Where to buy Quantegy 456 tape???
- Thread starter MartyMcFly
- Start date
Any Quantegy tape is at least 3-5 years old.I have NOS Ampex and Quantegy that sheds like crazy.I'm using ATR Magnetics Master tape.It's bias compatible with 456.Had a problem with a couple of reels I bought last year.Contacted them,Mike Spitz,(the owner),called me back within 15 min.,and sent me two reels for every bad one I had bought.You can't get better customer service than that! I use .25,.5 and 1" tape-but you won't be paying the 25-30 bucks a reel for .5"tape that you are used to.
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Beck
Guest
Ok… just stop with the bullshit dude! As hard as we work around here to provide accurate information in an already perplexing environment for newcomers to analog we don’t need people like you deliberately muddying the waters as part of a sales pitch for ATR.
There is absolutely no Quantegy 456 tape on earth that sheds and age of tape makes no difference. Some of the best tape on the planet is Ampex branded Quantegy from the mid to late 90’s and later That’s 15 to 17-year old tape that’s as good as the day of manufacture. You’re only showing your ignorance. If you really do have Quantegy tape that sheds it’s not Quantegy. It’s old Ampex that someone has put in a Quantegy box.
ATR is simply unsuitable for many machines. It’s not a replacement for 456. People who know and use 456 want 456 and there is still plenty new old stock out there for those who know what dates of manufacture to buy… 1995 and newer.
You’re not doing ATR any favors. These posts from zero post count new members praising ATR have come up too often over the years for me to believe it’s nothing more than guerilla marketing from ATR. Personally I can’t wait until ATR goes belly up from my dealings with them and from posts like yours. There’s still room for two tape manufacturers to thrive in the world. I look forward to the day when ATR is not one of them and the old Ampex/Quantegy formulations can be reintroduced.
If you can’t sell your tape based on the truth alone you shouldn’t be selling it at all, and I simply can't trust it.
And by the way, ATR is NOT bias compatible with 456. I suggest you sit back and listen for a year or two before you presume to advise anyone on anything concerning analog tape.
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Beck
Guest
Yep, some of the best Quantegy stock you will find, made in 1998. I have quite a bit from the 90's, including several reels from 98. The ones I have are before they went to the 4-digit year designation same as you have there. Great stuff!
Geez Beck,I thought I was on Gearsl^t$ for a minute when I read your response.Sorry to pop your balloon-I've been servicing analog multitracks for over 25 years-all brands, all sizes up to 24 track 2" machines.If you want to pay the postage I will send you a reel of Quantegy that sheds like crazy.
Just because I'm a new poster doesn't mean you can dismiss/disrespect what I post.The reason I mentioned ATR was I can't get either good Ampex or Quantegy and I don't recommend my clients overpay for trash tape off Ebay.I prefer to buy US product.I'm not a shill for ATR.I had some problems with ATR tape that I bought last year and the company replaced them-2 reels for everyone I had bought. Just because you are a long time poster doesn't mean I have to take everything you say as gospel.
That's my response to your unprofessional rant.
Now,my professional response-what machines do not like the ATR stuff,and what tape would you recommend?
Just because I'm a new poster doesn't mean you can dismiss/disrespect what I post.The reason I mentioned ATR was I can't get either good Ampex or Quantegy and I don't recommend my clients overpay for trash tape off Ebay.I prefer to buy US product.I'm not a shill for ATR.I had some problems with ATR tape that I bought last year and the company replaced them-2 reels for everyone I had bought. Just because you are a long time poster doesn't mean I have to take everything you say as gospel.
That's my response to your unprofessional rant.
Now,my professional response-what machines do not like the ATR stuff,and what tape would you recommend?
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Beck
Guest
My replies to misinformation like you posted aren't meant to be professional, but rather memorable. However, since my formal education is in psychology there is a method to my madness. I’m not here to win any popularity contests.
Your info is not incorrect because you are a new member, but because it is incorrect. It should be dismissed because it’s completely wrong. That being said, being a new member does matter as well, because we don’t know what you really know or why you are here. Ever since ATR began making tape zero-post new members with no history here have popped up out of nowhere to hock that tape basically using the same phraseology and talking points that you did… and then they disappear.
