Why DO the vocals sound so cold/dead??

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Ethan94

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Ok, Im own a studio where i record my hardcore punk/thrash band and mix music for other bands all over the country, and I sing for my band, and lately, te vocals have been sooooo dry and dead. I have a small closet as a vocal booth, the walls are covered with egg crate mattress padding, and the vocal mic im using is an SM58, running into a mackie 1402 VLZ 3 Pro mixer, which is runing into a macbook pro running garageband. I have one FX outobrad unit in a rack, its a digitech DSP 256, ive used stuff like vocal reverbs and choruses, but it sounds so dry and dead and cold. Any tips?????
 
If you post an example I'm sure there are some people on this board who would be willing to help you sort through your problem. I own a SM58 and it really isn't my go-to mic for recording vocals in the studio. If your room is well enough treated with egg cartons and mattresses you might be ready for a condenser microphone. ;)
 
Yeah im really hoping to get a Condenser for christmas, Im looking at the AKG perception 120, anyone have opinions on it?
However ive also heard that for hardcore punk, the screaming vocals are better suited with a dynamic mic, but i dont know, the 58 always sounds good live, but not in the studio.
 
Recording in a small closet is more than likely going to be detrimental, and the eggcrate foam is going to be doing nothing useful. There's where you need to start...
 
Yeah the vocals need to be dead, tats why they are being recorded in a closet with no reverberation, because from what ive experienced, vocals nee to be recorded in an acoiustically dead room.
What do you suggest, then?
 
But, you see, the closet won't be dead. Its a tiny space that would be really difficult to treat properly (by the time you'd put enough broadband absorption panels up, you woudn't have enough room it fit in)... the lightweight eggcrate foam is going to be doing nothing, apart from maybe dampening some v. high frequencies (which in turn just emphasises the problems with the low end, which will be there).

It may seem like the 'pro' thing to do, but the kind of vocal booths you find in pro studios are probably the size of the average home-studio live room - a lot bigger than you would think. They're well designed and treated, though not necessarially dead, and sound great. On the other hand, shutting yourself in a small closet is not doing you any favours!

If you're lucky enough to have a decent live room, use that. If you're like many of us in here and just operate out of a one-room studio, spend some money treating that and not only will it be a better place to track vocals in, you'll also benefit when it comes to your monitoring setup and mixing.
 
im operating with a small spare bedroom with wood floors as my control room/live room for some intruments, 2 closets with XLR wall panels mounted in the walls running to the control room for vocals and guitars(sounds good for guitars) and a large, reverby garage for drums/ other intruments that need natural room reverb. thats my studio space, its pretty humble setup, im hoping to get some more gear this christmas, i realy need a compressor, a set of drum mics, a lage diaphragm condenser mic, studio monitors, a snake, and some rack FX. right now the gear is pretty bare bones, but it suits the genre, im hoping for more gear so i can get bands of different genres in to record though.
 
Ethan94 said:
im operating with a small spare bedroom with wood floors as my control room/live room for some intruments, 2 closets with XLR wall panels mounted in the walls running to the control room for vocals and guitars(sounds good for guitars) and a large, reverby garage for drums/ other intruments that need natural room reverb. thats my studio space, its pretty humble setup, im hoping to get some more gear this christmas, i realy need a compressor, a set of drum mics, a lage diaphragm condenser mic, studio monitors, a snake, and some rack FX. right now the gear is pretty bare bones, but it suits the genre, im hoping for more gear so i can get bands of different genres in to record though.
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That's all fine, but....
Ethan94 said:
I have a small closet as a vocal booth, the walls are covered with egg crate
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That's the worst recording environment I can think of.

Before spending money on all that gear, learn about and doing something about the room. It's WAY more important than the gear.
 
Question for Mattr

If you're trying to keep noise out, is a closet a good idea?

I'm using a closet and am yielding better results than previously in the one-room-studio.
 
Ethan94 said:
Yeah the vocals need to be dead, tats why they are being recorded in a closet
Click to expand...

You just answered your threads question.


Try a different microphone, maybe that microphones character's not complimenting the singers voice. Maybe the mic placement isn't working with that singer. If the singer sounds "cold" (usually refers to a sound that lacks low end), try moving them closer for more proximity effect. Posting a sample of your problem may help us address your qualms. Sometimes a vocal needs a "cold" sound to compliment the mix. Good luck sir.:)
 
Clark Grizwald said:
If you're trying to keep noise out, is a closet a good idea?
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A closet that doesn't have noise happening in it will help remove you from the sound outside of the closet, of course. Mass (ie.walls) are what keeps sound from traveling. That said, moving into a closet might help remove outside noise from your signal and lower your noise floor but will likely degrade the sound of your source.

You might ask why people record in isolation booths or a very quiet vocal booth .. These have the same ideas you have except were designed to have audio happening in them. There is proper absorption and soundproofing so that less acoustic problems can occur. These are typically a little bigger than closets too..

Hope I'm helping out and not putting out any misinformation. Correct me if I am!

Good Luck, ERic
 
The suggestion for an LDC is a pretty good one...you might go with something better than the Perception...and buy something used designed for a pro studio.

You can treat that closet cheaply since it is so small...first Id reline the walls with fiberbrace from Home depot...and then using foam and diffusers on the walls...the corners should be treated with bass traps...and there are many designs online.
 
