Why do you record in analogue?

  • Thread starter Thread starter James K
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I wouldn't trust music only to tape for 40 years (unless you have good tape to start and you really take care of it)...but I certainly would and do now have 3-4 different formats *and the playback devices for each*.

That said...it's really not much of an issue.
Rarely does technology just go bad or disappear overnight. So if you do have a R2R deck and some tape...just check it every so often (don't wait 40 years before the next play :D), and if it starts going bad on you, dump all the music to whatever is the most current format(s).

Actually...I would say vinyl might outlast the tape and the digital formats over time...but it too must be well cared for and protected just like anything. Not sure how something like a high-end digital format would stack against vinyl (for pure longevity and archive purposes.)
Right now my final audio masters get archived to DVD, but I also have the digital files on CD/DVD and of course all the original tracking tapes.
 
Well, the thread topic has kind of evolved here...

Digital tools have planned obsolescence all over. I don't know how many times I've tried to open a two year old project in a newer version of software only to have it fail on open without upgrading this or that. It's a genuine nightmare of a medium that is constantly changing, sometimes for the better, many times for the worse (pocketbook being one thing). You either have to upcovert all files everytime you upgrade something, or you have to backup each version of software, its operating system, etc.

This is one reason I went back to doing part of my recordings in analog.

Even digital video is rapidly changing. When I started converting home videos, I started cutting 4GB DVDs, then dual-sided, and because storage is able to handle it now, I just create high quality H264 encodes and store them on disk. Next up, HD. Then who knows..well, its never ending.
 
fstrat76 said:
Well, the thread topic has kind of evolved here...

Digital tools have planned obsolescence all over. I don't know how many times I've tried to open a two year old project in a newer version of software only to have it fail on open without upgrading this or that. It's a genuine nightmare of a medium that is constantly changing, sometimes for the better, many times for the worse (pocketbook being one thing). You either have to upcovert all files everytime you upgrade something, or you have to backup each version of software, its operating system, etc.

This is one reason I went back to doing part of my recordings in analog.
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Your talking about application-specific stuff, which is a way that developers make you buy new software...which is not the same as the underlying media formats.

I'm not saying a format might not one day dissappear...but with most apps, as they have evolved, the list of media formats they support has actually gotten larger over the years, to almost always include the older formats along with any new formats.
So like was already stated...I too don't expect that something like the WAV format will disappear any time soon...or MOV or MP3..etc.
 
I agree to some extent that .wav isn't going anywhere. However, it is the medium that it is stored on that I worry about. Face it, hard drives have failed while sitting on a shelf, CDs/DVDs have an unknown shelf life, and flash media (USB drives, SSD, etc.) are a big unknown as well.

Either way, you have to either keep up with the machine (analog) or the media (digital). Personally, I think my chances are better of finding someone else with a tape deck than I am a person who can do 100% data recovery on a drive. I guess that's why I prefer outboard gear to plug-ins. If I use a plug-in on a track, then a few years later decide to remix/master it, will I be able to utilize the same plug-in or be able to find something that is as close sounding as the original?

I suppose it's the plethora of unknowns that make digital recording an intimidating pillar to ponder upon
 
Well...CDs have been around for like...30 years or so...?
I've not heard of many disintegrating on their own yet.

The key is to save to multiple formats. You'll win the lottery before they all fail, simultaneously.
Now...you really think your chances of finding R2R tape decks will be easier than a digital playback system in about 20-30 years? ;)

Oh...and how many people REALLY remix stuff they did...again in 20-30 years?
Maybe if you're a big-name artists and they want to release a greatest hits remix. :D

Oh..I use mostly outbard...but not because I'm worried about plug-ins not working...I just like my outboard, though even a piece of outboard gear can crap out beyond repair at some point ....
 
miroslav said:
Well...CDs have been around for like...30 years or so...?
I've not heard of many disintegrating on their own yet.
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Well not physically no... but about 90% of my CD's that I burned more than 5 years ago just won't read anymore.

Even the ones that have just sat in their case on my shelf for a decade, I can't copy and paste half the data onto my hard drive anymore.
 
I've not had that problem.
Depends on the CDR brand/quality and the burner.
(I hope you are not talking about CDR-W discs)

As a matter of fact, I spent about an hour earlier today looking for some files on various CDs that I burned back in 1999-2003.
Did not have any errors on a single one...and I was using a CD reader that is fairly current and not the one I used to burn them.
 
I was taught that it's important for a would-be engineer to either own or have access to a decent hi-fi reference system and spend time listening to recordings critically for the purposes of ear training and learning how other recordings were done. I think this was good advice and I know my recordings benefited very much from my taking the time to listen critically on a system with the resolving power to reveal other recording's inner secrets.
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This is absolute truth, and should be a big concern for future engineers. I don't think this is happening much. I know a lot of younger musicians listen to older recordings but I don't know many who listen to them PROPERLY. They are growing up on ipods and mixing so that recordings will sound good on them. This is really tragic in my opinion. The move away from high fidelity to convenience is really pathetic.

Classical music will never be captured correctly. You just can't replicate the sound of 60 strings coming through a set of speakers. Jazz you can get closer, and I think the best recordings from a purists standpoint are found on certain older analog jazz records. I mean they are not trying to find new sounds, just capture what is in the air.. so this is really where one should start if they want to learn to record music properly.

The rock revolution I suppose since The Beatles and Brian Wilson have been exploring what the studio can add to the artistry of the music.. but this isn't really about capturing a recording.

Personally I don't like quantitizing anything, or even click tracks on a good drummer. A good drummer needs a bit of room to breath. It's a fine line between feeling a flow of music and playing out of time. But this whole homogenizing of music, lining up all the hits on a computer screen is absolutely killing music. We are humans and this is art. Some personal expression should be encouraged not caged.