As I said, there is no Quantegy branded 456 that has sticky-shed. And there is no Ampex branded 1995 and newer that has sticky-shed. The phenomenon is due to a specific type of binder that was used until the last few weeks of 1994. It is not possible for any backcoated Ampex/Quantegy tape from that point on to be sticky. On another thread you said most Maxell 35-90 does not shed. The fact is no Maxell 35-90/35-180 etc, will shed because it has a whale-oil based binder that is nothing at all like what American tape companies like 3M and Ampex used. Understanding specific tape formulations is no great mystery. It simply takes background and enough interest to learn the particulars. It is also incontrovertible… not open to debate. A given type of tape has certain properties. A given type of tape is either vulnerable to certain chemical breakdown or it is not. There are no surprises.
Good tape that is not affected by sticky-shed syndrome does not deteriorate. It can be 30 years old or more and be as good as the day it was manufactured. It is chemically stable and everyone who fancies themselves a tape expert should know that. Firstly tape is basically rust on a ribbon and rust is the final stable state of metal, so it will still be that way 100 years from when it was bound into a tape formulation. Secondly, if the binder is chemically stable it will not go through even the slightest changes from the day it was made. One of the most annoying descriptions I see on eBay concerning tape is the term, “Factory Fresh.” Factory fresh is fine if you’re talking about bread or bologna, but means nothing whatsoever for tape. If a tape is unopened and sealed in its original box it is new.
There is crap tape on eBay and there is excellent NOS tape on eBay. It is simply an outlet with both good, knowledgeable sellers and not so good, even deliberately dishonest sellers. The Analog Only Forum right here on HR is where you’ll find the most accurate information on the web on how to know what is what… and we want to keep it that way. Therefore, uninformed posts like your last one will be answered by me with a bit of… ummm… flair.
True, you don’t have to take what I say about tape as gospel… unless you want to be right. If you want to be just another uninformed voice on the web adding to the confusion that’s your choice and you’re perfectly free to do so. And me being a long time poster here has nothing to do with it. I was an expert in this field long before there was an Internet and I didn’t learn one damn thing I know from the Internet. However, the Internet is full of accurate information about tape and recording in general because I put it there.
Maybe you are and maybe you aren’t what you say you are. We don’t know yet. You’re just another anonymous new member whose first two posts had an agenda… pitching ATR tape. And you’re still going to insist you have shedding Quantegy, so yeah, you’re not helping yourself here in establishing yourself as a knowledgeable member because most people here know better. You’re on the wrong forum if you want to try that.
If you have a tape on a Quantegy reel that is shedding there are many possibilities. Here are a few…
1) it was used and unsealed when you acquired it and thus you cannot even know for sure what type of tape is on the reel. It could even be a different brand of tape altogether.
2) it’s an older but NOS Ampex tape on a Quantegy reel and/or box
3) you are being untruthful because you are here to hock ATR tape
4) Your Quantegy tape was contaminated because it was played on a machine that had previously run older sticky-shed tape and it was not thoroughly cleaned. Sticky-shed particles can be transferred to good tape and then that tape must be cleaned along with the machine.
5) You bought the tape from an unscrupulous seller who misrepresented the tape. This is especially easy to do if the tape is in the plastic library case because it is not sealed in an inner plastic bag. I personally avoid tape packaged that way for that reason and recommend buying NOS in the cardboard box with the inner sealed plastic bag around the reel, and for 7-inch reels, sealed on the outside of the box with plastic wrapper.
6) The tape path on your machine is worn with sharp edges that would cause any tape to shed more than normal.
There are other possibilities, but that being a new authentic Quantegy tape is not likely one of them.
What is the model number and date of manufacture of your tape? And I mean the full model number and date code on the sticker on the side of the box and the back of the reel. Both those numbers should match. You sending me an open tape cannot establish anything because it is open and as stated above it could be anything on that reel. You offering to do so is a bright move in trying to establish some cred here, whether you really have that reel and would really send it or not.
Your info is not incorrect because you are a new member, but because it is incorrect. It should be dismissed because it’s completely wrong. That being said, being a new member does matter as well, because we don’t know what you really know or why you are here. Ever since ATR began making tape zero-post new members with no history here have popped up out of nowhere to hock that tape basically using the same phraseology and talking points that you did… and then they disappear.
