why is computer recording so popular?

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Ed:

At this point, I won't be trying to record a band -- just myself, my guitar, and possibly another vocalist or guitarist here and there.

When you say that there is an issue of "latency" on the computer, what exactly do you mean?

I have never heard of combining a stand alone (such as the MR8) with Power Tracks or other computer software. When you do that, are you always recording on the MR8 and dumping it into the computer, or do you have a sound card and record directly to the computer?

Thanks for your thoughts.
Laura C
 
This summer I decided to make the jump into amatuer home recording. I decided to invest in "computer recording" gear because it's less intimidating to me (during the day I'm a software developer). I also believe it less costly to get started.

That being said, it's possible that I've been mislead by those whose opinions I solicited. I purchased a Digi001 and a PodXT...I'm a guitar player recording my own songs. I'm beginning to use Pro Tools and I find it easy to learn the basics. The modeling and effects on the Podxt work great with he Digi001. I get some wonderful sounds....now if I can only learnt how to make them sound like a song.

Sometime in the future I hope to get brave enough to post some of my recordings and solicit the opinions of the obviously more experienced folks here at the homerecording.com bbs.

Bottom line, "computer recording" is easy to get started but, from my newbie perspective, just as difficult to get good at as any other approach (analog or digital).

That's my opinion....
Jay
 
Laura C said:
Ed:

At this point, I won't be trying to record a band -- just myself, my guitar, and possibly another vocalist or guitarist here and there.

When you say that there is an issue of "latency" on the computer, what exactly do you mean?

I have never heard of combining a stand alone (such as the MR8) with Power Tracks or other computer software. When you do that, are you always recording on the MR8 and dumping it into the computer, or do you have a sound card and record directly to the computer?

Thanks for your thoughts.
Laura C

PC systems usually have a lag from the time you hit a string until the data makes it into the PC. When trying to do multiple tracks, this becomes a problem. Standalone units do not have this problem as they are hardware based from the start.

I always record on the MR8 and always mix on the PC. That way I get zero latency, and up to 48 tracks. Works really well. Initial cost for my system was $300 for MR8 and $30 for PC PowerTracks.

Ed
 
<<I always record on the MR8 and always mix on the PC. That way I get zero latency, and up to 48 tracks. Works really well. Initial cost for my system was $300 for MR8 and $30 for PC PowerTracks.

Someone posted a concern earlier about the issue of compression with budget units. Have you run into any problems with the MR8 in that regard?
 
Laura C said:
<<I always record on the MR8 and always mix on the PC. That way I get zero latency, and up to 48 tracks. Works really well. Initial cost for my system was $300 for MR8 and $30 for PC PowerTracks.

Someone posted a concern earlier about the issue of compression with budget units. Have you run into any problems with the MR8 in that regard?

No. The MR8 records at 44KHz 16-Bit and does not compress the result. When you transfer the result to the PC it's a raw recorded WAV file.

A typical 3 minute mono track will be about 15 MB in size. 8 tracks is about 120 MB, which is where the 3 min limit comes from when using a 128MB CompactFlash card in the unit.

Ed
 
so you can only have a 3 minute long song?!! i would call that a limitation...
 
foreverain4 said:
so you can only have a 3 minute long song?!! i would call that a limitation...
Yes, but that's a limitation of this particular unit......not stand-alones as a class..........
 
On the MR8, a larger CF memory card will give you longer runtime.

A 16-bit/44.1kHz WAV file is considered "uncompressed" data, by definition, being the CD-standard.;)
 
foreverain4 said:
so you can only have a 3 minute long song?!! i would call that a limitation...

The limit is related to the size of CompactFlash card you use, not the unit it self. The unit comes with an 128 MB card which will hold 24 minues of recorded wav files. For an 8 track recording, that is 3 minutes.

However one can purchase larger CF cards to use. The MR8 can handle up to a 2 GB card.

I have had few problems working with the existing 128 card for what I do, but have also purchased a 512 card.

Ed
 
<<A 16-bit/44.1kHz WAV file is considered "uncompressed" data, by definition, being the CD-standard.>>

Good to know. Thanks for the info -- I really do need things spelled out!


<<The limit is related to the size of CompactFlash card you use, not the unit it self. The unit comes with an 128 MB card which will hold 24 minues of recorded wav files. For an 8 track recording, that is 3 minutes.

However one can purchase larger CF cards to use. The MR8 can handle up to a 2 GB card.

