Where should I set up my DAW...

[mindbuzz]

I'm moving in to a new apartment in March, 2007, and I'm not sure how to arrange the place to accommodate recording most efficiently. It's smaller than where I am now but in a better community. Basically, recording is my priority and everything else is sort of secondary, although I want to have an idea before moving in what areas to record in and what areas to live in. Or, how I'm going to live and record in the same spaces...

My first thought is to record in the bedroom. That seems most logical.

I think I'll put my bed in the Dining area...

 

[mindbuzz]

The Layout, revised

Okay, better plan. The Digital Audio Workstation and all the computer components will be situated in the Living Room somewhat as depicted in this new diagram here...

No one else is going to record here officially. This is my home setup. I figure the walk-in closet really is the best spot for vocal isolation and can double as a place to hang clothing too. (!)Absolutely brilliant. The clothes will provide a pretty decent amount of wave dampening themselves. This, along with the Aurlex I have and cushioning the place with additional padding (sleeping bags and pillows). I'll snake cables for a remote display monitor, pre-, and microphone through the bedroom back to the DAW and use a Frontier Tranzport.

Everything else audio-related (since I have no TV) will be the center piece in the living room -- instruments, mics, amps, stands. I can route mics and cables anywhere in the house from that central location too...

 

[Ethan Winer]

The Digital Audio Workstation and all the computer components will be situated in the Living Room somewhat as depicted in this new diagram here

Closer, but still not perfect. I'd face to the left, toward the glass, which puts the more of the living room and dining room behind you. The wall behind you is generally the biggest source of bass peaks and nulls, so the farther away you can get the better. See this article on my company's site for more about this:

http://www.realtraps.com/art_room-setup.htm

--Ethan

 

[mindbuzz]

Much better. Thank you!

How does this look?

Thanks for the input! That makes perfect sense. I really want to get the best sound possible out of my recordings. And being not-so-much the acoustics genius, I read about these things all the time, but when it comes to realtime application, I've never actually had the means to position things in precise measured places or treat walls in mathematical ways. Since the brochure diagram doesn't have measures, I can't really do the math until I move in. As far as sound treatment, I'll have to measure for first reflections and 38% placement. Then, once I get Internet again, hopefully, I can post some results. Really, with so many variables, scientific sound treatment can really make my head spin, but I can crunch at least some numbers.

Well, basically, looking at the way things are here, I have FOUR main recording positions:

1. Mixing Desk
2. Keyboard Workstation
3. Papasan Chair
4. Sofa

Probably in that order. And TWO listening/monitoring positions:

1. Mixing Desk (while working)
2. Papasan Chair (while reviewing rough and final masters)

I use headphones a lot while mixing at home. It doesn't bother the neighbors, and the final results are usually not bad. I also have a pair of I-trigues with a sub hooked up to my PC, and the result is a whole lot bassier than that of the linearly flat response of the BX5a's.

The Nady ribbon mic is in the bathroom just as a joke because I don't like how it sounds. It'll probably sit in the bedroom around the corner from the mixer most of the time. I use the stereo pair of small diaphragm condensers for room capture (ORTF) at a distance and noise cancellation (XY) from close range. They'll probably usually point down about 45 degrees over the papasan at a cross-cancel angle. I just threw the ORTF idea in there for thought. Hopefully there will be enough space for a dining room table...

Natural reflections aren't all bad. Especially for roomy guitar sounds.

 

[mindbuzz]

Sound treatment and mic placement.

First of all, I'd like to say, and I quote,

...Put another way, listening to music in a Reflection Free Zone is similar to listening with headphones - musical instruments sound clearer, and their placement in the stereo field is much better defined.

Did I say headphones? I distinctly remember saying headphones...

Anyway, so I got the dimensions of the room! I am going to place the Bx5a stereo monitors 5 feet away from my head at ear level. My ear level is at about four feet, and I think the ceiling will be nine, so an offset of one or two inches won't make any difference. Placement of the nearfield monitors will be almost right against the walls. First side reflection from the Bx5a-to-my-right will most likely bounce into the kitchen, while the Bx5a-to-my-left will first reflect sideways into the bedroom with the door open or against the door if it's closed.

Now I have two questions --

1.) Where should I place sound treatment?

I have two slabs of 2'x4' Aur-a-lex foam and one low-end node reducing (LENR) bass trap. The two slabs I can staple to the ceiling between the Bx5a's and listening position one. Not sure where to put a bass trap or if I need any how many I might need, etc., but since I already have one, I can use it somewhere...

The papasan will be right up near the living room window. I'm less concerned about treating that position for monitoring and mastering, but if it's good to mix monitor from that position or there's a convenient way to get that to work, I'll do that too.

2.) Where's my best microphone placement?

With my instrument stands in the corner, I can pretty much record anywhere I feel inspired to sit or stand comfortably and play based on what my ears prefer, but mathematically... what could be an ideal spot for a dynamic cardioid or a cardioid condenser with this set up?

