar chord in... and rock on. Here is the newest kind on the block:
http://www.motu.com/
Follow this link and then click on the word/link: MOTU 896
It is a hell of a pretty "Firewire" interface.

Anyway... be mose specific about what you want to do and I can tell you which direction to look. Are yxou a bluegrass fan that wants to record grandma blowing across a jug or are you into rave techno? Ever heard of MIDI? What do you play?

Take Care,

Mike
 
Well Mark, you got some great answers already, so I wont rehash any of that. I'll just add that much of this pC music hardware, at least that which goes INSIDE your PC, is indeed plug-n-play. But PNP is a realitive concept, sort of like "military intelligence". The sheer number of hardware choices available for PC users means that there is always a chance that two pieces of hardware will conflict, and will require some PC knowlage, or at least persistance, to resolve.
 
Mark, you think digital recording is difficult? I take one look at an SSL desk with the built-in automation, mixing from a synced 24-track machine, and I just about faint. I sat in on the mixing of a whole album on one of these things, and I never figured out the most basic things about how the automation system worked.

For the record, a lot of us never have problems with our digital recording systems. Of course, I use Pro Tools and Pro Tools LE(along with Voxvendor). We lose a little bit of flexibility (LE is limited to 24 tracks, neither version works with VST or DirectX plugins). On the other hand, the platform is rock solid and the sound quality is excellent.
 
i find digital recording to be quick and easy...but i've only ever used digital stuff. i've worked with a neve and ssl too with 24 tracks..
 
This is one of the most accurate threads I've seen posed in quite some time. :)

The whole entire process is very user-unfriendly. At least my old multitrack recorder didn't force me to have to be an engineer to operate it. I plug it in, hit record, and it records. I really miss it.

Similarly, I plug my refrigerator in and it works. I put my food in, and it stays cool and fresh. Even my crappy car I find much more reliable. At least I don't get any error messages or system crashes when I make a lefthand turn, hit the brakes or shift gears.

And the only drivers I have to worry about on that are me, and if that driver doesn't work or install properly, at least I know it's my own fault.
 
Kind Friends,

This is the most useful and reassuring information I've ever read about getting started in computer-based recording. Thank you -- each and every one of you -- for taking the time to cover even the most basic steps with such clarity and precision. Your responses moved me further ahead in this one thread than everything else I've read in the last six months combined.

Now I need to do some serious thinking about application, because there are implications to each choice of hardware and software that I wasn't understanding at all.

Although I need to do further reading (and ask more questions), I may learn faster if I split my path in two.

The first would be to set up a basic, bare-bones system on my existing desktop, so that I can have some fun and learn from using software-based sound editing tools. Since this is our all-purpose home computer, I know to expect some conflicts. But it still would give me a platform for learning, and perhaps it would let me edit my existing cassette and minidisc recordings for practice.

Then, after gaining some experience -- and if computer-based recording and editing really fit my needs -- I could look at putting together a more serious set-up. From what you've written, I think this two-pronged approach would actually save me money and grief in the long run.

Again, my sincere and heartfelt thanks to each of you. If you think of anything else I need to know (or links to references that wouldn't be over my head), please post them below. Otherwise, I feel much better able to make sense of existing threads and postings.

With appreciation,

Mark H.
 
It´s not complicated,...it all depends on what you wanna do...if you already have a p.c. running properly,all you need is the soundboard and the software that comes with it...the rest is learned like anything else...HERE!....
XXEERRRS!!
 
Ive just read your last post,again,give us a clue on what you want to do,...
Record(what?...)?save old tape recordings into a cd?,aplly strange efx to a single sound,...be more practical please..
 
"I didn't know a damn thing about computers and when I bought Pro Tools LE, I was rolling in a hour or so... very simple... "

After numerous computer conversations with Vox I can attest for his computer illiteracy... ;) Sorry Joeyboy...couldn't resist. :D

Just keep all levels below digital 0!! There is no such thing as "hard drive saturation". Well - I guess there is - it's called clipping - and it sounds nasty.

zip >>
 
Mark,
Like you, I like to think of myself as computer savvy and somewhat intelligent also. I've been at digital recording for over 5 years and felt extremely frustrated and stupid many times. I've learned a few things and I have a few suggestions for you. These are not the only ideas/products/setups that work, but I KNOW they work for me. So If I had to start over, I'd do the following...

1. I would get software that there are forums for so that you could discuss your needs/setups/problems. This website is fantastic and a lot of talented people frequent the n-track, Cubase and Cakewalk forums to name a few.
Reason: You need to know what works well and what will or won't present problems in the future.
2. DO NOT depend on the employees at the music superstores. If you read this thread, you already know more than the stiffs at my local Guitar Center.
3. Do your homework on spec'ing out motherboards and hard drives. Avoid motherboards with onboard audio. Try to make your PC a music workstation and little or nothing else.
4. Find someone who has a setup that's working that you want to emulate and match as much as possible. For me, it was the PC used by the Cakewalk people to demo Sonar. I have very few problems.

My setup:
I put this system together about a year ago for about $1000, not including software/os/soundcard.

-Abit BE6II motherboard (I'd get an Asus if I had to do it over)with an Intel 440bx chipset.
-Intel 1Ghz PIII
-2 7200rpm IDE 40 GB HD (one dedicated to audio data)
-Windows 2000 with service pack 2 loaded.
-256 MB ram
-Cakewalk Sonar software
-M-Audio Delta 1010 sound card
-SoundBlaster Live sound card

I'm doing a project right now with 20 tracks so far and at least as many plugin effects at 50% CPU usage and my HD at about 5%. So, 24-track recording should be a snap.

I realize that there are many options and I hope I didn't get too far off track, but when I started this five years ago, I was sort of forced into the Hard Disk recorder option. I bought one as it was the best thing at the time for me. I'm happy now that I made the move to PC recording as I feel they are now up to the task.
Stick with it and poke around this site some more. Ask questions and you'll find something that's right for you.
 
I've been doing midi and digital audio for over 10 years and and I cant really say the art of making things easy has improved at all in that time.

The setup is 75% of the work and it is a crap shoot. Sometimes it all works right off the bat and other times it takes 3 months just to get your comp to recognize your sound card.

If you have more money than time and experience with DAW's I would recomend getting somebody to build you a turnkey system and give you a guarantee. Most local computer/music stores will probably offer the service.

No matter how much I think I know there is always some little glitch that will come along and kick my ass for awhile until I get it sorted out.
 
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