As I said, there is no Quantegy branded 456 that has sticky-shed. And there is no Ampex branded 1995 and newer that has sticky-shed. The phenomenon is due to a specific type of binder that was used until the last few weeks of 1994. It is not possible for any backcoated Ampex/Quantegy tape from that point on to be sticky. On another thread you said most Maxell 35-90 does not shed. The fact is no Maxell 35-90/35-180 etc, will shed because it has a whale-oil based binder that is nothing at all like what American tape companies like 3M and Ampex used. Understanding specific tape formulations is no great mystery. It simply takes background and enough interest to learn the particulars. It is also incontrovertible… not open to debate. A given type of tape has certain properties. A given type of tape is either vulnerable to certain chemical breakdown or it is not. There are no surprises.
Good tape that is not affected by sticky-shed syndrome does not deteriorate. It can be 30 years old or more and be as good as the day it was manufactured. It is chemically stable and everyone who fancies themselves a tape expert should know that. Firstly tape is basically rust on a ribbon and rust is the final stable state of metal, so it will still be that way 100 years from when it was bound into a tape formulation. Secondly, if the binder is chemically stable it will not go through even the slightest changes from the day it was made. One of the most annoying descriptions I see on eBay concerning tape is the term, “Factory Fresh.” Factory fresh is fine if you’re talking about bread or bologna, but means nothing whatsoever for tape. If a tape is unopened and sealed in its original box it is new.
There is crap tape on eBay and there is excellent NOS tape on eBay. It is simply an outlet with both good, knowledgeable sellers and not so good, even deliberately dishonest sellers. The Analog Only Forum right here on HR is where you’ll find the most accurate information on the web on how to know what is what… and we want to keep it that way. Therefore, uninformed posts like your last one will be answered by me with a bit of… ummm… flair.
True, you don’t have to take what I say about tape as gospel… unless you want to be right. If you want to be just another uninformed voice on the web adding to the confusion that’s your choice and you’re perfectly free to do so. And me being a long time poster here has nothing to do with it. I was an expert in this field long before there was an Internet and I didn’t learn one damn thing I know from the Internet. However, the Internet is full of accurate information about tape and recording in general because I put it there.
Maybe you are and maybe you aren’t what you say you are. We don’t know yet. You’re just another anonymous new member whose first two posts had an agenda… pitching ATR tape. And you’re still going to insist you have shedding Quantegy, so yeah, you’re not helping yourself here in establishing yourself as a knowledgeable member because most people here know better. You’re on the wrong forum if you want to try that.
If you have a tape on a Quantegy reel that is shedding there are many possibilities. Here are a few…
1) it was used and unsealed when you acquired it and thus you cannot even know for sure what type of tape is on the reel. It could even be a different brand of tape altogether.
2) it’s an older but NOS Ampex tape on a Quantegy reel and/or box
3) you are being untruthful because you are here to hock ATR tape
4) Your Quantegy tape was contaminated because it was played on a machine that had previously run older sticky-shed tape and it was not thoroughly cleaned. Sticky-shed particles can be transferred to good tape and then that tape must be cleaned along with the machine.
5) You bought the tape from an unscrupulous seller who misrepresented the tape. This is especially easy to do if the tape is in the plastic library case because it is not sealed in an inner plastic bag. I personally avoid tape packaged that way for that reason and recommend buying NOS in the cardboard box with the inner sealed plastic bag around the reel, and for 7-inch reels, sealed on the outside of the box with plastic wrapper.
6) The tape path on your machine is worn with sharp edges that would cause any tape to shed more than normal.
There are other possibilities, but that being a new authentic Quantegy tape is not likely one of them.
What is the model number and date of manufacture of your tape? And I mean the full model number and date code on the sticker on the side of the box and the back of the reel. Both those numbers should match. You sending me an open tape cannot establish anything because it is open and as stated above it could be anything on that reel. You offering to do so is a bright move in trying to establish some cred here, whether you really have that reel and would really send it or not.
Blue Jinn
Rider of the ARPocalypse
I don't want to start, or get into a flame war. But I'm with Beck here, it's perfectly legitimate to "dismiss" wrong information.
1. ATR is not bias compatible w/ 456, 365 Oe vs 320 Oe.
2. Quantegy does not suffer from sticky shed. (I've heard of slitting problems, that might account for oxide shedding, but not the gooey mess you get from the chemical breakdown.)
