Which tubes for Art MPA Gold upgrade?

[second skin]

I cannot do that online...Ive just used other cheap preamps and put the tubes in and experimented...they are only good for adding noise...I do have some old 1960's Mullards I took out of an old amp head...it was a waste of time...but they did work nicely in a real tube preamp stage...and ART doesnt seem to make those

have you ever used an ART MPA Gold yourself? do you know what it is? its not the same at the ART MP. do some research before making statements that you don't know about. the tubes are in the circuit. we know that they are not the most high end thing on the market but many people are getting really nice results out of them, especially after a tube change.

mine has a nice pair of JAN 5751s in it that i got from KCA NOS tubes. i wasn't ready to leap for anything better because i was a bit skeptical myself when i bought them. they made a huge improvement over the stock tubes and the preamp sounds very nice. i can't wait to get something better but this is doing well for me for right now and provides a nice alternative to the other things that i have. i really like the variable impedance.

 

[Metal Marc]

mine has a nice pair of JAN 5751s in it that i got from KCA NOS tubes.

Hey, secondskin. Good to hear you got some great results. The more people I talk to about the MPA Golds, I keep hearing that the tubes DO matter, which is the opposite of what we're hearing from the naysayers. I also keep hearing positive stuff reviews about this preamp.

There are six types of JAN 5751's on the KCA NOS Tubes site. Which ones did you purchase? They are as follows:
- NOS JAN GE 5751 Grayplates with triple mica spacers -- $35 ea
- NOS JAN Philips 5751 -- $25 ea
- NOS JAN Sylvania 5751 -- $30 ea
- NOS RCA 5751 Blackplate -- $55 ea
- NOS Sylvania 5751 gray plates with triple mica spacers -- $55 ea
- NOS JAN GE 5751 (1980s) -- $20 ea

This weekend, I sent out close to 20 emails to tube dealers and other experts - or so-called experts - asking them for recommendations concerning which tubes to use in the ART MPA Gold. Of the responses I've received, most of them recommended I put NOS 5751's in the MPA Gold. Second was Tung Sols, which they said were great quality

One tube dealer - who claimed to be using UA and Great River preamps in his studio - told me he also owns and regularly uses two ART Digital MPA's. He said the quality of the MPA's greatly surpass their price, and that once he put in new JAN Phillips 5751's, it tripled the value of those preamps.

 

[second skin]

these.

- NOS JAN Philips 5751 -- $25 ea

mike is a great guy to do business with. i've bought from him three or four times and each time went well. once i even broke one of a matched set of 6L6s by dropping it and he found me another one that fit into the specs of the set as a replacement.

 

[antichef]

I cannot do that online...Ive just used other cheap preamps and put the tubes in and experimented...they are only good for adding noise...I do have some old 1960's Mullards I took out of an old amp head...it was a waste of time...but they did work nicely in a real tube preamp stage...and ART doesnt seem to make those

There's a pretty thorough discussion about the MPA and this issue somewhere around here... where was it... oh yeah -- *this thread* -- scroll up some

 

[darrin_h2000]

have you ever used an ART MPA Gold yourself? do you know what it is? its not the same at the ART MP. do some research before making statements that you don't know about. the tubes are in the circuit. we know that they are not the most high end thing on the market but many people are getting really nice results out of them, especially after a tube change.

mine has a nice pair of JAN 5751s in it that i got from KCA NOS tubes. i wasn't ready to leap for anything better because i was a bit skeptical myself when i bought them. they made a huge improvement over the stock tubes and the preamp sounds very nice. i can't wait to get something better but this is doing well for me for right now and provides a nice alternative to the other things that i have. i really like the variable impedance.

So you are saying that the tubey distortion is a nicer one now that you have planted an expensive tube in it...congratulations...you just bought an expensive light bulb that looks the same glowing in there as a 12 dollar sovtek.

I know this stuff isnt cheap to you...but you should stay away from stuff like ART...if you want a tube pre...a Brick is a good one...and as cheap as a real one gets.

Heck even I had a Bluetube when I was starting out.

 

[second skin]

So you are saying that the tubey distortion is a nicer one now that you have planted an expensive tube in it...congratulations...you just bought an expensive light bulb that looks the same glowing in there as a 12 dollar sovtek.

