what's your signal chain with actual rack?

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A1A2

A1A2

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ok, this might be a dummy question...but, here it goes:

If you are recording/storing tracks on your PC/Mac, besides using the plug-ins on your comp, do you use any outboard effects? If you do, where do they go in your signal chain?
I have always heard, "record dry, add effects later", if that's the case, do you send your recorded tracks back to analog, thru effects processor, and convert it back to digital on your comp's sequencer? This sounds like too much convertion to me, and may cause a great degrading in sound quality.
So, how do you do it? or do you record on a DAT machine first, mix on an actual mixer, add all the effects, and send them to your comp? There are many posibilities that I can think of, but none of them sound effective enough, so, please share your signal chains with me. thanks

AL
 
I record all stuff dry...then add effects...

I don't own any outboard gear...too expensive for me

I believe of using effects on the comp rather than sending the signal around...limiting the use of a/d and d/a converters the signal goes through keeps a clean signal
 
I'll bite. When I'm When I'm recording, I usually track microphone to preamp (almost always an outboard unit) to ADAT, flat, dry and rarely compressed. I try to get the sound to my likeing by moving the mics until it sounds right to me. I may also change mic pre's for a color change and only EQ on the way to tape as a last resort.
I then send it all to computer for editing only, not mixing, although I will do dynamic (read volume/panning envelopes) editing which gives me practicly an automated mix to a degree.
Then I send the edited tracks back to my ADATs (soon to become an HD24 :D ) to be mixed thru my analog StudioMaster console using outboard compression and effects down to either a Sony DAT recorder at 16 bit/44.1KHz or back to the computer as two tracks at 24 bit/48KHz where I'll do any further tweaking at the higher resolution before sample rate converting and dithering down to 16/44.1. How's that?
 
ok, to sound more newbish, i will throw in a few more questions:

TrackRat,
1)are adat and dat the same thing, but built by different company?
2)WHat does a dat machine do exactually? Record and playback in their own medium, digital tap?
3)what's the point of using a dat machine when you can record everything all in a comp? maybe the old "tape" warmth to the sound??
4) from what you said, you could have done recording/mixing without a comp, correct?
5) Could I do what you do with a reel to reel tape machine? good or bad idea compare to just do it all in my pc?
 
DAT and ADAT are kind of the same thing. That is they're both Digital Audio Tape. DATs are generally two track machines (I won't get into time code stripes) that mostly record at 16 bits/ 44.1 or 48KHz although there are machines out now that will do 24 bits. These are built by all kinds of folks, Sony (mine), Panasonic, Tascam, Fostex, etc.
ADATs on the other hand, made for the most part by Alesis and a few other companies, are 8 track digital recorders with a resolution of 16 or 20 bits, depending on the vintage of the machine, and 44.1 or 48 KHz. There are a lot of other devices out there that use Alesis Lightpipe digital optical format to move 8 tracks of audio at a time.
As far as mixing to DAT, no tape warmth there, just convienience. If I don't plan on any further processing, I can mix to the DAT and it's 16/44.1 ready for CD. If I plan on doing any "mastering"(I don't want to hear it from anybody), that's when I'll mix to the computer at 24 bits. The extra resolution allows tweaking of the song to sound a little better.
I can and have and do record directly to the computer and mix there as well, I just prefer the ADATs when tracking a full band as it's more stable than a computer. There's nothing better than playing your ass off with three of your commrads, tuned into the cosmic radio and you think your recording a perfect take that you could never repeat, and you look at the computer monitor and see the little red "DROPOUT" at the bottom of the screen. ADATs won't do that. Not in my experience anyway.
Absolutly you can do the majority of what I can do with a reel to reel. The down side would be limited track count (to whatever the track count is of your machine) and the tape floor noise that you don't have with digital tape or hard drive. Also editing in multi track would be a problem, but you could master into your computer. Given the choice of a 1" or smaller analog multi track or digital system, be it ADAT,TASCAM, computer or any of the many HD systems out there, I'd take the digital system. No noise and easy editing. YMMV.
 