3. ATR is basically 2mil tape vs 1.5mil 406 or 456. Some machines, e.g. hte Fostex narrow guage 8 tracks, or the Teac 22-series, and most consumer decks recommend 1 mil tape. That doesn't mean it won't work, but it may not be ideal unless you specifically setup the machine for it. (Assuming it can be setup for it.) I don't have anything for or against ATR, but all of my machines are setup for 456, and I don't particular want to recalibrate for a higher bias and thicker tape.
It was not my intention to give out incorrect info.I was speaking from personal experience setting up "prosumer" and pro decks. I should have been more specific about which machines I have personal knowledge with.And I see after reading some of the threads that a lot of the readers are using older consumer decks to mixdown on,so my comments about "the tape in question" would not apply.
My clients request "that brand of tape" so I oblige them.If they request RMGI, then that's what I would use.I'm just tired of my clients bringing in "one pass"garbage 456.If I'm wrong,I'm wrong.But there are better ways to respond.I'm assuming this is a place for discussion -not personal attacks and belittling comments...
My clients request "that brand of tape" so I oblige them.If they request RMGI, then that's what I would use.I'm just tired of my clients bringing in "one pass"garbage 456.If I'm wrong,I'm wrong.But there are better ways to respond.I'm assuming this is a place for discussion -not personal attacks and belittling comments...
This is a great forum for discussion. However, there is so much confusion, lies and garbage about Quantegy/Ampex tape on the net. People are getting ripped off, some eBay sellers are purposely deceiving buyers, price of tape is sky-rocketing (good and bad tape) and good tape is becoming harder and harder to find. Beck has honestly educated thousands of people (including myself) on the internet regarding how to avoid/find bad/good tape. He has always answered my many questions regarding analog tape.
There are no hard feelings here, you posted wrong information (that Quantegy tape sheds like crazy) and you were corrected. After further discussion you agreed that you may be wrong. Just keep in mind that thousands of people read these posts (it's not just the people that respond that see it) and so a little misinformation can go a long way unfortunately.
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Beck
Guest
Discussions off board deprives others of the information and lessons learned from these exchanges, even when they seem less than cordial. Often they become more cordial. over time. The information gleaned even in the heat is valuable to a lot more people than the parties currently involved.
Anyway, the answer is no, I'm staying right here. If all you get out of these exchanges is psychobabble and jibberish then I can't help you and you can go someplace else. Just don't read them. Others do get something out of them because there's a lot here addressing many aspects from tape facts to forum life. If it were up to some people this forum would be dead. We wouldn't post anything at all. I'd say that's your problem. Take a vacation if you want peace and quiet.
All people like you do when you all you can see is psychobabble and jibberish is to announce to the world how undiscerning you are. For your own image maintenance, perhaps you should have sent this in a PM to me. In fact, if you were being sincere that's what you would have done. As it is, you've just added to the heat and joined the debate. Bravo!
And I suppose I could leave the forum altogether and spare the web from accurate information. I don't get paid for this. Whatever forum I choose to participate in its their privilege.
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Beck
Guest
Well, there ya go. People are bringing in tapes to your studio and you don’t know what they are no matter what the reel or the box says. So something good can come out of this for you after all.
I recommend studios and mastering houses have strict guidelines on what kind of tape they will agree to work with. And it’s not as simple as sticking with current tape makers. RMGI has had their problems and recalls, and as you said yourself, you had to send back new ATR because it shed. In my experience the tired and true tapes that have stood the test of time are the best bet.
It wasn’t uncommon in large studios in the past to mix up reels and tapes, especially when the tape was considered to be the same formulation, like Ampex 456 and Quantegy 456. This is where the myth of sticky-shed Quantegy started. It’s not Quantegy. It’s Ampex and possibly other brands of tape on a Quantegy reel. If you’ve ever seen a large tape vault in a large studio you’ll know what I mean. Some studios were better than others, but some… what a big mess. So eBay sellers started buying this stuff up at auctions and they don’t even know what they’ve got
First thing I would do in your position is to educate your clients. For one, nobody should be buying so-called one-pass tape. It’s not an option. We’ve done a good job here over the years of steering people away from one-pass and I happily watch as more and more one-pass eBay auctions run the duration with no takers. And also more and more NOS bad Ampex from the sticky-shed years goes the duration with no bids. That’s a good feeling to know we’re getting through.