I know this stuff isnt cheap to you...but you should stay away from stuff like ART...if you want a tube pre...a Brick is a good one...and as cheap as a real one gets.

Heck even I had a Bluetube when I was starting out.

it's not tubey distortion. i've heard things like the art tube mp and presonus toob stuff. i know what you are getting at. this is a different ball game run at real plate voltage. not to mention that i did not put an expensive tube in. i spent somewhere around 60 bucks for the set and about 200 for the preamp. it's not expensive at all to me, and i'm in the midst of saving and planning my next upgrade but this will do for now.

besides. i think my results have been pretty good and will speak for themselves. in fact i've posted clips on this forum where i used the MPA for various things within mixes.

 

[mshilarious]

So you are saying that the tubey distortion is a nicer one now that you have planted an expensive tube in it...congratulations...you just bought an expensive light bulb that looks the same glowing in there as a 12 dollar sovtek.

I know this stuff isnt cheap to you...but you should stay away from stuff like ART...if you want a tube pre...a Brick is a good one...and as cheap as a real one gets.

Heck even I had a Bluetube when I was starting out.

1) The distortion in the MPA is quite low. You should try measuring it.

2) The MPA is a good quiet preamp. In fact, I posted a clip of me whispering into a low-sensitivity dynamic mic (Shure 55SH) using the DMPA. Try the same test on a Brick, and see what you get. While you're at it, measure the Brick's distortion too.

3) 12A_7 tubes don't really glow much at all.

4) I am using vintage GE tubes I got for about $5. My approach is to find a seller on eBay who is dumping a box of tubes, and sort through them to find the good ones. Keep the best, resell the rest individually as tested, trash the junk. You can even come out ahead that way. Free vintage tubes!

5) Since you obviously have no experience with this unit, you should limit your comments on such matters.

 

[darrin_h2000]

Just trying to steer some of the newbs from investing a bunch of money in the stuff they will be kicking themselves for buying in a few months...and ART...presonus...and other toob junk has no place in my rack anymore.

I do have alot better now and if I had the money I spent spinning my wheels on the flashy home hobby gear...

 

[Rust E-Z]

Just trying to steer some of the newbs from investing a bunch of money in the stuff they will be kicking themselves for buying in a few months...and ART...presonus...and other toob junk has no place in my rack anymore.

I do have alot better now and if I had the money I spent spinning my wheels on the flashy home hobby gear...

Yea but this pre amp is an exception to the rule. If you did a search on it at gearsluts you could find out alot about it.

Your alot better off learning about gear specificly than judging purely by brand name. Think of all the poor saps that bought 411s thinking it was like other Porsche's. Sometimes art can make a winner and Telefunken can sell a boner.

Just for the heck of it do some research on the "MPA Gold". You might be out of line on this one despite your good intentions.

 

[darrin_h2000]

Yea but this pre amp is an exception to the rule. If you did a search on it at gearsluts you could find out alot about it.

Your alot better off learning about gear specificly than judging purely by brand name. Think of all the poor saps that bought 411s thinking it was like other Porsche's. Sometimes art can make a winner and Telefunken can sell a boner.

Just for the heck of it do some research on the "MPA Gold". You might be out of line on this one despite your good intentions.

are you talking about the porsche 914...a mate of mine bought one in HS...then got all the shirts and porsche crappy chlothes...lol.

I have to say I did go right to ARTs reputation on this one...from the description it still seemed like a starved plate design...I switched over to a Neve clone and and Avalon a couple of years back...last ART Id seen was inferior to the presonus bluetube I started with.

 

[Rust E-Z]

Yes, I did mean the 914.

 

[second skin]

I have to say I did go right to ARTs reputation on this one...last ART Id seen was inferior to the presonus bluetube I started with.

exactly. you are talking out your ass about things that you don't know anything about. go do some research before you spread around unfounded opinions. that goes for anything whether high end or low end.

no one here is pretending that this preamp is anything like a neve or whatever but it is widely regarded as one of the best of the under 500 dollar crowd. when stepping stones are needed this one is pretty solid.

 

[Eric F]

last ART Id seen was inferior to the presonus bluetube I started with.

