Which came first, mic or pre?

S

stuckatwork

New member
Ok, I know this has been hashed over way too many times but I have to ask again. Maybe if you're bored enough you can read through my sob story...
So I was down at GC the other day, seeing if the could order a joemeek MQ3 so I could try it out my vocals. I can't find one in town and I'm NOT going to buy one unheard. Well retard behind the counter said if I ordered a joemeek their would be no return policy because it's not a regular item they keep instock. He suggested a Bellari RP50 and he pulled out an AT 3035, pluged me in and left me alone. I spoke into the mic and low and behold, I was one step closer to god! There it was, the low-mid compression that sounded like I was sitting in howard sterns chair. While not the greatest sound I've ever heard, my voice sounded a lot more beefier and more like me then my studio projects C1. Well, as much as I hated the Bellari's controls and compressor, I felt it deserved a chance at my C1. I bought it and took it home and it really was no better then my Alesis preamps or my Aardvard preamps. Soo....It was the mic! Back to GC. Now I'm very confused. All I'm looking for is one good vocal channel. My C1 sounds great and I really like it but it doesn't match my voice as well as it should. I'm guessing the 3035 isn't going to be my mic either, I wasn't very happy with the top end on it. Well I've got $400 and a buddy who will buy my C1 for $200(as much as I don't wat to sell it). If I do end up ordering a joemeek, is it going to be what I'm looking for or a significant step up from the preamps I've got? If I go on the endless mic search what mics should I make sure and check out? Should I get a preamp and a mic or just concentrate on a mic until I can afford a great preamp? But I've got limited time, I'll be laying down vocals for our CD in about 2 or 3 weeks! Help!
 
Something to consider...

Stuckatwork,

How were you hearing it at GC? Were you speaking/singing live through headphones? Is that how you were hearing it at home, or were you listening to your recorded playback at home? Apples & oranges, IMO. When you're singing live, especially through headphones, you get a fuller, richer sound due to the transmission of the vibrations through the bone in your head. That's why everybody always freaks out when they hear their voice recorded for the first time. They're not used to hearing it without that added internal vibration.

If that isn't the case, then it seems to me that the obvious answer would be that if you liked what you heard from that mic-pre combination, then you should consider getting THAT mic-pre combination. I personally have no experience with either, but I have read (almost) nothing but good things about the 3035, and nothing but bad things about the Bellari pre's. I don't know that I've ever heard anything done with that pre, but Longwavestudio has done a couple of excellent recordings with a female singer (sort of Christina Aguillara-like) over in the mixing clinic using a 3035 and a VQ6(?).

Personally, I think the sound you're getting from your C-1 and Ardvark are great, and would be envied by many here. I wish I could get it. Just my opinion.

If you end up getting the 3035, let me know how it goes, I've sorta been considering one myself.

Keep us posted.
 
Thanks for the reply. When I tried the mic preamp combo at GC I was monitoring through a pair of sony headphones. I've got the same pair at home. It's gotta be the mic. I'm taking my C1 down to GC this weekend to be 100% sure.
The bellari is wierd... When I first got it home and plugged my C1 into it, it had the same warm rich character as it did at guitar center. It had that same character through a 57 as well. I did some AB's against my alesis board and the bellari seemed like it was a notch up. Then I had our drummer listen about 20 minutes later and he couldn't tell a difference. I listened again and the character I liked was gone and it sounded very much the same as the board. I realize that the bellari is a tube circut and it's gonna chage after it warms up but I absolutely cannot have it going from suck to blow during a recording session. Besides that, the compression and the EQ were almost unuseable.
I don't know what to do. The C1 sounds sweet but now I lie awake at night thinking that my sound could be better. Is any pre I buy for $200 going to be better then my Aardvark or Alesis?
Has anyone tried the baby blue bottle?
 
Could've been a bad tube, or it just could be the nature of that beast. If you had used that combo at GC for the same length of time, it might have changed also. You can try the mic, but make damn sure you can take it back, 'cause I really don't think you'll get the same sound you heard unless you use that EXACT combination. Now, on the other hand, you might discover something even better when you try the 3035 on your current pre's.

Isn't it great that we have things like this to obsess about? Like my wife always tells me, we could be gathering firewood in Bosnia.
 
Yeah, It's bullsh*t that you can't return mics at GC due to "health risks". The salesman there was sure concerned about "health risks" when he sat the mic down on it's top on the floor. I was just looking at it going WTF...?
I'm almost sure that pre's not the winner. I bought it with 99% chance of returning it in a few day.
I was just thinking the same thing about obsessing over gear. I really am obsessed... I think this forum fuels it. I'm here at work everyday for 8 hours straight lurking. I used to be cool... really.
 
Sounds like a classic case of cheapo tube gear.

One of the commonly held truths is that quality tube gear is much more expensive than quality solid state gear on the budget end of things. You won't find tube pres that sound particularly good in that price range.

The preamps on your ardvark are probably just fine for budget pres, and I doubt you'll get much better untill you start forking out at least $600 on a Grace Design or a Peavey VMP2.