Unfortunately there are still enough clueless people who have no idea what they’re doing when buying tape. To make things worse there is no shortage of self-proclaimed tape “experts” on eBay quite willing mislead to make a buck. There are a couple good ones, but most info I see from eBay sellers is just plain wrong. Some are lying and they know better. Others are just mistaken and are as clueless as their buyers.
Bad tape is not only a pain to work with, it’s bad for your machines due to increased wear. If you do work with questionable tape you can bake it to recover the audio temporarily and in that case I would charge an extra fee to recover what’s on the tape. All of this is covered in my sticky at the top of this forum, “The Sticky-Shed Help Thread.” The tapes to avoid as well as the safe ones are all there. Information and links for “Baking ” bad tape are there as well.
I’m not nearly the SOB I can seem at times. But I’m passionate about music quality and preservation, and a bit fatigued with guerilla marketers, trolls, people setting up alts to stir things up incognito and lots of other crap we’ve dealt with here over the years. I see you are still here. That’s good. Just keep in mind I’ve seen your posts almost verbatim, slamming Quantegy and pitching ATR over the last couple years. They’re always new members with no post count and I know some of them were from ATR reps. I can’t always react nicely to them. If it turns out to be coincidence and you stick around I’ll be the first to admit I could have been kinder in my tone. Yet, even in my worst moments I still manage to get the pertinent information across. I doubt you’ll ever look at a reel of tape someone brings in the same again. In that case my real mission is accomplished.
I’m in the process of setting up a blank tape-buying guide on my own site. A sticky in a web forum isn’t the best format, so I’m putting something together a little easier to follow. I will list tape sellers to avoid, including cassette sellers who are creating the perception there’s a tape shortage (which there is not) and they’re royally ripping us off. I’ll also be listing good sellers with reasonable prices and good product.
The list of good and bad tape formulations will be on a separate page and anyone is welcome to copy the HTML and make it a page on their own websites as long as it is not altered and I’m given credit for it. You can also link to it of course. It will go a long way in helping people’s clients start of on the right foot from the get-go when using tape, from tacking to mixdown.
I’ll post the link to it here on HR once it’s ready enough. After the initial reel-to-reel tape guide is complete it will still be a work in progress for quite some time.
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Beck
Guest
One more thing... for the record… I was not questioning wkrbee's background or intelligence and it was nothing personal because I don’t know who he/she is. My assessment of the nature of the post was that it was yet another ATR rep posing as a new member, which I’ve seen so many of I’ve lost count.
If that turns out not to be the case in this case, well then I was wrong, wasn’t I? And then I will stand corrected. I’d always rather be correct than appear correct and still be wrong, even if I have to get to that point of correctness the hard way and apologize to the offended party. I’m not made of stone. I don’t like to offend people or hurt feelings, but if I feel the forum is being trolled and toyed with I can be very tenacious, as many of you know.
I think I’ve laid out my reasoning as clearly as I can at this point. I also know my limitations, but unfortunately like everyone else they sneak up on me. If I had not been awake for 27 hours and dealing with difficult people all day I may have replied differently…. Or maybe not. Who knows?
Anyway, wkrbee, welcome to the forum. You're welcome here to share your experiences and speak your mind even if we disagree at times. Here's to better days ahead. Cheers!
If that turns out not to be the case in this case, well then I was wrong, wasn’t I? And then I will stand corrected. I’d always rather be correct than appear correct and still be wrong, even if I have to get to that point of correctness the hard way and apologize to the offended party. I’m not made of stone. I don’t like to offend people or hurt feelings, but if I feel the forum is being trolled and toyed with I can be very tenacious, as many of you know.
I think I’ve laid out my reasoning as clearly as I can at this point. I also know my limitations, but unfortunately like everyone else they sneak up on me. If I had not been awake for 27 hours and dealing with difficult people all day I may have replied differently…. Or maybe not. Who knows?
Anyway, wkrbee, welcome to the forum. You're welcome here to share your experiences and speak your mind even if we disagree at times. Here's to better days ahead. Cheers!
My observations were from the standpoint of servicing and alignment.The reason the 1" Quantegy I am using is having problems may be to the number of machines it has been on,with different wear patterns, and cumulative uneven wear/edge damage on the tape.This would be more a extreme usage issue than the average studio owner/musician would run across- Numbers on the tape are:456-573111 359701110404,on the box:456-573111 2003168.Is this 2003 tape? It was bought in 10/04.