What's wrong with popular music?
- Thread starter InTheFire
- Start date
In my mind, the mass-production way it's put together, along with the cliches and recycled ideas. Of course, it's nearly impossible to write a song completely unlike anything else, but some fresh ideas beyond love and loss could go a long way.
There's nothing wrong with pop music as a genre, and some of it can be really quite good, but when it's cranked out for huge profits is when there's an obvious problem.
There's nothing wrong with pop music as a genre, and some of it can be really quite good, but when it's cranked out for huge profits is when there's an obvious problem.
Sonic Misfit
New member
IMHO. The biggest problem is that the record companies see "PRODUCT" and not "ART." I have become so amused that there is a push to crank out similart sounding songs with no real consideration of the artistic qualities. Also, due to overengineering and locked in production requirements, everything is starting to sound the same.
Maybe this is why I listen to mostly independent artists.
Maybe this is why I listen to mostly independent artists.
I agree with what everyone else said, today's music is too cliche, everyone sounds the same and just like mcdonalds meat its overly processed. you know its like companies arent even looking for pure talent anymore because a lot of the the new artist nowadays sound totally different live than they do in the studio because the engineers make them sound good on cd.
jonhall5446
New member
It goes the same way with "new and inventive stuff". People like it because it's different and new, even though it sounds like shit.
Man, these are trying times.
I posted a question about watered down records and how the bands sound terrible live recently and I got no response. Partly because the engineers that you speak of are most of the folks you will meet here. I don't think it's their fault, technology has taken recording far beyond talent and dignity. If someone sucks and they'll pay for a watered down record, then why wouldn't anyone make it for them. Engineers are not going to turn a paycheck away. What really pisses me off is.... anyone with a half ass talent can make a good sounding record so our standards on talent have been lowered. The world was a better place when your shittiness was put on display and looks didn't stand over talent. Damn it, I am pissed off now
Man, these are trying times.
I posted a question about watered down records and how the bands sound terrible live recently and I got no response. Partly because the engineers that you speak of are most of the folks you will meet here. I don't think it's their fault, technology has taken recording far beyond talent and dignity. If someone sucks and they'll pay for a watered down record, then why wouldn't anyone make it for them. Engineers are not going to turn a paycheck away. What really pisses me off is.... anyone with a half ass talent can make a good sounding record so our standards on talent have been lowered. The world was a better place when your shittiness was put on display and looks didn't stand over talent. Damn it, I am pissed off now
Garry Sharp
Lost Cause
I'm not sure that much has changed, really. There has always been lots of crap, it's just that we tend to forget it and only remember the good stuff. I'm sad that my 15 year old daughter likes Nickelback, but glad that she enjoys Led Zep and U2.
In the last few years, we've had some good new stuff; Norah Jones is delightful, the UK has produced some bands I rate like Keane, British Sea Power, I loved the recent Finn Brothers album, Amy Winehouse is at least interesting, The Scissor Sisters (US but broken in the UK) are just such fun I can' thelp but like them (their album was produced in a home studio, BTW).
I completely agree with the comments about how record companies screw up music, I think I'm just saying that has always been the case. Modern production really sucks tho' - actually that is the fault of this bbs for making me appreciate that - if it wasn't for you bastards I'd still be in blissful ignorance
Like these penguins...
In the last few years, we've had some good new stuff; Norah Jones is delightful, the UK has produced some bands I rate like Keane, British Sea Power, I loved the recent Finn Brothers album, Amy Winehouse is at least interesting, The Scissor Sisters (US but broken in the UK) are just such fun I can' thelp but like them (their album was produced in a home studio, BTW).
I completely agree with the comments about how record companies screw up music, I think I'm just saying that has always been the case. Modern production really sucks tho' - actually that is the fault of this bbs for making me appreciate that - if it wasn't for you bastards I'd still be in blissful ignorance
Like these penguins...
Garry Sharp
Lost Cause
JaQsonA1 said:
Well, they haven't been cursed with the L2 limiter or whatever it's called
mawtangent
New member
I find that the music I was exposed to between roughly the age of 14 and 23 has special meaning to me and I (almost unconsciously) judge all music I come in contact with by that music from that era of my life. Some of my favorite music is "respectable" (the Beatles) and some of my favorite music gets mixed reviews as to how good it really is/was (early '80's New Wave music). When we experience or learn something the chemicals and synapses in our brains get altered (that is how we are able to recall past events); Maybe some kind of special bonding to our enviroment takes place in our late teens/early twenties that form our likes and dislikes for the rest of our life. I guess what I am saying is that I don't like the majority of new music coming out now but if I was twenty I would probably really be into it (even if it might be the product of heartless corporations).
Porter
aka WookieMan
Garry Sharp said:
Garry, one difference with the Finn brothers compared to a lot of other artists in the main stream is that they actually write, record, produce their own work, and they are talented. I'm not saying that everyone else is not, but there are exceptions to the rule.
There has been a recent trend here in Australia where Independent artists are becoming main stream. Ever heard of the John Butler Trio? He is an independent aritsts who took out this years Australian songwriting award, and is probably going to win a couple of Aria's (Aussie version of the Grammys).