For $200 the Joemeek will at least give you some pretty cool compression (and usable eq) to play with. The m-audio dmp3 will probably be a little quieter and more transparent. The only other possibility I could think of would be a used Symetrix 528E from ebay. But neither of these will be a tremendous step up from your ardvark in terms of the preamp alone.

Good luck.
 
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stuck, the Meek units work well with a C1 in general.
Rather than getting a new microphone at this point,
you may just want to get a Meek, and get more comfortable
using your C1. Have you tried different microphone placements?
Any of us working on our vocal technique and performance level
will make a MUCH greater difference than which pre we use IMO.
(Hey if Pavoratti needs to practice...)

Chris

P.S. Don't get/keep the Bellari BTW!
 
Thanks guys for your input! The Bellari is on it's way back to GC. I really want to try the Joemeek but I called every dealer listed on their websight in Seattle and no one has the MQ3. If I orderd it I would lose the return policy as it's not a regular item on anyone inventory. There's one place in town that has the vc1q. Would I be able to get an accurate representation of th MQ3 from testing out that?
I've tried every mic position I could think of with my C1. I've tried it in my nose I've tried under my chin, I've tried it with the pop filter, without, 1 inch away, 6 inches away, 1 foot away, my lips on the screen, upsidedown, backwards, in a closet with the door closed and open with clothes in or out and every variation in between, into a blanket, in a hallway, underneath a pile of blankets, in a makeshift dead vocal closet with fiberglass bass traps and without, in a corner, in the middle of the room, screaming ito it, singing just over a whisper. Everything! I really am obsessed... Shoot me!
The C1 sounds great, just isn't as rich as the 3035 as far as my limited testing time could tell. Maybe there's something else out there that even better...
I'm really interested in the Joemeek and if anyone has any ideas on how I can get my hands on one, even for a few hours, I'd appreciate it.
 
You might try getting in touch with Longwavestudio, as he has experience with both of the pieces of gear you're considering (the 3035 & the Meek stuff). He might be able to tell you which item contributes what to the sound.

FWIW, I keep hearing people saying that the mic is so much more important than the pre, yet I recall Harvey saying something to the effect that a 57 through a Mackie and a 57 through a Great River are two completely different animals. Just some food for thought (like you needed any more!).

Also, try Musician's Friend on the net for the Meek. They have a fairly liberal return policy for something like that. Or Sweetwater or Full Compass.
 
I am sure you are confused, but there is more confusion about to happen. First of all, I have dealers that will sell you a Joemeek MQ3 to try in your home studio. If you are unhappy, you can return it.

Secondly, the Studio Projects VTB1 is now here. I received the first production unit today and did a complete test. I am very happy with the run, and we will ship the units as soon as I get back from NAMM as they will be all in test and QC until then. I also will have dealers that will let you buy a VTB1 and again, if you are not happy, you can return it.

The list on the VTB1 is $199.99, so my guess is about $169.00 in the stores or less. Yes, it is a new mic pre and no reviews yet. Yes, you will get no opinions on it here except mine, but that will all change soon enough.

If you have come this far, give the new Studio Projects VTB1 or the Joemeek MQ3 a shot. If you e-mail me at alan@pmiaudio.com , I can help you with a dealer. The Bellari, while a very nice unit will not compliment the C1 as well as these will. The Joemeek has way more features, mainly a compressor and an EQ. The VTB1 is way better quality and sonically superior. It's like the whole response of the C1 mic opens up. The VTB1 has the tube drive so there is plenty of warmth or air...if you want it. Turn it off or down, and you are sparkly clean. Lots of mic-pre features, but no compressor or EQ.

I know the C1 quite well, and have tried every mic pre out there with the C1. Anyway, like I said, I know what I know, and I know what I hear. Don't give up, what you are looking for is out there!!

Alan Hyatt
 
alanhyatt said:
The VTB1 has the tube drive so there is plenty of warmth or air...if you want it.
Click to expand...

Just curious Alan, what kind of voltage the plate is getting. Is this a starved-plate design?
 
chessrock said:


Just curious Alan, what kind of voltage the plate is getting. Is this a starved-plate design?
Click to expand...

Chessrock,

As I have said, the unit is not my design, but it is designed by one of my close friends at a very well known audio company.

It is not a 300V design as it uses a wall wart. I think the voltage on the unit is 60 or 70 volts, but I did not do any measuring today on AC. I only checked distortion and some other figures, as well as full bandwidth sweeps on the oscilloscope.

I have been testing this production unit all day against some very impressive mic-pres in our studio. I will be doing some sessions tomorrow in Los Angeles so I am bringing the unit for further listening tests, as there are also some heavyweight mic-pres in this studio.

I know what I hear and this unit is very impressive, but time will be the judge of that.

Alan Hyatt
 
Well I'm keeping my C1. I went down to GC Saturday and spent 4 hours ABing my C1 with every mic down there. The result, the Neumann TLM 103 is the only mic I tried worth upgrading to. If anyone is interested in my opinion on how th C1 stood up to the other mics, let me know and I'll post a comparison.
 
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