Who knows Speakers! YaY!

  • Thread starter Thread starter capnkid
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capnkid said:
The THD is rated for 185 watts. He doesn't say much about the Marshall powerbrake, puts it down a little though.
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that doesn't set off any alarms in my head. i've heard the powerbrake dogged more than any other piece of equipment i can think of.

Harvey Gerst said:
I haven't heard a lot of the newer crop of speakers, but I respect Ted Weber stuff a lot, the guys over at Eminence are pretty damn sharp, and I suspect the Chinese will eventually become a strong presence in this field.
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weber speakers get a lot of thumbs up from guys i've talked to. i haven't tried any weber speakers myself but i've been told that he has a couple of speakers that do the celestion thing much better than the current celestions.

something i'm curious about: why the old celestions sound better than the chinese stuff (i've heard them and they do to my ears). is it the paper used for the cone? why does the old stuff always sound better than the new? :p it's like some kind of twisted conspiracy aimed at musicians.
 
Part of it is aging the surround and spider which loweres the resonance a bit and as the speaker cone flexes over time, the sound mellows out.
 
Harvey Gerst said:
Part of it is aging the surround and spider which loweres the resonance a bit and as the speaker cone flexes over time, the sound mellows out.
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TravisinFlorida said:
why does the old stuff always sound better than the new?
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Maybe the secret is wear and tear? Old amps, tubes, speakers, pickups, microphones............bands. Most of the time the old stuff does sound better. Even the good modern bands are using the old equipment when they can get their hands on it.
 
Harvey Gerst said:
Part of it is aging the surround and spider which loweres the resonance a bit and as the speaker cone flexes over time, the sound mellows out.
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I remember hearing a friend's 4x12 celestion loaded cab, that was spanking new, for the first time. It sounded great right out of the store. It had the pre china speakers in it.
 
TravisinFlorida said:
I remember hearing a friend's 4x12 celestion loaded cab, that was spanking new, for the first time. It sounded great right out of the store. It had the pre china speakers in it.
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The Chinese probably haven't yet learned how to get it right.
 
Harvey Gerst said:
Lots of fuckin' questions, indeed.

In a 4x12 cabinet, the load is distributed equally among all four speakers, so each speaker only has to handle about 25 watts out of the total 100 watts available.

1. "RMS" is the average power output of a steady state signal, like a single, sustained note. It's about 70% of the actual voltage.

1a. "Peak power" is the amp's ability to put out very brief bursts of power when needed. Most amp manufacturers usually put it at around double the RMS power, but some manufacturers go crazy with insane peak ratings.

2. "Response" is the frequency range the speaker can put out reasonable signal levels in. In the case of the 80Hz to 5 KHz you mentioned, that's the response of the speaker, from the lowest note it can handle (about the low E on a standard guitar) to the highest note (the overtones of the highest note on the fretboard).

3. The voice coil diameter is part of the spec of the motor that drives the speaker cone. Other parts of that spec are the magnet size, coil length, gap length, and flux density. A larger diameter coil (assuming everything else stays exactly the same) will help prevent cone breakup in thin walled speaker cones.

3a. For the reasons just mentioned; it's a factor, but it's just one factor in the speaker's overall sound.

4. Magnet size does matter, but only with regards to how much magnetic flux is in the gap of the speaker (where the voice coil sits). With a wide gap, you may need a lot bigger magnet than you would need with a narrower gap speaker.

4a. Magnet size translates to greater efficiency, assuming everything else stays the same.
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Brilliant!

Harvey, you are the man! You have a way about explaining complex issues that keeps the reader interested. You have enlightened thousands to some degree. You should be proud.

Bravo!
 
ez_willis said:
Brilliant!

Harvey, you are the man! You have a way about explaining complex issues that keeps the reader interested. You have enlightened thousands to some degree. You should be proud.

Bravo!
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Geez, I asked the questions. What about me? You could just as easily have said; "Capn', you are the man! You have a way about asking complex issues that keeps the readers interested. You have peaked the interest of thousands to some degree. You should be proud."
 
