Which of these mics is best for sample recording?

J

jmeager

New member
Hi,

I record a lot of my own samples for slicing and cutting up in Reaktor / Max / Ableton. I record mainly guitars through amps (with / without effects), percussive noises (including hits from around my house) and other acoustic instruments (ukuleles etc...).

At the moment I'm borrowing mics, but I want to buy my own.

I have two choices:

Buy one really good quality tube mic, the SE Z5600a MK II Mic

OR

Get an SM57 and a condenser mic - maybe something like the SE3300a or something from the Rode NT series (recommendations appreciated!).

What would be the best option?

I know a tube mic will give a real warmth and character to my samples, but will I get better overall results with two mics?
 
Big Kenny said:
a pair of mk012's and an AT4040
Click to expand...

The 4040 looks interesting - though at the moment the 3 mic setup is a bit out of my price range.

I know the Z5600a is expensive, but I've found a superb deal locally, so it makes it more viable.

I suppose my real question is, would one quality mic by best for my needs or would two more affordable mics be better?
 
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Ok - someone in another forum said to get the SM57 without question.

I'm still concerned that just getting an SM57 and a cheaper condenser will not add the character to my sound that a Tube might?
 
A tube adds distortion...thats what the character is...you might as well save that cash and get some free plug-in to give your samples a tooby sound.
 
Thanks for the advice.

I understand it adds distortion - I wasn't sure whether the harmonic distortion it introduces is something that can't really be replicated with a plug in.

I've actually found somewhere I can get the Z5600a for the same price as an SM57 plus an affordable condenser.

Do you still suggest the SM57 and a plugin, or would you go for a real tube if the price was right?
 
Don't know the SE, but there's something to be said for having tone and style options. A dynamic like the 57's different mid presence tone plus how it handles transients, vs. which ever sparkly detail' condenser. Cool thing is there are lots of interesting relatively low cost dynamics, you could add on later, buy used.

And will it always mono?
 
Yeh, in the majority of cases I'll be recording in mono - it'll be rare I try stereo.

I suppose really with a combination of two mics, the condenser can be set up in the room, and the 57 right on the cab right?
 
sample?

Sample is a pretty broad word. Are you making patches to use with a synthesizer? Getting a feel for how acoustic instruments sound recorded, versus live? Making a demo? Looking to make some loops for a backing track? What exactly are you looking for from a "sample"?

For a synth, you'd probably want a dynamic like the 57. Get the base sound, no room, sounds pretty much the same sampled at 8kHz as 48kHz. (not really, but more so than other options)

For a demo, you'd probably want a condenser. Is it live or memorex?

And other considerations. The MK-012's are a good recommendation, but it really depends on for what? It sounds a little like you're doing the loop thing, but it's also kind of unclear.
 
Thanks for the message - sorry for not being clear enough.

I'm looking to make short loops that I'll then slice and use with an NI Maschine, Max/MSP and Reaktor. I also want to record 'one hits'. So it's not so much backing tracks, or demos, more samples of real instruments to use in a song arrangement, and process to creatively make new sounds.

The vast majority of the sounds will be recorded in my studio room.

I really want to maintain the 'feeling' of the samples throughout the processing of them, which I guess is where my question comes from.

Does this help?
 
jmeager said:
I really want to maintain the 'feeling' of the samples throughout the processing of them, which I guess is where my question comes from.
Click to expand...

So you want a what you hear is what you get mic?

How much processing are we talking about on the back end. Just cut and paste? Or converting to 8kHz to use as midi patches and other things. Barking dog version of jingle bells and what not. With looping you might be more concerned with inherent noise floor than the mics themselves. Which might rule out dynamics and ribbons. Tube mics would be a bit colored / noisy as well. The low noise floor so you can insert and remove layers without the noise floor preceeding the actual sounds. Mainly because you'll likely not be layering tracks in the more tradition full track per track sense.
 
Yes and no - I certainly want clarity and definition to the sound, at the same time I want the samples to have a character to them. If the coloration of the mic is right then this could be a plus, but certainly noise is a concern. Does that make sense?

I understand this could be achieved through plugins, but I'm not sure whether that would get the best results.

Processing includes playing samples through granular samples players and 'resampling' them, slicing and rearranging samples, adding line effects then resampling (inc. filters and delays).

Some recent things I have recorded are: guitar thru reverse reverb (EHX Cathedral) thru Vox amp; playing my towel rail percussively; a friend playing flute; 'ambient' house sounds.

Much appreciate all your help so far :)
 
As long as you have a loud source (and proximity) you can use pretty much any mic and not have to worry too much about noise floor. But if you're not that close and/or your source is not that loud, then mics like ribbons and dynamics require a lot of gain. Which on low end gear means a lot of noise added by the preamp to get that gain. Countered by a much higher budget than that which you seem to be settling on for your proposed mics. And that budget would go towards the signal chain, and not the mics.

Percussion on a towel rail would work good with an SM57. Crickets in the corner, not so much. Corner and proximity in a loud tile bathroom, maybe. Although crickets might be considered a loud source relative to some singers I've witnessed over the years.

It's much easier to add distortion and color in post, than to remove it if you don't want it. Take a few samples and play around in audacity some time. I keep finding new effects and other things to help me out in that little piece of software. For when multiband EQ, hard limiter, Normalize / Amplify is not enough.
 
Thanks for your advice.

I'll have a look around at some condensers and then see what the correct one is for me.

Then maybe I'll get an SM57 sometime in the future.
 
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