Where's the weak link in my chain?

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Tillamook

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If you were going to upgrade one item in this chain, with recording acoustic guitar in mind, and wanted to keep the cost in the $200-$350 range, what would you purchase?

sm57
at3035
mackie 1202vlzpro
audiophile 2496
cakewalk hs2004xl
wharfedale 8.2 diamond pro actives

Possibilities I'm considering (but I'm open to any suggestions):
Sonar 4 producer
mxl 603 (pair) or maybe those octava's that get mentioned a lot
dmp-3
delta 1010 or audiophile 192, not for sound quality but for the fun of more inputs and effect send and return capability.

Thanks,
Bill
 
Hi Bill, I take it you like the sound of your acoustic guitar... but you're not happy with the sound of your recorded acoustic guitar... and if so, what is it that you don't like about the recorded sound as oppose to the sound source (the guitar itself)?
 
DJL

I guess some adjectives that would describe what I looking for more of would be clarity, presence, airyness, detail. I have two acoustics, a Martin HD-35 and a Guild f-30 (spruce, mahogany), both nice sounding. I play around with mic positioning and gain lelvels, but it seems to me I'm losing something in the chain.


Bill
 
From reading the possibilities you're considering I think you already know your ready for a complete recording system upgrade... meaning, upgrading all or any one of the possibilities you're considering would be an improvement. I know, I know... which one first... considering your current recording equipment, I'd start with upgrading the mics.
 
Thanks, DJL.

I just bought that AT3035, pretty much a disappointment other than the fact that at least it gives me a different tonality than the SM57 and Rode NT-3 (forgot to mention the Rode). Now I'm scared to buy more mics, it's really difficult when you can't try them out first. I rarely get into Portland, the nearest big city. The last time I went there I thought I'd audition some nearfields, went to Apple Music, they had a few models hooked up in the aisle on the main floor, guys wanking off on electrics in the background. When I ask to listen to some monitors, the guy whips out his ipod and plugs it into the speaker, thanks Buddy. I can imagine what trying out mics would be like.

I appreciate you taking the time, your answer makes sense to me.

Hmmm, here's another question;
What would you think about getting one SM81 instead of a pair of 603s or Oktava 012s?

Bill
 
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I would think that it's your mics and pres too that need to be looked at first. Maybe I'm way off here, but I would think that if you love your guitar tone then you should look at the most 'transparent' mics and pres you can find in your range. Better people than me will tell you what that means for you ... maybe you even need one LDC and one SDC to get all the different tones of your guitars?

Sorry I'm not more help!
 
Thanks for responding, everybody.

Middleman: The Audiophile? I was thinking that was one of the strongest links in the chain. I'm only judging by what I've read on this forum, though, I have no personal experience with other pci interfaces.
 
Among your list it would be my choice for 2nd weakest. The mics are good, the software adequate, the monitors are good. The audiophile is a great starter card but once you get to the point you can afford better, you will know why I chose it second.

But, first and foremost, get a better preamp.
 
What you've got, basically, is some decent budget recording gear. There really isn't any one area that stands out as being any weaker than the others. You've got enough right now to make decent-sounding demos. Unless you're trying to be Joe Chicarelli or Steve Albini, you should do fine with what you've got.

What I'd do is just keep my eyes pealed for something that really sticks out to you as a "must-have." If nothing really comes around and knocks your socks off, then wait for something. Don't just upgrade for the sake of upgrading.
 
i kinda have to agree with middleman here......i like my 2496 card plenty--it's a great $100 card, even considering i paid $150 for it 3 years ago. however there is a substantial difference in the sound of it and the full-blown delta 1010 (i'm not talking the LT, but the rack-mount version). on the 1010, the converters just plain sound better to my ears.....the noisefloor's ~15dB less (granted, we're talking a low starting point in the first place), the inputs are on balanced TRS rather than on rcas, and the conversion happens outside the computer rather than inside. all of those things add up. still, i've made plenty of decent recordings with my 2496, and it's still in my machine b/c the extra 2 inputs is nice to have around "just in case".

still, i have to agree with Dot more......i'm certain that even with the 2496 card, if you were to get the DMP3 and a pair of 603's, you'd get a *substantial* improvement in sound over top of the 3035 and the mackie. i'd vote those two not as your weakest links, but as the first things you should address--*then* get the 1010. i just think that if you want immediate tangible improvements, you might find the 1010 coming up a little "short" when you're still fronting it with the mackie and 3035......the difference the 1010 makes will be more "subtle" compared to the difference in a pair of 603's/DMP3 vs Mackie/3035.