I have had few problems working with the existing 128 card for what I do, but have also purchased a 512 card.>>


Alright, I'm going to ask the completely obvious stupid question:
If I only recorded on 4 tracks, would the card hold 6 minutes of wav files?

Wow - a 2GB card for the MR8. How much would that set one back, and where could I find it?

Ed, You said you had few problems working with the existing 128 MB card for what you do -- Could you give specific examples of what you're doing, and how you've gotten around any memory limitations?
 
Q: If I only recorded on 4 tracks, would the card hold 6 minutes of wav files?

A: Yes

Q: How much would a 2G CF card cost?
A: Est., $150.
 
Re: Q: If I only recorded on 4 tracks, would the card hold 6 minutes of wav files?

A Reel Person said:
A: Yes

Q: How much would a 2G CF card cost?
A: Est., $150.

Thanks for the response.
I want to continue asking questions but am going to start a new thread b/c I think I'm getting away from the original intent of this one.
 
Okey-dokey, arti-chokey!

&, what was the original intent of this thread? Oh yeah:

Q: Why do you think 'puter recording is so popular?
A: Because most people don't know any better.

/DA
 
Laura C said:
<<A 16-bit/44.1kHz WAV file is considered "uncompressed" data, by definition, being the CD-standard.>>

Good to know. Thanks for the info -- I really do need things spelled out!


<<The limit is related to the size of CompactFlash card you use, not the unit it self. The unit comes with an 128 MB card which will hold 24 minues of recorded wav files. For an 8 track recording, that is 3 minutes.

However one can purchase larger CF cards to use. The MR8 can handle up to a 2 GB card.

I have had few problems working with the existing 128 card for what I do, but have also purchased a 512 card.>>


Alright, I'm going to ask the completely obvious stupid question:
If I only recorded on 4 tracks, would the card hold 6 minutes of wav files?

Wow - a 2GB card for the MR8. How much would that set one back, and where could I find it?

Ed, You said you had few problems working with the existing 128 MB card for what you do -- Could you give specific examples of what you're doing, and how you've gotten around any memory limitations?

Correct, you've got 24 min of WAV memory to use accross the various tracks. Using 4 would be about 6 min each.

2GB CF cards are very expensive today. A 512 card costs about $110. Larger cards scale up in price, with 2 GB cards starting at over $500.

I really have not had any problems working with the MR8. I record only 1 or 2 tracks at a time. I then transfer to PC, mix down, back to MR8 and then record more. That way you can easily record 16+ digital tracks with great results.

I bought the 512 card for increased flexibility in takes. I can record 4 or 5 takes on one thing, and then only keep the one I like for mixdown.

Ed
 
Ed Dixon said:
Correct, you've got 24 min of WAV memory to use accross the various tracks. Using 4 would be about 6 min each.

2GB CF cards are very expensive today. A 512 card costs about $110. Larger cards scale up in price, with 2 GB cards starting at over $500.

I really have not had any problems working with the MR8. I record only 1 or 2 tracks at a time. I then transfer to PC, mix down, back to MR8 and then record more. That way you can easily record 16+ digital tracks with great results.

I bought the 512 card for increased flexibility in takes. I can record 4 or 5 takes on one thing, and then only keep the one I like for mixdown.

Ed

Though the MR8 has the capacity to mix the tracks, you choose to export yours and mix them on your computer using Power Tracks, right? I am assuming that with Power Tracks you can balance and adjust as necessary and then finalize the tracks into an ultimate mix. Where do effects such as reverb get added -- on the MR8 or on the computer?

Did you find Power Tracks difficult to learn and navigate?

Thanks.
 
Yeah, so that bumped the price of your ultra-cheap $299/MR8...

about $110, to about $409, for eight tracks, which is still not too shabby.

Another obvious limitation of these 'standalones', is the number of mic/line/aux inputs they give you, total. PLUS, the important factor of how many tracks can you record simultaneously on these boxes? Well, with the MR8, it's 2-tracks/max, as with many other similar [digi] units. The more expensive DAW-standalone workstations give you more generous inputs/mixer & track-simul-record capability,... as the relative dollar cost goes up.

Here's my reasoning, as it applies to some of the gear out there:

-If you 'need-in' to 8-tracks, really quickly, and for ultra-low dollar cost as possible on NEW GEAR, then the MR8's your baby. Make sure your puter is close at hand, for file transfer purposes.