Way too much fixing stuff in post tracking. People would be better to learn to play their instruments and shoot for one to three takes. If you can't get it, come back tomorrow or next week.

I recently read that archiving is going to be best on vinyl at between 100 and 150 years. Cd is predicted to go 30 to 40 max. Hardrives about the same. Tape 30 to 50.

Makes you wonder what is going on at The Library of Congress
 
miroslav said:
Oh...and how many people REALLY remix stuff they did...again in 20-30 years?
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Well, its actually only been about 2 years since I started a song I never finished and files won't open, are moved, or some things just won't operate the same. It's the nature of the beast and I can accept it's limitation. But you are correct in saying that we need to save in multiple formats, but how many actually do?

Regarding wav not going away, I have to humbly disagree. Advances in storage mechanisms may go beyond digital and perhaps we may find another way to capture analog information, maybe in some form of bio storage or something like that. After all, at one time, converting analog to 0's and 1's wasn't even known. It's just that we are currently in the digital generation or revolution and that is what we are accustomed to. We will find a better way.
 
fstrat76 said:
Well, its actually only been about 2 years since I started a song I never finished and files won't open, are moved, or some things just won't operate the same. It's the nature of the beast and I can accept it's limitation. But you are correct in saying that we need to save in multiple formats, but how many actually do?
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I save in multiple formats, as my project evolves and gets toward the end...I may have as many as 5-6 safety copies.
Not sure why your having so much problem with files and CDs after only two years....??? Honestly, I have stuff in file form and CD/DVD form...and much of it has been "on a shelf" for quite a few years, and I have yet to run into file errors.

fstrat76 said:
Regarding wav not going away, I have to humbly disagree.
Click to expand...

Well...are we talking for all time into the future, or do you want to put a number on that? :)
I'm very sure that WAV and MP3 will be around for another 20-30 years, at least, because while technology has moved forward, and while there have been new improved digital audio formats...they just haven't drawn any serious interest form the buying public...so the technology is actually is being dumbed-down (or held at bay).
there may be some new formats down the road, but most of the old formats still exist once a new one kicks in.

Not really sure what there is to be so afraid of digital going bad or disappearing overnight. It's not going to happen that quickly/easily. You will have time to convert over to something new...or cling to the old stuff that is compatible with your file formats/playback systems...same as some of us still cling to tape. ;)
 
miroslav said:
Not sure why your having so much problem with files and CDs after only two years....???
Click to expand...

Someone else posted that, I'm not having problems with storage.

I think there was an thread about archiving sometime ago; the issue is the software, when upgraded to later version, sometimes will not open earlier files or fails to open because things are in different places, etc. Its the typical upgrade cycle and nothing new, just bad development and a pain to deal with in the digital world.

I don't know about your assumptions 20-30 years into the future, being in the tech business and seeing how fast things move in the development world, but even so, I don't think many of us like or even have the time to keep upgrading to "that something new". I'm already on iteration 2 of converting videos. It's very time consuming.

Clinging to the old stuff is what we do best here no? :)
 
Oh...the software upgrade cycle is another beast. If your files from an earlier version don't open correctly in the newer version...that's something to take up with the software developer, as it's really their poor implementation rather than files getting corrupt or obsolete as far as media *format* is concerned.

I don't know what will be in 20-30 years (and I probably won't care that far down the road)...but my main point is that the current crop of *staple* media formats that are prevalent in audio (and video) have been around for awhile, and since they are used by so many people in the biz...I don't really see some overnight disappearance of them and some new formats popping up and leaving everyone unexpectedly in the lurch.
There will always be conversion tools...and everyone has the ability to hold onto whatever playback devices are needed for their chosen format.
I just don't have any *fear* about files and playback devices of current staple media formats just going away without a long transition process.

Heck...change affects everything, not just the digital media files. When that R2R deck dies off, and there are no replacement parts available, and finding a new deck becomes more and more difficult (especially if people hoard their working decks instead of selling them on eBay)...what do you do with a library of recorded tapes?
You need a back-up plan for just about everything that needs to be archived.

While I do have tons of recorded reels and now files (more and more)...honestly...I don't worry about loosing that stuff all that much because I have backups, and the real old stuff is just there for nostalgia...'cuz like I said, I'm not going to be releasing a "greatest hits" album down the road any time soon. ;)
What I mean is...all the stuff I care about is covered...and it's all in my head if I have no other backup... :D ...I would just have to re-record it, but that wouldn't bother me if the music was worth re-recording.
 
Astralography said:
Makes you wonder what is going on at The Library of Congress
Click to expand...

If you really want to know, ask Howard Sanner, moderator of the AMPEX discussion list and long-time LOC employee in the recorded sound division. My recollection is that they have a lot of stuff on old non-back-coated tape, on purpose, because they can't afford to migrate two million recordings, so stuff has to last.

Cheers,

Otto
 
that's a good one! :)

thunderstation said:
after all the reasoning and thoughts...I guess that pretty much sums it up for me too..
Click to expand...

After all the reasoning and thoughts :) ... I would record analog due to inability to let go of the future , .... if I could play future worthy music, that is ;)
But since I can't, I record digitally a lot. And I record analog too , well, a lot too, but do it so for no justifiable reason.

Rock On!, guys :D :drunk: :D
 
Don't knock the non-backcoated tape. I came across some audio letters from the late 50s that were playing fine. I just don't have a machine anymore that will play that slow.
 
What was the question?

(just spent 2 hours in the "Looking for Pot" thread, and... ) :confused:
 
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