Where in the signal chain shall I spend my cash?

J

joemintz

New member
I'm having a ton of trouble deciding where I'm going to get the best bang for my buck. Will a nice mic pre-amp improve my sound the most? More microphones? More acoustical treatment? A bigger room? A better monitoring system?

I, for one, haven't much of a clue.

This is what I've got:
Gefell M71
AKG C414
2 SM57s
AKG D112
Dos Oktava MK012s (ala the Sound Room)
Beta 58
AKG C460b
Mbox
64 sq ft. of melamine foam and 4 RealTraps MiniTraps in the mixing room
4 Fiberboard Baffles (1")
RNC
80's Lexicon 'Verb box
Old, weird Urei compressor
M-Audio BX8 Monitors

This is what I was thinking of:
More foam, for another room
More bass traps, for another room
Great River MP2NV
Digi 002 Rack
2 SM81s
Beyer M160
Sennheiser MD421
Electrovoice RE20 or Shure SM7
M-Audio Sub

Am I doing a good job choosing what to buy, or should I focus more on a different area? I understand that upgrading earlier in the signal chain ought to net the best results, but I don't know how far along I am at any given point in the chain well enough to decide what needs upgrades. Thanks for your help.
 
Pres, monitors and converters, in that order. Guess it depends on how much you plan to spend as to how far you'd get through the list.
 
Whichever you feel is your weakest area.

Have no idea what kind of mic pres, converters or accoustic / room situation you're currently working with, so any recommendations one of us might make will be no more than a wild, random guess.

Looks like you have nice mics, though. Monitors are iffy, depending on how they work for you.
 
where in the signal chain sh'ld U spend your $$....

Focus first on the signal.

Of the utmost importance is to get it just right (the performance) during tracking- - - paying attention to your gain levels, dynamics & tone.
Seek to obtain the maximum perf from the gear you presently own when tracking by utilizing diff mic positions, vocal techniques, unit settings, baffle arrangement, etc..Play your mixes on various music formats such as, car c/d, home stereo, walkman, IPOD, etc to determine if your rec'ding translates the same on each audio format. If not, you may need to upgrade your monitoring system to properly judge your mixes unless you learn how to "train" your ears
to your present monitors to understand it's weak and strong spots so you can make the proper adjmts.
Mic's and pre's come in a wide variety of shapes,colors,features, characteristics, etc. Some will sing the praises of "THIS", others "THAT" whatever but your final decision s/b based on 1st your budget then auditioning each unit that provides the optimal perf suited for your needs. This can be accomplished by ch'ing out your local gear retailer or listening to the MANY talented artists who post thier songs in the MP3 forum or @ RecProj and asking what gear was used to achieve their results. You'll be surprised at the many who've created top-notch productions using the most minimalist of gear!

Yo' joemintz, upgrading and purchasing opinions are varied with most members offering solid suggestions, however those 2 digits each located on the left and right side of your chrome-dome s/b your final judge.

Peace
Q.rM
 
It also might help if you describe what you think you're not getting as far as results go, and what kind of music, as that might help some determine if your mics are good for what you want to do. As Chessrock said, everything would be a pretty wild guess at this point, without more info. My wild guess would be that if the Mbox is your only pre, that might be a good area to concentrate on.
 
I don't think it is a wild or random guess to say he needs better pres than the M-Box--especially with the decent mics he already has and the fact that he has already gone a long way toward treating his room.
 
I just assumed that his pres and converters were the MBox stuff, since he didn't list anything else. I stand by my earlier thought: pres, monitors and converters, in that order. Actually, it could be pres, converters and then monitors.
 
Update

The Mbox does indeed have my only pres. The 002 is for sure, as I need more inputs and I'm pretty used to Pro Tools at this point (and I like being able to take sessions back and forth between places around town). Since those pres are supposedly slightly worse than those in the Mbox, the Great River seems like a must.

I'm going to be recording some pretty varied stuff. It's all primarily for me, though I'll be recording friends and things too. I've written one song that's a string quartet plus double bass and voice, I do a capella arrangements, I do rock-ish tunes, and I love British music all around (Muse, Radiohead, Queen, the Beatles).

I'd like to treat another room so I can have a control room/live room setup. Thus the bass traps/foam. No large rooms available, I'm afraid.

Just out of curiosity, how well to the converters on the 002 stack up to other companies' offerings?
 
Given your preamp situation, that seems like the best first purchase to me. However, hot on its heels I would seriously consider getting a better set of monitors so you can really hear what those Great River pres and that Geffel are going to do:D The m-Audio's may sound pretty good to you right now, but I guarantee that once you get a nicer set, it will only take 10 or 20 minutes to forget all about your old ones:D
 
I understand that upgrading earlier in the signal chain ought to net the best results, but I don't know how far along I am at any given point in the chain well enough to decide what needs upgrades.
Click to expand...

Just thought I'd toss in a heads-up about the Beyer M160. If you do get a ribbon mic you'll really need a Great River pre or its equivelant to handle the huge gain (w/low noise) the mic needs. That said, the M160 is a work of art, IMO.

Tim
 
First, I won't bash your monitors. The issue isn't whether they sound as good as some Genelecs or whatever. The issue is- can you mix with them? You can. You're right, though, you need the SBX subwoofer. It will change your acoustic world. I have no issue with the 002, I use it also, and I'm assuming your computer is up to the challenge. You can always add more mics, but yours aren't too bad at all. I do think, however that a pair of better small diaphragms would help-KM184, Josephson C42, Earthworks, even a pair of C451's or SM81's will do things that the Oktavas won't.
The preamp situation is pretty dire, and I think is your first priority. Great River, Avalon, Pendulum, DW Fearn, Martech, what the hell? I settled on Avalon AD2022 for clean, and someday I'll be able to afford a really badass colored pre. In the meantime, the Joemeek twinQ works for me. Almost any real preamp would be a step up, including RNP, Grace 101, Toft ATC-2, M Audio Tampa, and a host of other mid-priced pres and channel strips. An auxiliary 8 channel pre with ADAT out would be good as an adjunct too, such as M Audio Octane, just to take your 002 to 16 tracks.
As far as convertors go, they are important, and I like the Lucid AD9624, but the 002 will be a convertor upgrade frpom where you are now. If I was you, I'd get a pair of Josephsons, an SBX, the Octane, and whatever pre works for you. If I've only got one kickass pre, I prefer more neutral than the Great River. AD2022 has been very good to me, but I record more acoustic and classical than rock. -Richie
 
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