Getting back to the initial question "What's wrong with popular music?" Have a listen to the music today, (again, this next statement isn't for all music) but it's more about the look, the sell, the tit's. The music is forgotten about. There was an Australian artist, Holly Valance. She came off one of the Aussie 'soaps' that the Brit's love. Anyway, her first manager in her first clip got her to dance around almost naked.. second clip the same. The album both of those were off sold heaps (and they were average songs). Anyway, she got annoyed with him, changed managers, released another album and the next clip was fully dressed etc, album didn't sell as many copies.
What I'm trying to say now is that 'popular music' these days isn't as much about the music. It's more about selling average songs with 'sex appeal' for the singer more than anything.
Porter
mawtangent said:
This is an interesting point which I, myself, have wondered many times. Do we all judge music by what we grew up with? Somehow, most of us appreciaters also came to love the music that came far before us. But, whatever is hot right now is always awful.
I grew up with STP, Soundgarden, Live, Toad the Wet Sprocket, Third Eye Blind(who could not perform), Nirvana, etc. ('91-'99)
I couldn't stand music after that period that wasn't related to these bands in some way. (Chris Cornell, Glen Phillips)
It took time but, after the hype was gone, I began to enjoy things like, Jeff Buckley, Ben Folds Five, Ben Folds, Radiohead, John Mayer, Coldplay, and a few others.
Are we just basing music by that emotional time in our lives?
lesterpaul
New member
i think ....
that some of this has to be laid at the feet of people buying this i mean if no one bought it would it still get made ...i try to turn several of my friends onto artists that they won't hear from unless someone makes a concious effort to look for them, and a lot of times they turn a deaf ear, sometimes i get through and they rave for weeks about how they never knew these people ...i think people are lazy to an extent when it comes to listening ,and the record companies are lazy to take a risk on talent and go for the hot thing ....sorry to say but it's all money driven
that some of this has to be laid at the feet of people buying this i mean if no one bought it would it still get made ...i try to turn several of my friends onto artists that they won't hear from unless someone makes a concious effort to look for them, and a lot of times they turn a deaf ear, sometimes i get through and they rave for weeks about how they never knew these people ...i think people are lazy to an extent when it comes to listening ,and the record companies are lazy to take a risk on talent and go for the hot thing ....sorry to say but it's all money driven
jfrog
uber-nerd
I think there's good music out there, but we just don't hear it. The radio stations have evolved into such a narrow format that you can't hear any variety anymore. If you don't hear the music, you don't buy it, and if you don't buy it, they don't promote it. It's a downward spiral, I'm afraid.
Look at the top 40 from, say 1973 or 74. You'd have John Denver and Aerosmith, Jim Croce and Led Zep on the to 40 list...and you'd actually hear them on the same radio stations, to boot. It aint so today, though. Stations just go off of narrowly defined, sanitized-for-your-protection playlists, be it the 80's playlist for the 80's station or the classic rock list for the classic rock station, or whatever.
Stations that used to play more off-the-beaten path music have gone the way of the bison.
Look at the top 40 from, say 1973 or 74. You'd have John Denver and Aerosmith, Jim Croce and Led Zep on the to 40 list...and you'd actually hear them on the same radio stations, to boot. It aint so today, though. Stations just go off of narrowly defined, sanitized-for-your-protection playlists, be it the 80's playlist for the 80's station or the classic rock list for the classic rock station, or whatever.
Stations that used to play more off-the-beaten path music have gone the way of the bison.
lesterpaul
New member
college radio ????
i don't know about where ya'll live but we have 2 great college stations here WGWG 88.3 Gardner Webb University and WNCW 88.7 Isothermal community college and they are both awesome i mean you may have to listen to hootenanny, bluegrass or just about anything(not that this is bad music )it's just you may not care for it what i'm saying is they play alot of different styles one of these stations has a show on Friday that caters only to N.C. groups no matter the genre or level of fame it's only an hour but it gets you some exposure ....i say all this to make the point that you can find some interesting music if you know where to look for it ,and these are listener and tax payer supported so they don't necesarilly adhere to the format of BIG radio
i don't know about where ya'll live but we have 2 great college stations here WGWG 88.3 Gardner Webb University and WNCW 88.7 Isothermal community college and they are both awesome i mean you may have to listen to hootenanny, bluegrass or just about anything(not that this is bad music )it's just you may not care for it what i'm saying is they play alot of different styles one of these stations has a show on Friday that caters only to N.C. groups no matter the genre or level of fame it's only an hour but it gets you some exposure ....i say all this to make the point that you can find some interesting music if you know where to look for it ,and these are listener and tax payer supported so they don't necesarilly adhere to the format of BIG radio
NationalSandwic
New member
hmmm.... here's a thought.
