WHO SAYS THE VS RECORDERS ARE BAD?

M

musicmanx

New member
I have read some posts that say that you can't get a good sound out of the VS series recorders....I beg to differ.

Those units offer a flexibility that exceeds their respective cost. It's all about what you do with it.

Those in doubt...check out my stuff. though my mixing skills are in need of work...the quality of the work can't be ignored. :)

My Songs
 
All effects were internal...a board was used to submix the drums....a DBX 586 dual mic pre was used on the vocals. Thats it...all effects...(guitars/bass/vocals) were done internally.....

p.s. thank you monty, and it was done on a VS840EX.

[This message has been edited by musicmanx (edited 06-12-2000).]
 
What's going on? Am I the only one who listened or is everyone afraid to post their honest opinion? I mean it's great for a VS840. The drum mix could be improved and I didn't listen on a great system, but it's an 840. What do they expect? The song and concept is great. Am I digging my hole deep enough?
 
I just thought this was the place we weren't supposed to talk about music :D.

Yeah, the drums are a bit muddy... not very present. The vocs panned hard right are a bit odd, but no biggie I suppose.

Oh, yeah... *slaps Monty*

[This message has been edited by pglewis (edited 06-12-2000).]
 
I'm gonna join you in that hole monty. Musicmanx, to tell the truth, I thought this recording was very "demo" quality.

"the quality of the work cant be ignored"...I beg to differ. I thought the songs were cool, but in reality the drums sounded somwhat dead to me. It sounds really "claustrophobic" to me, really boxey. And over all I thought the recording was quite muddy. I hear alot of artifacts from the mp3 compression as well, so that may have something to do with it.

I dont mean to be mean here, but you opened yourself up for this. When I post to the mp3 clicinc, I want people's honest opinion, not candy. So there you have it.


ametth

[This message has been edited by ametth (edited 06-13-2000).]
 
Hmmmm..must have been me that said that, because I know I did somewhere.

Downloaded Sail Away, and will not take it back. The production quality is about what I would expect from a low bit precision processor. Grainy, thin, no real depth. This IS taking into account the mp3 conversion too.

I have never been impressed with the A/D converters on Roland gear. They just don't offer up a very warm sound. They always sound like they have a Tascam eq sound to them, brittle, hard, a bit noisy.

I just about clipped my ears off with that clean guitar that was panned right. It was mixed too high and needed some serious roll off around 4-7KHz.

Also, I didn't groove how the mix was balanced at all. Most everything was panned left, except the annoying guitar.

I DID like the song though. Very well written.

Oh well. Not bad for a cheapy box. But, definately demo quality.

Ed
 
Ooops, I should have mentioned that I only listened to "All Fall Down", so my comments above apply to that tune.

Hey, guys, I'm not so sure that the VS box is completely to blame here. I'm sure there is plenty of room for improvement in the mix even with the equipment involved.

How many mics are there on the drum kit, and what are ya usin'? You can probably improve things a lot with mic placement and EQ. Do you EQ a lot on the way to the recorder?
 
The VSs can do a lot, but it depends on the input chain, engineering skills of the user, and investing in proper mastering. I've sent out a few songs to people on CD (I have the 880 EX) and the people who heard it were blown away. And, this is with a bare bones input chain (Rode NT-1 and ART Tube MP) and no mastering. When I've finished my project, I intend to get it professionally mastered. I know for a fact that it will sound great.

I've heard CDs recorded on the 880 by a professional using two AKG 414s, and two ART MPs. It was then professionally mastered. The sound on these CDs is as good as anything I've heard done in a real studio, because the guy who did the engineering (Doug Robinson) is a pro.

I can assure you that my stuff is not 'grainy', harsh, brittle, etc. I just know enough to bounce trax as little as possible, not overuse FX or EQ, and the sound is great. Then again, I used a lowly Porta 424 before the 880 EX, so what do I know? :D
 
I liked Sail Away but I thought the drums were weak on All Fall Down. I definatly dig your tunes though.
 