I will certainly agree that most of the ART stuff is worse - or certainly no better - than the Presonus Bluetube (also my first pre), but as most people here have been saying, the design of the MPA Gold/Digital MPA is not like the rest of the ART product line.

I swapped the stock tubes in my DMPA for JJs and was stunned at how much more open and clear the sound became. After all the reports of even better sound with NOS tubes, I may give tha a try also.

No one should be fooled into thinking the MPA is on an equal level with UA, etc. tube pres (I don't think anyone has tried to make that claim), but for less than $400 (including new tubes), the MPA is a gem for those on a tight budget - as many of us are.

 

[MOFO Pro]

Without looking at the schematic... and just from observations posted in this forum, it's my understanding that the MPA is very close to a starved plate design but with a full plate voltage... that may be the source of confusion here.

 

[Eric F]

Without looking at the schematic... and just from observations posted in this forum, it's my understanding that the MPA is very close to a starved plate design but with a full plate voltage... that may be the source of confusion here.

The MOST important factor in all of it - no matter the circuit design - is how it sounds. We can argue about the technical aspects of tube/toob usage all day long, and discuss the occurance of even or odd harmonics, but there is one factor about the MPA Gold that has been confirmed time and time again...

...the MPA Gold is one of the best sounding preamps available for sub-$400. Sound is ALL that matters. If it sounds good, it is good.

It's easy to be snobby about gear when you can drop $1000+ on a single-channel pre, but for many, many home/project studio setups, that kind of budget just isn't realistic. We make do the best we can with the resources we have, and spending wisely is critical.

 

[mshilarious]

Without looking at the schematic... and just from observations posted in this forum, it's my understanding that the MPA is very close to a starved plate design but with a full plate voltage

What does that even mean? It's a hybrid design, yes. That's a good idea, I find. The main problem with tubes is you can't use 20 of them in a circuit. Well you can, but I can't afford the price or the heat . . .

By my count, the MPA has four gain stages: one discrete, two ICs (two opamps each), and one tube (twin triode). With the ICs, it probably has a total of 80+ transistors and 2 triodes per channel. Yes, ART used a current source on the tube to reduce distortion. Some people think that is perfectly acceptable in a discrete transistor circuit, but the root of all evil in a tube circuit. Unless, of course, I guess you use another tube as the current source.

But if you want the distortion back, just switch the plate supply back to low . . . I never do except for DI.

The only downside to the unit I can find is that you can't crush the tube really hard without killing the following IC stage. That could be addressed rather easily with a pad pot after the tube. I never use the analog output; I'll have to think about modding that pot to act as a post-tube attenuator . . .

 

[MOFO Pro]

What does that even mean? It's a hybrid design, yes.

That what it means...

Jeeze, I didn't say it was a bad design, just that the circuitry had confused some people into thinking it was a starved plate pre when it wasn't...

 

[darrin_h2000]

No one should be fooled into thinking the MPA is on an equal level with UA, etc. tube pres (I don't think anyone has tried to make that claim), but for less than $400 (including new tubes), the MPA is a gem for those on a tight budget - as many of us are.

Line 6 UX8 is being clearanced out at $350 at guitar center...its an 8 channel with 8 different preamp models and super low self noise...even if it were 1 channel it would still beat anything in that price range.

 

[dickiefunk]

I've been doing a little more research on tubes for the MPA Gold.

I'm going to be mainly recording Vocals and from what I've learnt the Telefunken 12AX7 and long plate GE12AX7 are about the best options before spending silly money!?

I've also heard good things about the Mullards but from what I understand these really excell at Electric Guitar etc?

 

[Metal Marc]

I've also heard good things about the Mullards but from what I understand these really excell at Electric Guitar etc?

Yes. Mullards are great for guitar amps.

Found this 12AX7 Tube Review (The Tube Store.com). It's pretty good, but it doesn't address older/NOS tubes.

I'm a new owner of an ART MPA Gold. I have to say that it's far and away the best sounding stock two-channel pre under $500 I've heard or recorded with. It sounded great right out of the box. After a week and a half, I bought a a matched pair (w/balance triodes) of JAN Phillips 5751's. They were less than $25 each. My MPA Gold sounds, IMHO, like a preamp worth three times as much. What a bargain!