i've had many many conversations about this, and i'm sure you have (the whole Pop Is Shit tirade). But what I've started thinking is that while we label the pop fans as lazy, or ignorant; we can complain that record labels produce a 'product' and not 'art'; we can attach all these negative notions to explain why the current state of music is so poor. However, consider this: music IS a product. It is created and sold. That's what record labels do, and they do it shamelessly. I suppose there are moral or ethical levels that we can attack them on (exploitation? manipulation?), but we can't attack them for selling something that they want to, unless you want to destroy all capitalists world wide. Consider also this: The 'ignorant', 'lazy' masses may simply not have the same attachment to music as we (musicians) have. And when you consider that we all ARE musicians, it should be clear that our position to music is not the same as the listeners. What we need to do is find a way (NOT a compromise, mind you!) to create music that exists succesfully both within and beyond our musical mind-sets...
hmmm.. hope that made sense
i've had many many conversations about this, and i'm sure you have (the whole Pop Is Shit tirade). But what I've started thinking is that while we label the pop fans as lazy, or ignorant; we can complain that record labels produce a 'product' and not 'art'; we can attach all these negative notions to explain why the current state of music is so poor. However, consider this: music IS a product. It is created and sold. That's what record labels do, and they do it shamelessly. I suppose there are moral or ethical levels that we can attack them on (exploitation? manipulation?), but we can't attack them for selling something that they want to, unless you want to destroy all capitalists world wide. Consider also this: The 'ignorant', 'lazy' masses may simply not have the same attachment to music as we (musicians) have. And when you consider that we all ARE musicians, it should be clear that our position to music is not the same as the listeners. What we need to do is find a way (NOT a compromise, mind you!) to create music that exists succesfully both within and beyond our musical mind-sets...
hmmm.. hope that made sense
Porter said:
ok, it's not that I don't like the Finn brothers, cos I do, and I like 'Everyone is Here' - it's a solid record, but down here in New Zealand they've copped a lot of flak for making such a commercial record - it's almost a carbon copy of the rest of their body of work!!! (Also, I don't think they produced the record, but I could be wrong. I know they recorded one version of the album and then scratched it before making this one)
I personally don't think "music that is popular" sucks by definition alone. Like Garry says, there has always been a lot of shit around (did everyone miss the 70s and 80s!!!!????), but there's good stuff too.
Also, I think it has to be considered that a lot of the music-buying public don't actually listen to music all that much. Most of us on the bbs live and breathe music and so we hate stuff that's overly familiar, whereas my girlfriend listens to music mainly as a background to her life, and can't understand how I can sit and listen to a whole album and do nothing else for an hour.
For a lot of people, music needs to be immediately entertaining, and familiar enough so they don't have to try too hard. I think lester got it right in that people are lazy listeners, but hey, it works for them . . .
lesterpaul
New member
you made sense....
i stated earlier the lazy comment maybe that was a bad word choice ,i think you stated it better in the attachment part of your statement ...what i was getting at was that most people use music as time passer from point A to B .... i would also go a step further in your capitalist section that someone has to write this music and they get paid to do this and i think if someone wanted to pay me to write frivolous lyrics and music and they were going to pay me a chunk i would probably write it also ....NationalSandwic said:hmmm.... here's a thought. However, consider this: music IS a product. It is created and sold. That's what record labels do, and they do it shamelessly. I suppose there are moral or ethical levels that we can attack them on (exploitation? manipulation?), but we can't attack them for selling something that they want to, unless you want to destroy all capitalists world wide. Consider also this: The 'ignorant', 'lazy' masses may simply not have the same attachment to music as we (musicians) have. And when you consider that we all ARE musicians, it should be clear that our position to music is not the same as the listeners.
hmmm.. hope that made sense
Garry Sharp
Lost Cause
Well when I played the Finn's new album my gf said "Oh, that's Crowded House" - so the NZ flak seems justified, but I still like it.
Back to the topic, people get the music they deserve and I agree with the gist of many comments that most people don't care. The commercial world in general these days seems to be about the Lowest Common Denominator forming the marketing cornerstone for the major companies, with little specialists meeting the demands of the more discerning. That seems to apply to music and a lot more besides.
Back to the topic, people get the music they deserve and I agree with the gist of many comments that most people don't care. The commercial world in general these days seems to be about the Lowest Common Denominator forming the marketing cornerstone for the major companies, with little specialists meeting the demands of the more discerning. That seems to apply to music and a lot more besides.
guitarhunny
New member
The big record companies produce what sells, if they can make money with it they will. The majority are not into the art of it. It is our job as artists to make music that stretches people and gets them involved. Until the masses get involved in the art of it and find it appealing the "BIG" record companies will continue to produce mostly detached unrealistic blather that sounds no more than mildly entertaining, and easy on the brain. Sometimes it feels like no one wants to dig deeper into music, maybe people are just too busy or lazy.
There are exceptions in popular music today. Random, beautiful and few and far between. Such as Nora Jones etc. I think that the singer/songwriter, artistic musical types are making a come back. It will just take a while.
I try to look at it as a challenge to create something that might bring someone to listen just a little harder without feeling like they have to work too hard for it.
There are exceptions in popular music today. Random, beautiful and few and far between. Such as Nora Jones etc. I think that the singer/songwriter, artistic musical types are making a come back. It will just take a while.
I try to look at it as a challenge to create something that might bring someone to listen just a little harder without feeling like they have to work too hard for it.