something to consider, though.....having heard and played a number of HD35's, it might be a little "ballsy" for the 603's. the 603's have a bit of a bump in the high end, and that might make them a little "too much" on that particular guitar. i have a D15 (all solid mahogany with a nice, mellow sound) and they're just what the doctor ordered. they're *not* all that great on my buddy's HD28. you might be best served getting a pair of the 603's *and* the oktava mc012's (along with the aforementioned DMP3) and keeping whichever set sounds better on your guitar in your room, as the mc012's tend to be a little darker in contrast to the 603's. float the credit card $150 for a few weeks and make an educated decision at home. can't tell you about the guild, but given the spruce/mahog, i'd wager it's a little more "mellow" than the hand-cannon known as the HD35 :D (and thus maybe a better mate for the 603's--you might find yourself getting/keeping both sets of mics b/c not every mic responds well to the every source).


cheers,
wade


PS--while i agree that it's generally bad to upgrade for the sake of upgrading, the sound of my guitar recordings went "through the roof" better (comparitively speaking) when i switched from my mono SP B1/VTB1 combo to a stereo pair of 603's paired with my Mackie24*4. sure, the B1 did a "perfectly fine" job recording it and i love my VTB1......but the pair of 603's (and positioning flexibility afforded therein) do the job so much *better* (even with the mackie as pres), so i'll be glad to make the recommendation to "upgrade* here. and besides, when's it bad to add more weapons to ones' arsenal--can't go wrong with a DMP3 and 603's? here's to hoping for an RNP for christmas. :D
 
Thanks for the detailed post, Wade. I didn't realize there would be much of a difference between the 2496 and 1010.


Two more questions:
Where can I buy a mic that allows returns. I bought my at3035 from Guitar Center (through the mail), and they stated that the law prevented them from allowing returns (they called it the spit law)?


What are the ramifications of running two PCI interfaces? Would that be a bit taxing on my machine, or is that a simple thing for the computer to handle?
 
Tillamook said:
Thanks, DJL.

Hmmm, here's another question;
What would you think about getting one SM81 instead of a pair of 603s or Oktava 012s?

Bill
Click to expand...

You're welcome... and IMO, the SM81 is a better mic than the 603S or MC-012... a pair of SM81's would be nice.

Also, I agree with Dot.... along with getting better mics (if you can) get a better preamp too. The M-Audio DMP-3 Dot made is a good suggestion.
 
Tillamook said:
Two more questions:
Where can I buy a mic that allows returns. I bought my at3035 from Guitar Center (through the mail), and they stated that the law prevented them from allowing returns (they called it the spit law)?
Click to expand...

Yes, some states have health codes regarding returns on headphones, ear plugs and mics. Most stores also have their own similar policies if the state doesn't. You can always ebay it and but it never hurts to have an extra LDC around for different voices.
 
reshp1 said:
Yes, some states have health codes regarding returns on headphones, ear plugs and mics.
Click to expand...
Are you sure? Every state has public phones... heck, if you think about it... if what you say was true, there wouldn't be store demo's... nor could sound companies rent out headphones, mics, etc... and don't forget about public school owned mics, headphones and etc.
 
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Well, I haven't looked up the law here in Michigan personally, but I have been told by several stores (including GC) that unless there is a defect, they legally can not accept microphone returns. I've also seen some posts here and other forums from people with similar experience. Yeah, I know it doesn't make sense when you look at the other things they ARE allowed to do. :mad:
 
<<Thanks for the detailed post, Wade. I didn't realize there would be much of a difference between the 2496 and 1010.>>

anytime! yes, there is a difference, and yes it's subtle.....but i heard it as soon as i started passing audio through my 1010.

<,I bought my at3035 from Guitar Center (through the mail), and they stated that the law prevented them from allowing returns (they called it the spit law)?>>

some stores don't allow returns on mics, some do. i can't understand why they don't, though....b/c you can try a mic out in the store just fine and one would reason that if there's sanitation issues with returning mics, that there'd be the same issues with trying them out. many of the online retailers, though, do let you return mics.

IMO, this "law" stuff is a load of crap to keep people from returning mics they don't like.

<<the SM81 is a better mic than the 603S or MC-012... a pair of SM81's would be nice>>

well, of course. but a single sm81 will run you just about what you can get both pairs of mc012's and 603's for. i'd love to have a set of SM81s, but it's just not in the cards right now....and since we're talking "on the cheap"......


<<What are the ramifications of running two PCI interfaces?>>

i find that, in my machine (P4-2.4 with 512mb), it's not a problem at all. MAudio says you can run 4 of their PCI cards in your machine, and i plan on adding another 1010 when i can find another used one (or two) for cheap. Shouldn't be much of a drain/strain at all if your machine is even remotely modern. i ran both of them in a P2-450 at one point, so it's not a problem.

You're much more likely to run into problems running all the tracks and plugins on playback/mixing than due to PCI bus overloading....


cheers,
wade
 
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