Many thanks to anyone who responds.

 

[pandamonk]

I've drawn up what I think you should do. Unfortunately you only have 1 floor-ceiling corner, so you will have to install bass traps at wall-ceiling corners.

I'd hang a curtain behind the sofa I've shown just to add a bit of hi mid-hi freq absorption, 2" broadband in side and ceiling 1st reflection points, and 4" behind the door, and top right corner of living room(which will act as a bass trap with the space behind it).

With microphone placement, place it where it sounds good. Experiment.

I'd suggest selling the auralex if you can, or placing the 4x2 stuff in the first reflection points and the lernd maybe above your window, if possible. I'd suggest buying some 4x2x2" rigid fiberglass for your treatment, and building your own panels.

Edit: Just read in another thread that you're using the auralex in your vocal booth. I'd suggesting keeping the auralex in there, and building rigid fiberglass panels for your control/living room.

 

[Ethan Winer]

I've drawn up what I think you should do.

Excellent. If I had three thumbs they'd all be upright.

--Ethan

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Excellent. If I had three thumbs they'd all be upright.

Ditto.

 

[mindbuzz]

Okay, I drew it backward. Sorry. Thanks Panda.


I'm actually glad I get to face the window. That's cool. And that looks exactly like my couch! Only too big and it has little brownish gold dots. The couch is only about 5'6" in length, so the kitchen will be more accessible from the front door than depicted in your diagram too.

Dropping a thick curtain there is a fabulous idea, seriously. Not sure how much that will cost though.

Bass trap above the window. Got it. That's what I was going to do, only in the dining room since I had everything backward.

I see 5 fiberglass traps -- 3 first reflections, 1 (doubled up) behind the front door, and 1 to cover up the storage closet door near the bedroom entry. A set of 6 of those will cost about $74. I can do that. A little fabric and some staples. Voila.

Ergonomically, I'll need the keyboard closer to the desk. I have a pair of flatscreen dual computer mon's that sit on the desk. The keyboard slides out from underneath and the tower sits on the ground. I think I'd like to place the keyboard on the table (even though the length of the table is only about 4 ft. and the Roland is 4'7") in front of the flatscreens and set the mixer and turntable on both sides. I'm going to have to buy some super long cables for the vx booth... of course I have other gear too.

The door to the deck I'll have to re-hinge to swing out instead of in.
It looks like it's going to knock over the nearfield stand.

Wow. I am totally stoked about this.

Okay, well, a few questions...

- What is all that stuff in the bedroom?
- Why is the bed moving off the wall?
- And what is a floor ceiling corner?

 

[pandamonk]

Okay, well, a few questions...

- What is all that stuff in the bedroom?
- Why is the bed moving off the wall?
- And what is a floor ceiling corner?

It's a drum kit, and i suggested moving the bed when you're recording drums, if you're gonna, to give more room, lol.

And a floor-ceiling corner is one between a floor and a ceiling like the pic.

Btw, there is 5 panels shown, but I'd suggest a couple/few more bass traps.

Ohh and i suggested putting the mixer (DM1000 i think) on the desk, so that you don't need to move out of the mixing sweet spot to mix. It'd be better to move to play, than to mix.

Ohh and make sure it's a heavy curtain with lots of ripples.

 

[pandamonk]

Excellent. If I had three thumbs they'd all be upright.

--Ethan

Ditto.

Thanks guys, just telling them what you guys have taught me.

 

[mindbuzz]

I went to Lowe's hardware store. They didn't have 1/4"x4"x2' pinewood for the frames for my absorbing panels (or any thin pinewood frames in the right sizes for that matter) so I went with poplar wood. A little more expensive. The measurements aren't true measures, just approximations. So since the fiberglass is 2'x4', the wood won't make a perfectly-cut connection at each corner. The frame will have gaps at the corners between the L-brackets. I'm using cheapo 2" L-brackets to fasten the framework together. The 703 fiberglass is rather light weight, and that's what I'm counting on because these frames won't be super sturdy at all. Just strong enough to hold the absorbsion material in place and hang it from the walls / ceiling / doors... wherever they need to go. Cost incl. tax = a little more than $71.

I'm using 1/4"x4"x4' and 1/4"x4"x2' to allow for a two inch gap behind the fiberglass. That way the panels can act as bass traps as well. I was reading about how the gap will slow the velocity of the longer, low-end waves, whereas treatment that's flush against the wall won't work. Right?

Fabric, I found some decent, breathable cotton fabric that cost me only $1.39/yd. At 44" in width, I bought five 5' sections for the five traps I'm supposed to build. Total incl. tax = about $17.

3M Super 77 spray-on adhesive = 1 can = $16.

The case of 6 rigid fiberglass 2"x2'x4' panels incl. shipping cost me about $110.

Total for the job -- four 2" deep panels and one doubled up 4" deep panel = somewhere between $214 and $220.

