Why do drummers insist on making their drums sound dead as possible?

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colonelBraud

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Does anyone out there use nothing in their bassdrum and like the sound they are getting?
 
Yup. Jazz drummers typically play with a wide open bass drum. When you play rock the beats are generally too staccato to play with a real boomer.
 
I have nothing at all in my bass drum, but the batter head is a Remo Powerstroke III, which has some self-muffling. It makes it so it's not too dead but not too boomy to play rock. Resonant head is an ordinary Ambassador.
 
Hey Colonel.......

....I should have known I'd find you in the drum forum. ;)

You don't have anything in your kick drum right? And it's the best sounding bass drum I've ever heard so I'm thinking empty is the way to go.

Joke: What has three legs and an asshole?

































A drum stool! :D
 
I was gonna say my 1 legged drum tech when he's adjusting my bass drum... :)
 
I often wonder about the Tom sounds seemingly of days gone by as well...

I love that open tom (Coated head) sound heard on alot of Motown recordings and which is prevalent in the various jazz styles, but I just don't seem to hear it in todays music. What can this be attributed to?
Common shell sizes becoming deeper in toms?
Head material changes?
Recording technique?

Has good tuning form become unfashionable?


:)
 
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Yeah Billy......I don't hear a lot of kits that are tuned well today. So many drummers depend an the PA to make their drums sound good. As the guy who usually does sound for most of my bands....I can't tell you how often the first thing a drummer does is to come crank the bass all the way up to "give his kick some bottom end" :rolleyes: Man.....if it ain't there.....you can turn any knob you want and it's still not gonna be there.
The first drummer we had in the daughter band had his kick tuned like a boxy, midrangy piece of crap. Well naturally that's how it sounded out front too. But, of course, he attributed it to my inability to turn the bass up enough! What an idiot.
Also, most drummers seem to think that the PAs there specifically to make their drums louder.

Actually, colonelBruad has the best kick I've heard in many years. He uses a Yamaha 22" by 16" I think......and coated heads. Man.....it sounds great and in most rooms I've heard it in, it doesn't even need to be mic'd. I don't understand it actually 'cause he uses no damper or anything in the drum at all. I would expect it to ring and be boomy but nope......it sounds great.
 
Thanks for the reply Lt. Bob. :)

It such a shame to see (Hear) really nice kits played with near zero regard for tuning...( Ridiculously heavy crash cymbals make me cringe too! ) The first time I hit a really well tuned Sonor bass drum I was in love.. deep!

Maybe if I say "Please Please PLEASE", then Colonel Bruad will do a "Tuning 101" thread for all of us.

:)
 
Drums. Sometimes they drive me nuts (actually, drummers drive me nuts, not the drums). So many things that influence the sound you get back but the biggest single factor is the guy who beats on them. This comes back to not only the way he tunes the kit but the way he hits. I've had kits mic-ed up in the studio for a particular drummer that no matter what I did sounded whimpy only to have a friend come over, sit down at the same kit and play and it sounds COMPLETLY different. Also cymbals ment for live playing in the studio ALWAYS sound like ass.
 
Tuning 101?

I am by no means an expert on tuning drums but, lately I have been getting tons of feedback on the sound of my kit, especially my kick drum sound (thanks Lt. BOB). Anyway I have tried every brand of drumhead, every make and model...I even tried an old sheep skin head (I don't know what they were thinking there), but it finally dawned on me that the sound that I wanted was not acheived by muffling or the newest design of drumheads out there. To me, all the drummers that have influenced me are drummers that approach the drumset as a musical instrument. For me that means that my drums are equally a melodic instrument as well as a rhythmic one. So to prevent my drums from sounding like a dick flopping on a wet suitcase, I have chosen these heads for my drums: First off, the drums are Yamaha Maple Customs...22, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16 and a 14"x4" snare. The bass drum batter head is a Remo coated powerstroke3. I chose it because a drum that size tends to lose its "crack" or crispness, and with the coated head, the "crack" is acheived before I tune the drum. The resonant head is a Remo Renaissance powerstroke 3. It is the perfect compliment to the batter head and it looks cool as shit. No muffling, not even a piece of electrical tape...and tune the heads evenly, but so loose that the head is barely on there...and boys you will have a cannon that will scare even George Patton! On the rest of the drums, I use Remo Renaissance emperors batter heads. They are full of tone and they start singing as soon as you strap'em on! In closing: Drummers spend a little time tuning and a lot of time listening and you will find the sound you want.

Peace,
Colonel Braud
 
I agree Track Rat. There is a difference between playing the drums and beating the drums and that affects the sound of the drums as well, but try the heads that I mentioned in the earlier reply and it will open up your tonal pallet on the drums. I am not endorsing Remo, cause they have dropped the ball on some of their projects just like the other companies, but those heads will make even Tommy Lee sound good.
 