Harvey Gerst said:
Incidentally, while most people here think of me as some kind of "mic guru", most of my life has been spent in designing PA and musical instrument speakers for various companies, most notably JBL, Acoustic Control, Delta, Ross, Charvel, and Jackson.
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I need 2 JBL 310G's or recone the old ones, can you hook me up? :D They don't make that one anymore what would be a good substitute?
 
I don't mean to have a big brown smear on my nose, but I've learned more from Harvey here than just about anyone else. There should be a, "Best of Harvey" page somewhere that archives all the good stuff.
That said, this is a topic that always needs more dispelling of the myths that abound. In particular, I'd like to know more about the relationship between magnet size, material, and power handling, as well as the basics of coil dynamics and it's effects upon the sound of speakers. If anyone knows of reliable information sources on this topic, I'd be grateful to them for links or explanations.
 
Capn', you are the man! You have a way about asking complex issues that keeps the readers interested. You have peaked the interest of thousands to some degree. You should be proud
 
capnkid said:
I need 2 JBL 310G's or recone the old ones, can you hook me up? :D They don't make that one anymore what would be a good substitute?
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You mean 130's? Try getting them reconed at Orange County Speaker Repair, or Ted Weber.
 
Flangerhans said:
This is a topic that always needs more dispelling of the myths that abound. In particular, I'd like to know more about the relationship between magnet size, material, and power handling, as well as the basics of coil dynamics and it's effects upon the sound of speakers. If anyone knows of reliable information sources on this topic, I'd be grateful to them for links or explanations.
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That's a really hard topic to put into simple terms. It's kinda like explaining how to build a microphone from scratch. While a lot of the stuff is science, there's also a hell of a lot of art that goes into it.

It's all about compromise; do something over here, and it changes something over there. Make the surround floppy (to increase travel) and you give up damping; increase the voice coil length and you increase the "back EMF" and the mass.

Remember Newton's Third Law of Motion: 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction'.

Well, it holds true for speakers as well, except I call it "Harvey's First Law of Design": 'Every time you make something" "better" in one area, you fuck something else up in another area'.
 
Harvey

While I've got you on the line (ever heard that one before?), do you know of any currently manufactured speaker that would be the equivalent or better than the EVM 12L, which in my limited experience is the best guitar speaker I've heard.
 
crazydoc said:
Harvey

While I've got you on the line (ever heard that one before?), do you know of any currently manufactured speaker that would be the equivalent or better than the EVM 12L, which in my limited experience is the best guitar speaker I've heard.
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The EV 12's never did that much for me, but a lotta people loved them. I suspect that Ted Weber or Eminence both have models that come pretty damn close.
 
crazydoc said:
Harvey

While I've got you on the line (ever heard that one before?), do you know of any currently manufactured speaker that would be the equivalent or better than the EVM 12L, which in my limited experience is the best guitar speaker I've heard.
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That is my favorite too.

Sorry I don't have much else to contribute to the thread, but after reading the whole thing I felt a need to write something. :o
 
I tried a Weber Blue Dog and Silver Bell in my Dividedby13, but when I put a Celestion Alnico Blue and a good old Vintage30 in it it really opened it up. The Celestion Alnico Blue is my favorite speaker and I just havent found anything that can truly replace it. Not even the new Gold version. But it all depends on what sound you're looking for and want to hear.
 
A big part of it is also gonna be the amp, the settings, the guitar, and your style of playing. Hendrix could sound like Hendrix, regardless of the amp, the speakers, or the guitar he used.
 
capnkid said:
So, if there are two speakers with the exact same ratings. coil diameter, magnet size etc. Why does one sound better than the other? Do you think people are to hung up on the celestion name?
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Ever looked at some of the flat screen TVs on the market? They all have the same specs, but for some reason the $2000 50" HDTVs don't look as good or last as long as the $5000 50" HDTVs.
 
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