-If you don't mind used gear on Ebay, in DIGITALs, the FOSTEX FD8 will surely blow the doors off of the MR8, and at the same dollar cost. F/I, I just got one [FD8] myself, $294/total/delivered, and it's in MINT condition. [FD8] contains a FULL 8x2 INPUT MIXER with 3-BAND EQ, it is also 16/44.1 format, it also records 2-simul-max, except with ADAT I/O on your [Fostex] mixer, it WILL RECORD 8-SIMUL-MAX. PLUS, [FD8] has an INTEGRATED HARD DISC, with 50 HOURS of track-record time. It functions completely separate from the computer, but outputs digital S/Pdif, ADAT-I/O and analog simultaneously for all digital mixdown if desired. All for $294, and I would not kid you about that.

-I'd venture to say, that in certain respects the ANALOG TASCAM 424mkIII blows away the FOSTEX MR8, especially regarding the nice 8x2 mixer and the 4-SIMUL-DIRECT recording capability of the 424mkIII CASSETTE 4-TRACK. 4-tracks can be a fun & practical format, especially if your arrangements are sparse, and/or you're working alone. Entry cost for a TASCAM 424mkIII, $329, which is higher than the MR8, and only 4-tracks, but in many other respects [re: 8x2 mixer, 4-simul-max, practical cassette medium], IMO, the 424mkIII gives you MORE than the likes of the FOSTEX MR8, and is WORTH the extra $30. You may still throw your all-analog 4-track compositions to 16/44.1 wav files on the 'puter, & down to CDs for your mixes, if you want. It's easy. Not only is it easy, but in many respects, the NEW TASCAM 424mkIII CASSETTE 4-TRACK PORTASTUDIO is the way to go, ESPECIALLY for NEWBIES who are basically IN THE DARK about RECORDING. You heard it here, first. The 424mkIII's still available as NEW gear in stores. Get one soon, while they last!

-IF, you're REALLY an audio enthusiast, AND your "vision" REQUIRES 8-tracks, AND you want a single-unit standalone of HIGH ENGINEERING QUALITY, then IMO it's the TASCAM 388, definitely, no questions asked. The 388 includes an 8x8x2 mixer w/3-band sweepable EQ, I/O up the yin-yang, all running to 8-track format on 1/4" REEL TAPE. IT WILL MAKE SMITHEREENS OF THE MR8, ANY WAY YOU CAN SLICE IT. Of course, the 388 is a large and heavy, self-contained mixer/reel recorder Portastudio-style unit, and is only found as used on Ebay. I hate to make y'all weep on this one, but the FULLY LOADED TASCAM 388 may ALSO be found at ULTRA-LOW PRICES, w/dollar cost comparable to the $299/MR8. Oh yes, it's true, get your crying towel ready,... I've scored the Tascam 388 on Ebay for as low as $305! Honest to god. Same price as the MR8, and yet SO MUCH MORE! However bids range on the 388 from [avg] $350-$600, depending on the day.

-Likewise, IF you're really into what's otherwise known as "production value", IMO, you're then looking at 1/2" ANALOG 8-TRACK, f/i, the TASCAM 38, mixer & NR sold separately. The Tascam 38, sound-wise and feature-wise, will ASS-KICK the MR8 INTO THE NEXT SOLAR SYSTEM. The 38's another vintage, heavy unit, and is also found only as used on Ebay. Dollar cost: Tascam 38: $299-$450, and some come bundled with accessories, [reads: expensive accessories].

-If your vision is gradiose, then maybe the 1" TASCAM MS-16 is for you. Dollar cost, ~$1200-$1600, often plus accessories!

-If your grandiose vision also requires an economic budget, then maybe the 1/2" TASCAM MSR-16 is for you. An MSR-16 is reasonably ~$800-$1000, often with accessories!.

-MY GRANDIOSITY goes WAY beyond that! I have the 1" TASCAM MSR-24! Still, for 24 analog tracks, 1" is more economical. MY buy-in cost to that was $2750, but it's somewhat lower these days, & is still comparable with the likes of the NEW ROLAND VS2400CD, unit, and yet the MSR-24 is so much more! [... originally over $10,000!]

-DON'T ASK about that 2" STUDER MKIII R/R I saw yesterday! MINT, ULTRA-LOW USE, BIG AS YOUR HOUSE, at a reasonable $8Klams! The next 8K I find, I'm GETTIN' IT! [Original cost on that Studer MKIII/TOP-OF-THE-LINE was $35K-$40K,... if it was a dime!]