The curtain, I can't afford to put together yet. As luck would have it, I can get a curtain rod for free though. So that will happen in the near future when I can scrap together a little cash after my next paycheck to buy sections of curtain and some hooks.

A decent, acoustically-treated control room = priceless.

 

[pandamonk]

It's good to hear it's all go in you're studio. Hope it all works out well for you. Thanks for letting us know, and post some pics once your done.

 

[mindbuzz]

Studio Photos!!!

I thought about posting this in the "let me see your studio" thread, but then I thought, this thread is more relavent. So maybe I'll post these photos here for now, and when I get fully set up, I can come back sometime and post a detailed descriptive thing about all my gear later.

Apologies if some of these pix are larger than your screen. My time is limited, and I'm accessing Internet from my old place... (edit: check that, I found a quick way to resize them now.)

So that's what I have so far. I have a traveler rod and hooks for the curtain, but I'll need about six curtain panels to span the width of the room, and that will be costly. Also, the couch sits right where the curtain should drop, so I'm not sure dropping a curtain there is very realistic. People need places to sit and room to walk, you know? I don't know, maybe I really should do the curtain...

Also, I couldn't hang a 703 panel from the ceiling because of the fan. Bass traps in the wall ceiling corners are 1'x2', and I used the other half of that cut to make a 1'x4' for the wall space between the bedroom and the dining room, as you can see, here:

Check out the peg board. Cool, eh? The place sounds amazing despite the minor greivances caused by the ceiling fan, etc. Loads and loads better than my old place, for sure. Since these photos, I've done a lot of work plugging everything in. I even mixed a beat and wrote an ambient tune with no lyric or vocals the other day. The room still has soft spots and places where the bass drops. But simply using the 38% rule produces an amazing difference in fidelity.

Here's what the sweet spot looks like, kind of: (photo was taken standing, not sitting, a little farther back behind the sweet spot...)

After I took this photo, I pushed the flatscreen dual displays even farther off to the edges of the desk to allow as clear a path as possible from my ears at the sweet spot to the bx5a's.

After all the setting up, I still had one remaining fully-contructed panel because I couldn't hang it from the ceiling, like I said. So I just dropped it against the back of the mixing desk, if you look closely at the bottom of this photo, you can see it sitting there:

I also have one more slab of rigid 703 owen corning fiberglass that I didn't cut or set in a frame because I couldn't double up that pad behind the entryway door (not enough space).

Instead of using the walk-in closet for vocals, I'm thinking maybe I should just purchase one of those V-shaped vocal isolation contraptions from Ethan Winer. That would work great in the bedroom. What do you think... Ethan?

Basically, I know it's not a perfect room. There's no such thing. Right? But if there's anything I can do to make this place sound better, please, shout out.

Thanks!

 

[pandamonk]

Looking good, but it seems you've got you video monitors infront of your listening monitors. Maybe bring the listening monitors closer to the desk and further apart, with you're video monitors together.

And like i said before, you'd be better off having your mixer on the table so your sitting in a good mixing position when mixing. It doesn't matter how it sounds when your playing, so the keys could be to the side.

And you have the bass traps in the wall/wall/ceiling corner, which is good, but you could also place more in the wall/ceiling(placed like the auralex) corners on the side walls/ceiling, or back wall/ceiling in the dinning area

Thanks for posting the pics. Good to see it

 

[pandamonk]

Also you could buy that off Ethan, or build your own with the last slab of 703.

And the panel you have behind your mixing desk, you could place at the dining room wall/ceiling point.

 

[mindbuzz]

ok I'm writing from my cel so this may not cover everything. the panel behind the desk, that's what I was thinking too. hang it in the dining room. the monitors aren't actually being blocked. i backed up from the real sitting position enough to get the full keyboard in the photo. I'll take a better shot so you can see it (plus I pushed the flat Screens farther apart). despite what you said about the mixer on the desk I don't mix like that. i use the mouse. space is tight ergonomically.

 

[pandamonk]

ok I'm writing from my cel so this may not cover everything. the panel behind the desk, that's what I was thinking too. hang it in the dining room. the monitors aren't actually being blocked. i backed up from the real sitting position enough to get the full keyboard in the photo. I'll take a better shot so you can see it (plus I pushed the flat Screens farther apart). despite what you said about the mixer on the desk I don't mix like that. i use the mouse. space is tight ergonomically.

It'd be much easier to use the flying faders etc on the mixing desk as a control surface.

It seems that the monitors are being blocked by the screens a bit, even if it isn't a good angle. I duno, I'll let someone else comment.

 

[mindbuzz]

I understand what you're saying about the mixer. But the keyboard is too large to be off to the side. there'd be no room to walk. i'll draw up some diagrams here in a minute and go to the library to post pix. also, how does Ethan's portable vocal booth attach to the mic stand?

 

[gummblefish]

Looking very nice indeed. Keep it up!