BillyFurnett said:
I often wonder about the Tom sounds seemingly of days gone by as well...

I love that open tom (Coated head) sound heard on alot of Motown recordings and which is prevalent in the various jazz styles, but I just don't seem to hear it in todays music. What can this be attributed to?
Common shell sizes becoming deeper in toms?
Head material changes?
Recording technique?

Has good tuning form become unfashionable?


:)
Click to expand...

One of the problems is the change in method of tuning.
I'm not a big fan of close mic'd drums. I like the sound of a drum that's tuned up in pitch, and mic'd from a few feet away. I'm sure soundmen hate me. I tune my kit the way I want, and whenever I've played out, they just have to deal with it. Yeah, I know-joe blow and all the other drummers tune their drums another way - I don't care.

Drummers used to tune the drums higher in pitch, these days they tune them as low as they will go.
I tune my drumkit so that it will "sing". It's bright and punchy and very sensitive, which allows for a great range of dynamics.
In the old days drummers tuned their resonant head higher in pitch, but these days the trend is to tune the resonant head lower for that "cardboard box" drumsound. (an example of this is the drumsound for the band "System of a down".

Drummers tend to record with smaller drums these days. Why? because a smaller drum close mic's better than a large drum.

I can verify this easily. My smallest drum, is as big as most floor toms these days, and my floor toms are the size of most kicks these days. They don't close mic well, but from 12" or so away, they will take your head off! They sound like a set of tymapni.

A friend's older brother came to see me play, and I was in an unmic'd situation-except for the kick and snare, nothing else was mic'ed.
He's a musician, and extremely picky, and he and I didn't get along for years-we had played in a band and he simply didn't like me.

a couple of weeks later people began calling me, wanting to know when I was going to play again because "Neal said you had the best damned drumsound he's ever heard." Here was a guy who hated me, but he was singing praises about my sound and playing to everyone he knew. His brother told me, it really bugged him-because as much as he had previously disliked me-he thought that I was a ripping drummer, and that my drumsound was incredible.

What I do is simple:

I use an Evans Torque key for rough adjustment.

I set it for 4, and I tune both the top and bottom heads.
(You may like this)
Then, I change the key to 8, and tune the resonant heads to that.

Now, on my kit there is normally very little fine tuning. The torque gives me almost perfect pitch, but that may not be true with your own kits, or kits in studios.


Tim
 
drum tuning

We have to remember that a drum set is a set of drums? when you tune one,, you chage the over tones of another. Even the cymbals pick-up the vibration when you stike a drum, try it some time it a tom and put you ear close to the cymbal and you will hear the brass ringing at a low cycle. So whwn you stike one drum they all vibrate and and through off a over tone. So you can't go off what one drum alone sounds like but the entire drum set.
 
To answer the original question,
It's not the drummers that want that dead sound as much as it is the sound and recording engineers. It's a style that has been imposed on us and we are living with it. That dull thud of the kick is so "ingrained" in our collective psyche that when it is any different, listeners and even other musicians and some drummers stop and comment that something sounds wrong. It's like effects on electric guitar. Now when someone plays electric guitar straight they get labeled as a "jazz guitarist". The styles and tastes may change, but right now this seems to be it. And it does sound good on a lot of things.
 
I never put anything on my heads to deaden them. I also have never recorded real drums. I've only played them live and don't have any mics for my kit. So the more resonance the better. I actually really like the sound of all the toms ringing when I hit the bass drum :). But that probably also would drive a recording guy nuts.

I also think there is a lot to what you guys are saying about hitting a drum correctly. I always have to hit them real hard when we're playing outside and it's frustrating. When I'm inside it's a lot easier cause a kick drum can fill up the room pretty easy if it's tuned good, but outside it's damn near impossible to get by without a mic on the kick drum. I've got another outside gig next weekend so I'm off to the store to buy a kick drum mic.
 
I think this "over deadening" technique is due largely to the fact that most drummer's don't know how to tune or haven't experimented enough with tuning and head combos to know how to get a GOOD wide open sound.

Also, many engineers/producers are still stuck in the good ole' 70's duct tape era of recording. Unfortunately for this grandfathered technique, recording, drums and drummers have come a long way since then.
 
dripgoss said:
I think this "over deadening" technique is due largely to the fact that most drummer's don't know how to tune or haven't experimented enough with tuning and head combos to know how to get a GOOD wide open sound.
Click to expand...

Amen. I often wonder what would happen to a guitar player that didn't know how to tune their instrument...
 
Drum tuning

I'd have to agree with the drum tuning. Most do not know how to properly tune a kit. Some know little about proper "stroking". Ah the advent of the electronic "V-Drum"... Just set it and forget it...lol

I use ol' Slingerlands the bass 22 x 14 ... Oh yes I change heads often.

Keepin' Time! :cool:

Stevie_B
 
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