Why get Pro Tools when you can get use something like REAPER?

[Agent47]

Oh no, I've been using the wrong systems all along! I've been engineering in London studios for the last 9 years as staff and as a freelancer, and I've been using DAR Sound Station, Fostex Foundation, Akai DL1500 and Sadie, and I've done pretty ok without the 'industry standard'...

Oh, and at home for my freelance music work on the side, I use Cubase SX3.

 

[Steve Henningsgard]

Uh oh, I better warn all the professional engineers that still use tape and/or radar that they better learn protools so they can be more like the kids with the home studios

Gah dammit, I knew I should have worded that differently! I didn't mean to suggest professionals should all switch to Pro-Tools!! I meant if you're just getting into recording, or are looking to upgrade your rig, and you want to be a marketable/versatile engineer, able to work at almost any studio in the world, you must learn, know, and love pro tools. That's all I was getting at.

If you think the majority of professional studios don't use Pro Tools, then you haven't been in many professional studios. I know there are many studios who still track to tape, there are several that use other DAWS, etc., but I'm talking about the majority of studios. Personally, I like Sonar quite a bit better than Pro Tools, but looking around at all of the studios I'd like to record bands at, I'm not about to try to convince them that they should switch to PC's running Sonar or Reaper.

 

[pipelineaudio]

The guys I look up to mostly don't like computers in general. Some run PT, some run logic, none of them will be marketed at though. Im trying to help make an app that theyll actually like, but none of us are all that concerned with what the kids from the conservatory are running.

I think it IS good advice, to know PT, and have AT LEAST an MBox or something that will open the sessions, but the appeal to popularity is a horrible thing IMHO

Brittney Spears sold more records in a week than black sabbath ever did in their career

Does that mean Brittney Spears is *better* or that is the type of music everyone should make?

The same arguments were being made for ADAT back in the day, before PT replaced it. Everywhere I went the things started popping up. I would ask "you dont actually use that POS do you?" And always "hell no, but the damn kids have these things in their bedrooms, and we can get a bit of their work if we can open their projects". PT was no different, no matter how they try to spin it as a top down phenomenon.

People should do whats "GOOD"

Like tune their instruments, stop squashing the hell out of albums, and stop worrying about using some effect because " mr hit of the week is using it, so I better "

Conformity never brought anything good to the music table

 

[Steve Henningsgard]

I agree completely, with added note that just because millions of people have abused the 'power' that Pro Tools and it's ilk have given the general populous, doesn't necessarily mean it's 'bad' per-se. I know you weren't explicitly suggesting such, but suggesting that one shouldn't use Pro Tools based on the fact that kids from "the conservatory" are all using it (being an ignorant American, I assume that's either a specific music school, or just a word for college in general?) is just stupid.

Some of the most amazing music of our time is being created in bedrooms, home-studios, and Pro Tools-based full studios. Some of the worst as well. Oh god most of it's bad. Most of the bands I've recorded fall squarely into the "please tune your guitars/learn your instruments/don't make me squash the hell out of your already abysmal recording" category. On the flip-side, were most of your favorite old-school engineers to display the same fervor in learning Pro Tools and associated plug-ins as they did when learning tape, things might be very different indeed. But nobody likes learning a new medium when the one they're using has worked well for them for years, or indeed dozens of years, and nobody can blame them!

What medium you use to create your art should not be what defines the quality of the art itself.


*edit: I forgot to mention that I've used Reaper on a couple of on-site locations, and it worked flawlessly! I can't say that I find the interface very intuitive for mixing, but for simply tracking it's wonderful

 

[charger]

Something that gets lost here is that bad albums, overcompressed, squashed, talentless, and with poorly written songs, are made just as often through Neumanns and Neves to analog tape as they are through SM57s through Behringer pres to Pro Tools or Cubase or whatever.

Having a new tool, an old tool, or a "cool" tool, doesn't make a bit of difference if the tools in your head aren't straight. And if the tools in your head ARE straight, the tools you use to record and mix probably matter a lot less.

I advocate Pro Tools, not because it's the "industry standard," but because I like the way it works, and the way I work with it. If I found something I liked better, I'd probably advocate that instead. And if push came to shove, I could get by with my dusty Tascam 424, some high bias tapes, and $150 worth of mics, cables, and external processing.