Trackrat:

Thanks, after your explainations, I think I have a better understanding of how adat/dat machines work now. If I wanna do all the tracking on my PC, I don't think I would need an adat/dat machine. I like being able to cut/paste and play around before mixing.
Now, back to the original question. Is there another way to record on a PC and use outboard effects without so many a/d, d/a conversions?
 
Not unless you go with an analog processor, and even then you are going to go through some extra a/d and d/a conversion on the way out of the computer and again back in to the computer.

There are a few companies out there . . . TC Electronics and someone else . . . who make units that offer the best of both worlds. Basically, they offer reverbs and a few other basic effects. The catch is that it is pretty expensive, and the effects are contained on their own (totally separate) PCI slot in your computer.

So basically it saves on processing power, and delivers effects of much higher quality than software plugins (comparable and better quality, in fact, than many outboard effects). And you can use it like a software plugin, without having to do any more a/d or d/a conversions.
 
chessrock:

Thanks for the info, I never thought of hardware plug-ins that does all the effects procesing digitally. So, do they work just like a software plug-in where I can do real time effects and be able to control it with my PC? This is important when it comes to mixing, you know...
Now, these all take up a PCI slot, correct? damn, I am running short on PIC slots....are there mobos that provide more PCI slots? or I can hook them up with the SPDF ins on my soundcard (Audiophile2496)?
And, since this is all new to me, can you name a few more brands that make this digital processors? or keywords that I can look up online? I don't even know what they are called exactually.

Thanks alot for the info.
 
I have my J-Station plugged into the S/PDIF of my Delta Audiophile.....i then have either my VC3Q's (has compression onboard) straight to the Audiophile or i go into a Delta DMP2 into a Behringer Autocom Pro Compressor into the Audiophile......

everything as far as processing is done with plugins........
 
mics>gates>compression>soundcraft>Adat>compression>effects>PC.

But it always changes for me depending what instrument.
 
Gidge:

by J-station, did you mean the guitar direct-in or that Boss JamStation? So, it sounds like you are recording with effects, am I right?


MiXit-G:
it sounds like you are mixing with an actual mixer, right? What do you do with the tracks after you send them to you PC then? Final editing??
 
http://www.johnson-amp.com/jstation.htm

this beautiful sonofabitch is a J-Station.....its basically like a Pod....but it has S/pdif so i can keep it hooked up to my soundcard and keep the analog inputs free.....


only from the J-Station do i record effects...but then do record a track clean and a track with effects with the same take (yes, J-Station can do that) so i have the option of using the clean or effects track.....

with everything else, just compression.......
 
just a thought, since the Audiophile has S/PDIF outs, doesn't that mean I can send a track out thru that, and have go thru a digital processor then back thru S/PDIF in? I just thought that would be nice to have signal processed digitally thru S/PDIF instead of using up a PCI slot. Is that doable?
 
I really only do this with Drums and somtimes otherstuff like stuff i record to tape for analog effect or my sp-808 but otherwise straight to PC via my Soundcraft mixer then once i have all the tracks in cubase ie: drummix,guitar,bass,vocals etc i mix them to a final and burn baby burn ,i love that bit. :D
 
J-Station rocks for bass.....thats all ive used for bass lately except for experimenting with a Joe Meek VC3Q....it has at least 4 bass amp models that sound as good as the Bass pod.....the original had 3 models, the last patch upgrade i got added another....there may be more.....

at $150, you get a guitar AND bass modeler, skipping a DI box.....great effects including compressor which is nice to have for recording bass......

A1A2 i dont fully understand your question....you cant send a single track (that i know of) thru the S/PDIF out...but you can send the whole mix out, thru a processor, and back in the S/PDIF....dont know what that has to do with a pci slot...the audiophile still will use a pci slot whether you use analog or digital inputs.....i process with plugins anyway......
 
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