-AND, digressing, if you're really into the DIGITAL SCENE, then currently the NEW YAMAHA AWG-16 seems like the 16-track ticket to digi-vana! [... for around $1100!]

-PLEASE, LET's NOT FORGET the NEW Tascam 788, 8-track/hard disc recorder. An actual "Portastudio", it is, and it records up to 6-SIMUL-INPUTS, and has a fairly nice digital mixer, FWIW, now found new for ~$599. In my never-to-be humble opinion, the TASCAM 788 WILL BLOW THE FOSTEX MR8 AWAY, handily! The 788 is still the unit to get, in 8-track digital standalone workstations, IMO.

-Okay, last but not least, given everything I've said above, for the price, and considering what you get onboard, the MR8 is STILL the PERFECT recorder for SOME people. [YMMV]

-There's a BOSS BR-648, records to those flash-memory cards, etc, and is very similar to the Fostex MR8, in almost every way. 2-inputs and 2-simul-max.

Me, I'm spoiled. I'm an old analog guy who's used to massive mixer matrices, and large track-simul capability. Some of the 2-simul max recorders seem limiting, sometimes, but are okay if you're basically working alone. I think what bugs me more about the newest units, like the BR-648 and the FOSTEX MR8, is the LACK OF MIXER INPUTS, but that's not to say that the clever MR8/BR-648 user might not use a better OUTBOARD MIXER, once in a while. In fact, the 2-input-only units would IMO beg the issue of having an external complex mixer! Anyway, that's my opinion, several of them, and YMMV.

What was the topic? Ha, you can have your thread back!
 
Last edited:
Agree.

It boils down to what you want to do and what you want to spend. For me. the MR8 solution fit well. For others, it might not.

Since many want some degree of portability, pure PC based recording is out, unless you have a laptop you can carry around.

I only need to record one source at a time, so the need for a multiple input unit did not exist. Many today fall into this category. However it you want to record a band or something similar, you need something else.

I am a PC based person, so using the PC as part of the solution was a given for me. Some of the music parts I build on the PC using other software, and then move to the recorder.

I too looked around EBay, but found nothing in the sub-$500 range that looked like a real option. I really considered the Foxtex VF80, which is hard disk based, but decided against it as the process of moving tracks to/from the PC was poor. The same was generally true for other similar gear. I looked at a range of gear from Tascam, Fostex, Roland, and many others. I liked the overall feel and features of a 16-Track Roland units, but cost was 1K to 2K.

I already had two older Tascam 4-track analog recorders. Had used them for years building instumental albulms. That experience proved to me the need to go beyond 8 tracks for some song selections.

However the cost of 16 track standaone machines was generally higher than I wanted to go. So the solution of an MR8 for $299, PowerTracks software for $27, and a 512 MB CF card for $110 was an excellent fit.

Since I buy and sell a lot of gear on EBay, my thinking was that it this combo did not work out, I could easily sell it there and buy something else. I have done that a lot with guitar gear that looked good, but did not fit what I need. Based on my results to date, I don' expect to have to sell the MR8 gear on EBay.

Ed
 
Right, whatever floats your boat,... and I'm glad it works well for your needs.

Despite everything above, I've even considered getting the MR8, at times. It has certain interesting features.

Notice, above, that pure-Puter recording was NOT mentioned as one of the solutions? Just MHO, but YMMV. AAMOF, some people SWEAR BY 'puter recording as the way to go, but it's not for me, at this point anyway. Pls refer to my previous post.;)
 
i think there is also the thing that a lot of people use the computer as a creative tool. specifically with softsynths like reason or programs like ableton live.

as far as the actual recording i dont think it makes too much difference, although old school tape is still the best ultimately

of course anything on a computer should be done on a mac if you dont want to lost your mind!



47ronin
 
The issues for some with pure PC recording are:

1. Portability
2. Noise
3. Interface
4. Latency

My guitar/synth gear is in the garage (20 space rack + cabs). Moving that is not easy.

My PC setup has 5 PCs and 4 monitors. Noise there is a little high for vocals.

Using a sound card for PC input is not always the best. Even a simple interface starts at about $100. Good ones with 2+ inputs can run $200-$500.

Latency for sound on sound recording in PCs can be an issue. Search any PC interface sound forum and you'll find many messages dealing with the issue of trying to solve latency.

These issues, and more, affect people differently based on what they want/need to do and what physical limitations they may have in their space and instrument locations.

Ed
 
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