Ethan94 said:
Ok, Im own a studio where i record my hardcore punk/thrash band and mix music for other bands all over the country, and I sing for my band, and lately, te vocals have been sooooo dry and dead. I have a small closet as a vocal booth, the walls are covered with egg crate mattress padding, and the vocal mic im using is an SM58, running into a mackie 1402 VLZ 3 Pro mixer, which is runing into a macbook pro running garageband. I have one FX outobrad unit in a rack, its a digitech DSP 256, ive used stuff like vocal reverbs and choruses, but it sounds so dry and dead and cold. Any tips?????
Click to expand...
Irrigardless of what mic you use, your enviroment will have an impact on your sound
The old rule is if you record in a bathroom or a dead room thats excately what it sounds like you have recorded in.
Reverb & delay units will certainly help but not always the perfect answer.
Unfortunately we don`t always have the choice & luxury of where we can record.
How ever if you don`t need to record everything at once may-be use a larger room
still sound proofed. If room is still sounding dead just sparingly add two or three small reflective surfaces (plate Glass,Plastic a mirror ect (but don`t go over board) place at various angles nothing parraell or opposite each other.
Keep relections diffused you may need to experiment in postioning.
Good luck.
 
having recorded many a punk bad in my day i gotta ask a few things that were common shitty deals for me.

are you holding the mic? or is it in a stand with a wind baffle on it?

Stupid punk home recording common mistake #1 Holding and cupping the mic as you would on stage is gonna sound like shit recorded. I think the only person who that really worked for was John Brannon...

Your hatchery probably isn't doing you any favors...(loose the egg crates)
Also... its punk. its gotta be a gritty and a little dirty...

Just for the fuck of it throw another mic in the room somewhere mix that recorded track with a bit of stereo expansion, a bit of verb and brign it up till you yourself hear it ... then turn it back. Never know. Could be a quick fix.

Id also try another mic. Or get/rent a condenser mic in a room like that.

I never had luck at all with punk vocals in a small space.

post up some examples...
 
don't record vocals in a closet. get a long long mic cable (or connect 2 or 3 together) and put the vocalist in an entirely different room across the house. something with furniture and a carpet in it. if you can, hang thick blankets across the walls/windows but if that isn't an option then try to put something behind the singer around head height and hang something thick and soft down it, and do the same behind the mic. that will sound just great, no need for anything more. oh and aim the mic away from the loudest part where the band's sound can still be heard (doorway, wall, whatever). if it's a really directional mic it might pick up even less from the side than it does from behind, just experiment.

then you can use a 58 ok but could try to also put the vocal track through a compressor plugin when you're mixing after with just the right gentle touch of the settings to warm it up a bit, any style of singing can be improved by a great vocal sound.

cheers,
Don
 
Yo Ethan! You have gotten a lot of good advice here. This is my spin on it. Trying to make a room dead is what tradition says you do when your room sucks. Even if you succeed, the problem is-you then need a badass reverb/FX unit to put the room sound in that you didn't have in the first place. If you had enough money to buy that $4000-$5000 unit, you wouldn't be singing in a closet!

Good vocal recordings aren't made in dead rooms. They are made in good rooms. So where are the good rooms? All around you. If you want a *perfect room* go to a mastering house. It didn't come cheap. Whether you're gay or not, I don't care. Come out of the closet, dude, and consider a top of the line dynamic mic, such as Shure SM7b. If you want an entry level condenser, consider Marshall Electronics MXL V67g. Clap your hands in a quiet room and use your ears. The right place to get that vocal sound could be anywhere in the house. I would look for a hardwood floor with area rugs and soft curtains. You want a good recording room? Follow a cat. It'll find the soft stuff and the quiet. What do you want to hear when you clap your hands?- A soft decay and very little sharp echo. Good luck
 
How do you have an xlr panels in walls to connect between a "live room" and a "control room" but not have a condenser?
 
For the money , you will get a better dynamic mic than you can condensor. The china condensors a mostly shit , with very few exceptions . The best results I've ever had at home were with 57's and latley , a heil p40 ( a great mic , especially if your recording some baritones !...........there is very little proxiemity effect so you can crowd up on it )).

Another point ( and I realize some folks are going to say it's crazy , but I'm telling you what has worked for me !!!)................ Back off on the gain . Turn up the headphones . Use the hpf on the mic and don't stand 2 feet from it ; get closer .

get as much signal printed , not room ; If you have your preamp set in CIA, FBI spy across the street gain-mode then you will be stuck with lots of low level resonance and reverb from your less than perfect room ( usual home circumstances!) on the print , and , you will curse when you try to compress it .


try to use the biggest room in the house and put a few doors in a V configuration behind you w/ sleeping bags draped over them . A small closet is not a anechoic chamber!!! Stuff will bounce off those walls next to you , (unless you got the $$$$ treatments , not egg crates/containers!!)

Track in 24 bit ,leave lots of headroom so you don't have any worries about overloads!! don't sweat if you're not using all those precious, precious bits !!!. if your using decent converters , it will still have enough resolution at 24 bit!!!



If all else fails , bring out the secret weapon......................

moreheadergraytiff.gif

NOT!
 
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Also wanted to add; you mentioned chorus and reverb . Both can only be added in small amounts before they start to push the vocal unacceptibly out of the front of the mix. Try small delays and the hass effect instead .

This plugg combines delays with micro pitch changes ... use modestly it's a nice example of a widening treatment that still alows the track to stay up front .

Cheers.


http://www.stillwellaudio.com/?page_id=267
 
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