I'm pretty sure these songs have already been posted in the MP3 forum about a month or so ago, that's why I didn't make any comments here. I'm also pretty sure I commented back then, so I figured if he was interested in what we thought of his work, he should reread the old posts.
 
thanks for the replys...i agree the mix needs work...as do my engineering techniques...but....the potential for great recordings is there with the VS840EX... Regardless of what anyone says...I've recorded in studios with $150,000 worth of gear, and my stuff sounds better...now i will be the first to admit that the man behind the machine has a whole lot to do with sound quality, but if i can come close to someones recordings who owns a whole lot of outboard gear and I only spent a third of the money... then I think thats money well spent.

P.S. I was just making a point...not looking for hits....you guys are paranoid and at times unfriendly.....not really interested if you would have been nicer in a different forum.......sounds like you just look for an excuse to be a prick.



[This message has been edited by musicmanx (edited 06-13-2000).]
 
In Ed's defense, I must say that he does not need to look for an excuse to be a prick...
:D

[This message has been edited by Brad (edited 06-13-2000).]
 
I'll be the last to insult somebody intentionally or pick an Internet fight, and we definitely don't need another full scale flame war here for at least a week or so don't take this the wrong way, but...

musicmanx, the title you started with was in all caps, which is equivalent to barging into a room and yelling it at everybody. You brought the attitude to the party, so everything that happened after that should have been expected to some extent. Except for the p.s. in your last post you seem to accept that. Posting the exact same stuff under a different name also isn't the coolest thing in the world, and someone always catches that when it happens. If you have read other posts in this forum and other forums over the last month, which obivously you have from your original comments, then you should have known what you were getting into by starting a thread off like that. All that, plus posting in the wrong forum won't endear you to people here, whether or not they are nice people in general (which I bet they are actually.) I know the VS recorders are capable machines, I have one myself, but they aren't the ultimate home recording device. Everything I've ever posted here was recorded on an 880. I wouldn't compare them to lots of expensive outboard processing gear, but more to a computer based environment with DirectX effects. Then the prices are even for the most part and the quality debate can then take place.

As for your stuff, I downloaded both songs and agree that they are good songs and that the VS machines are good for recording in a home studio environment. I understand the point you were trying to make. I posted a POD recording a while back because I wanted to see what other people thought of the tones and maybe let people here what it was capable of with the default settings. It got a different response than your post here because I approached it with a different tone, in the correct forum, and it wasn't a repost under a new name. I don't think people are just looking for an excuse to tear you and your music apart. I think they are responding in like fashion to the perceived attitude of your original post here, whether or not it was intended to come off that way.
 
Now see what you did Ed? You hurt his feelings. Why couldn't you just lie to him like I did? :D

Musicmanx...you wanted opinions and Ed gave you his honest opinion. I agree with what he said and would have said something similar myself but I didn't want to burst your bubble. I think you're being the prick. As Brad pointed out, Ed needs no excuse. :D

Good songs though. Shit what more do you want? If you could get the same results with a $150,000 studio, then why aren't there more studios around with nothing but an 840, and some mics?

Some advice if you continue posting;
There are a few people on this site you don't want to fuck with, because if you fuck with them, you are fucking with all the others on this site who respect their opinions.

[This message has been edited by monty (edited 06-13-2000).]
 
I liked the songs... but agree with Ed on the sound quality.
My partner and I recorded an entire cd on a Korg D8.
Although every non-musician who's heard it thinks it sounds great, the trained ears of someone like Ed can pick it to pieces. After all, we're talking about a 16 bit digital recording that has it's limits. The strongpoints of our cd are that the songs (so we are told by many) are well written and performed.
While the songs may sound good, they'd be a zillion times better on 2 inch tape.... there's no disputing that.
And as far as your little spot on MP3 goes, you may have overdone it a bit on the "me - me - it's all me, alone" thing. I play all the same instruments as you, like a couple hundred other people on this site. Not that you're not talented... (you are), it's just a bit overstated.
Instead of patting yourself on the back, you should be critical of your own work. I'm selling most of my equipment and upgrading to a 24 bit-16 track machine, a better preamp, better mics, better cables, and built a soundproof booth for our next recording project. I'd spend more if I could. But, my partner and I are willing to spend a thousand dollars to master our next cd in order to get radio airplay... if that's what it takes.
Never rest on your laurels if you are that serious about your music,though. There's too much competition out there, and a lot of it is damned good.
BTW... I'll post some of our tunes in the next several days when it's possible. I have some family business to take care of first.

Buck
 
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