apl
Stand Up Comity
Just for clarity, I wouldn't try to set intonation by ear now that I have a strobe. I did that like twenty some years ago.
Yeah, good point about perfect fifths.
Just for clarity, I wouldn't try to set intonation by ear now that I have a strobe. I did that like twenty some years ago.
Yeah, good point about perfect fifths.
T
tomteriffic
New member
Older high-ratio Grovers and a Korg DT-1 LED jobbie
I want a Peterson though.
I want a Peterson though.
muttley600
Banned
Strobe would be the best of the software/electronic tuners yes. The main problem with many of the electronic tuners is they only accurate to around 3 cents or so. I have three or four kicking around that I've tested and they vary. If you have one thats three cents sharp and I have one thats three cents flat thats six cents that we are out if we are in the same band. Thats creeping into the region of the average hearing detection range.
That said there is nothing wrong with them as such as long as the whole band uses the same one. I think it's more important to get hold of the idea of taking one note and the whole band tuning to that and learning how to temper tune properly. It does depend a lot on what your tolerance level is.
With a tuning fork once it is calibrated thats it. Job done. If you have a tuner that is dead on thats fine but you may find only one of the notes is true.
For accurate workshop stuff I have a strobe and a tuning fork that is dead on 440. I rarely need that sort of accuracy. I have a tuner I know is only out by about one cent on 440 that I use for live work.
apl
Stand Up Comity
Where do you find a calibrated tuning fork?
muttley600
Banned
scientific and medical suppliers do them. So do piano tuners or if you have a strobe tuner you can calibrate one yourself.
The frequency of a tuning fork depends on several things. The mass of the material and it's stiffness. The stiffness is constant through the material so by altering the mass or removing material (evenly from both prongs is best) You raise the pitch.
It's much the same as some guitar builders do when you see that iconic picture of the bespectacled craftsman taping the soundboard as he works on it. As you remove material you alter the fundamental frequency.
No comment on the validity of the image, but the science works..
apl
Stand Up Comity
scientific and medical suppliers do them. So do piano tuners or if you have a strobe tuner you can calibrate one yourself.
The frequency of a tuning fork depends on several things. The mass of the material and it's stiffness. The stiffness is constant through the material so by altering the mass or removing material (evenly from both prongs is best) You raise the pitch.
It's much the same as some guitar builders do when you see that iconic picture of the bespectacled craftsman taping the soundboard as he works on it. As you remove material you alter the fundamental frequency.
No comment on the validity of the image, but the science works..
LOL. How do you know your tuner's calibrated? I've got Strobosoft, which gives different answers depending on the interface, a POD XTLive, a Digitech stompbox, a Radio Shack tuner, and a little metronome that does 440. Plus a couple of electronic keyboards.
The one I trust the most is the Strobosoft with the Focusrite Saffire because I'd expect it's got the best clock.
muttley600
Banned
LOL,
There are four common methods of calibrating frequency critical equipment. quartz crystal oscillators, the rubidium gas cell, the cesium atomic beam standard and the hydrogen maser. I have experience of two of them. Needless to say for our purposes we take the word of the person or company that supplies the equipment we use.
We really, really don't need that much accuracy to intonate or tune our guitars. It is handy when your are doing research on acoustic behavoir of materials..
apl
Stand Up Comity
LOL,
There are four common methods of calibrating frequency critical equipment. quartz crystal oscillators, the rubidium gas cell, the cesium atomic beam standard and the hydrogen maser. I have experience of two of them. Needless to say for our purposes we take the word of the person or company that supplies the equipment we use.
We really, really don't need that much accuracy to intonate or tune our guitars. It is handy when your are doing research on acoustic behavoir of materials..
I use calibrated mics, hammers, acceleromters, and signal analyzers for a living. I come home and ask myself, "How do I know...?"
That's why I got an "atomic" clock. Because when someone asks, "What time is it?" there's only one right answer.
apl
Stand Up Comity
I've got several ways to measure frequency at home, but no way to check their accuracy. So, yeah, I was really wondering where I could get a calibrated tuning fork.
But something in your post triggered the thought that maybe I could use 60Hz hum as a reference.
G
ggunn
Crystal Flavolian
scientific and medical suppliers do them. So do piano tuners or if you have a strobe tuner you can calibrate one yourself.
The frequency of a tuning fork depends on several things. The mass of the material and it's stiffness. The stiffness is constant through the material so by altering the mass or removing material (evenly from both prongs is best) You raise the pitch.
It's much the same as some guitar builders do when you see that iconic picture of the bespectacled craftsman taping the soundboard as he works on it. As you remove material you alter the fundamental frequency.
No comment on the validity of the image, but the science works..
What about temperature? The frequency of a tuning fork depends on the length of the tines, doesn't it? That changes with temperature.
apl
Stand Up Comity
Right, that's pretty accurate. My strobe is a virtual strobe from Peterson called StroboSoft and I'm pretty sure it relies on some clock on the soundcard for the time base.
I wonder if I can make something hum when I want it to.
muttley600
Banned
Yes temperature does have an influence of a sort. More of a problem is the speed of sound in air. The speed of sound and frequency in air and some gases can be effected by temperature. Also by volumetric pressure The speed of sound in solids is pretty much independent of frequency and amplitude. Thats what allows us to fine tune them by removing mass while keeping the same stiffness. The length of the tines isn't going to change much over the temp range we use them in.
For the tuning fork or soundboard of an instrument we can pretty much ignore changes in temp. Any difference caused by a temp change of a few degrees is going to be insignificant and dwarfed by the influence of the air as the sound wave travels to our ears. Even then not really a problem in most practical situations. It can be a problem for brass and woodwind players whose pitch frequency relies on moving a small column of air inside the instrument. It's no more of a problem that us guitar players whose strings stretch as the temp changes. We've all done those gigs..
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muttley600
Banned
Right, that's pretty accurate. My strobe is a virtual strobe from Peterson called StroboSoft and I'm pretty sure it relies on some clock on the soundcard for the time base.
I wonder if I can make something hum when I want it to.
My guess is that your strobosoft is as accurate as you'll ever need. I use it anytime I need a dead on reference.
EDIT: Scratch that, they say it does indeed use your soundcard clock. So it would depend on how accurate that is?? My laptop card is rubbish. I'm pretty sure my main PC card is up to the task though but I'm going to check it out..
This is their take on calibration.
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apl
Stand Up Comity
I would think you could use 60hz hum but how are we to know that is exact.
Seriously get a piano tuners 440 tuning fork.
Hooray! You saw it!
The utility company keeps the 60Hz pretty tight, maybe ±0.05 Hz so that when they share power on the grid things don't explode.