 

[pipelineaudio]

My beef is that the tools are sold to say, explicitly, that you DONT need any skill, that holding a receipt automatically and instantly makes YOU better than someone who knows what they are doing

Thats why stuff gets smashed, thats why DAW's have gotten a bad name

It is almost always packaged as argumentum ad popularum, before anything about what could make it good, its backward, insane thinking right from the start, and we have to pick up the fallout

 

[Steve Henningsgard]

My beef is that the tools are sold to say, explicitly, that you DONT need any skill, that holding a receipt automatically and instantly makes YOU better than someone who knows what they are doing

Thats why stuff gets smashed, thats why DAW's have gotten a bad name

It is almost always packaged as argumentum ad popularum, before anything about what could make it good, its backward, insane thinking right from the start, and we have to pick up the fallout

See, that's a fair argument. I can only imagine the reasoning behind this attitude at Digi would be because, as everyone here knows, there are very few new large studios being built these days (in fact, many are closing), and more and more people are learning they can do some simple recording from their homes. While I'm sure everybody at Digidesign wishes they sold 100 HD|3 / ICON units per day, the fact is they make several times more on their consumer and prosumer-level equipment, than they ever would on their pro gear. Thus, being a company trying to make a buck, they do their best to market to whoever will make them the most money!

 

[dogwreck]

Can I use my Mbox 2 interface with reaper or do I have to get another interface?

 

[illsoulprod]

I Love these discussions...

Ima wave my Pro Tools LE flag proudly
Why?
Because It works for me and reaper works for you and cubase works for you and adobe audition works for you and audacity works for you and thats cool with me. I think to be honest with you that the marketing of these programs are done beautifully (some better than others). Pro Tools is an engineers toy like Sonar is made for production period. And yes the arguement "they can all be used for what ever" is valid but so is getting hit by a car standing anywhere. Pro Tools and all these softwares were made with a specific type of musician in mind and unfortunately we all fit the mold of one of them.

I do business and marketing and this whole discussion is a marketing departments dream, why? because its a pointless arguement about products that overlap into another products niche's and ya'll dont see that. But your musicians not business majors so is reaper better than Pro Tools... No... But reaper wasnt made to satisfy the same people pro Tools was made for. Musicians come in all shapes and sizes and like all kinds of wierd and out there things but lets be clear on 1 thing engineers are a whole other beast.

You like recording on reaper then i hope you can push that bad boy to the limit like i can do on my pro tools setup. Are the windows docable, can i resize them if i need to, can my VST's and VSTi's all work seemlessly, are there updates and a large community of users in case tech support cant help me in a speedy and timely manner, can i export files individually and to different formats flawlessly if i so choose so, is the rewire client stable enough for me and my bountiful array of reason 4 refills and modules...

If so then damnit i need to see this bad muthaluva in action for real. But if not...

Thats cool to becaus in the end as long as you can make a great recording and your producer can make a great arrangement and i can edit and make a great mix out of it and the mastering engineer (who laughs at all of this) can make a great master...Gentlemen we will have a hit who knew

 

[iownrocknroll]

There are two reasons why I use pro tools

SIMPLE Compatibility with Pro Tools HD
SIMPLE Compatibility with AVID system

though I will admit the 003 rack is decent all around.

convertors are clean and flat, clock is decent, pre's are clean and hi gan. hpf is clean.

simple support for multiple sets of monitors

 

[altitude909]

Thanks for adding the 1 post a year to this thread.. chk the dates

 

[illsoulprod]

well...

some things are just worth keeping alive. this is an arguement that still pursists

 

[Trumpspade]

I switched to pro tools by accident. I was looking for a midi interface and I didn't really read into what the Mbox was.........So after I purchased the Mbox 2, 'cause I wanted midi and more than 1 i/o, I realized that it came with pro tools. I was already happy with my Sonar 7PE, but since PT 8 came with the Mbox I figured, why not!!!!!

I have not turned back! Aside from it being industry standard, I found it a bit more appealing and easier to deal with. I still use Sonar because I had invested alot of time learning it, but Pro tools made me go out and grab a new IMAC, new monitors, I invested in a Motif for my Son and use it with my MPC 2500, and I bought gigs of more reason refills. It kind of rejuvinated my passion for making music again! Thanks Pro tools!!!!

Nah, but the bottom line is "to each their own"....... If it ain't broke, why try to fix it! If your stuff sounded like crap with reaper or any other program, it will sound like crap with pro tools as well..........

 

[chrisharris]

An oldie but a goodie!!

I use Reaper because all the cool kids use it. I don't use PT because everybody who uses it is a huge douche.

I'm a marketer's DREAM!!!