Hey fatt, i respect your opinionon on those bands, but i think they are quite good. Slipknot is closer to a death metal band than a Nu Metal band, and Mudvayne i think are pretty impressive live. great bassist, and drummer. Good guitarist and i like the heavy vocals more than the mellow ones. I know alot of people hate them, but i think most judge based on appearance,and popularity and lesson musical content. I'mnot saying you are but i know alot of people that do. And i agree that Slipknot could be stripped of it's extra percussionists, and just have 1 guy for the sampling and stuff. Or get rid of it all together. I saw Mudvayne this last time around and they were heavy as fuck, and i would say as loud as Pantera used to be...i say this because Pantera is unfortunately done. Phil is sticking with Superjoint Ritual which sucks, cause Pantera blew that sloppy shit outta the water.