G
gordone
Well-known member
You are correct, but for tyrantdadon, I'm pretty sure he wants a parameq for what he is trying to do. And I'm sure he wasn't using an API!
In my humble studio, I use Waves REQ and Q10.
Didn't mean to make that much of a blanket statement
In my humble studio, I use Waves REQ and Q10.
Didn't mean to make that much of a blanket statement
Teacher said:API 560 graphic eq? I know plenty of 'pro engineers' who love this eq what are you talkin about?
C
chessrock
Banned
tyrantdadon said:
Look, I'm not sure if I like where this is going.
If you cut 16 khz like that, I'm just not sure if your vocal is going to have enough . . . hmmm . . . how do I say this (?) . . . HOT-NESSSSSS.
And if you boost 0-4 khz, I'm afraid you may actually suffer from hotness overload. Which could lead to what is known as "hotnessss fatigue." It's a pretty serious thing.
I mean . . . you do know that 0-4 khz is the "hot" range, don't you? I don't think your stuff needs any more of that. It's already so hot, I'm burning up all the way over here.
C
chessrock
Banned
Fellas . . . my name is Bruce Dickenson. Yes, THE Bruce Dickenson.
And you have what appears to be a dynamite sound.
I like what I'm hearing . . . really.
But I gotta' be honest. I could use a little more . . .
HOTNESSSSSS ! ! ! ! !
And you have what appears to be a dynamite sound.
I like what I'm hearing . . . really.
But I gotta' be honest. I could use a little more . . .
HOTNESSSSSS ! ! ! ! !
L
LRosario
New member
Try this effects combo with your clean (dry) vocals track: This is assuming you've recorded to the proper levels.
EQ (light and/or if nessessary)
Vocal Compression (usually rather heavy)
Light vocal reverb
Light hall reverb
Light compression (to finalize)
It's those two layers of compression that start shaping your vocal sound.
You can screw with the order to get different outcomes. I wouldn't compress more than 3 times.
EQ (light and/or if nessessary)
Vocal Compression (usually rather heavy)
Light vocal reverb
Light hall reverb
Light compression (to finalize)
It's those two layers of compression that start shaping your vocal sound.
You can screw with the order to get different outcomes. I wouldn't compress more than 3 times.
T
tyrantdadon
New member
thanks 2 everybody for the help. my vocals are soundin alot better with a narrower, para eq, and light reverb. i mixed DA YAY if you want to hear on soundclick...
DA YAY
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/1/baythealbumpreviewmusic.htm
DA YAY
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/1/baythealbumpreviewmusic.htm
C
Cloneboy Studio
.
Honestly, the doubles on the vocal take aren't remotely tight enough. That's the real problem. No amount of EQ or compression or 'verb is going to make those vocals tight. You have to recut the overdubs because they are a mile off.
P
plainrat
New member
what MIC and PRE???
never read that anyone mentioned these. your solution could be found at the very beginning. 4-5,000 $$ mics nd 2-4000$ preamps cause the main difference between a home recordist's vocal sound an the pros. pre's are essential to the largeness of everything in your mix. Neve,focusrite,avalon to mention a few. an expensive solution surely, but the best I think.
never read that anyone mentioned these. your solution could be found at the very beginning. 4-5,000 $$ mics nd 2-4000$ preamps cause the main difference between a home recordist's vocal sound an the pros. pre's are essential to the largeness of everything in your mix. Neve,focusrite,avalon to mention a few. an expensive solution surely, but the best I think.
C
chessrock
Banned
plainrat said:
Not really. Having nice stuff doesn't hurt, but honestly, it's not going to make up the major difference. Frankly, most of it has to do with the poor room accoustics common to most home/projects studios . . . and the knowlege / experience of the engineer.
Outlaws
New member
chessrock said:
Damn fucking right!
Fuck these thousand dollar pres. I should have properly treated my room first.
...then upgraded those things.
C
Cloneboy Studio
.
plainrat said:never read that anyone mentioned these. your solution could be found at the very beginning. 4-5,000 $$ mics nd 2-4000$ preamps cause the main difference between a home recordist's vocal sound an the pros. pre's are essential to the largeness of everything in your mix. Neve,focusrite,avalon to mention a few. an expensive solution surely, but the best I think.
Dead wrong on the microphone issues when you consider the typical microphones used by pro AE's on big albums. You do see a few U87's, but rarely anything like a 10k Manley mic. The pro's use the same microphones as most of the larger home recordists--MD421's, SM57's, AKG 414's, C2000's, D112's and so forth. Sometimes you might see some ribbon mics that are a little pricey.
Now the outboard equipment is another story. Not too many people here can afford to have STC-8's and so forth but honestly there are so many fantastic plugins that the degree of difference is shortening and shortening every year.
Bottom line is that the pro's have access to the space, time and knowledge to get things right. When you look how long it takes to produce an album on the 'regular dude' level (maybe a week or a month at most?) versus the pro-audio world's schedule of 3-6 months or longer... it starts to make sense. Also, it becomes easier to record a good sounding album when you are working with bands like Nirvana, or The Rolling Stones and so on--most of us record bands that have about 5% of the skill of a professional band.
Does the ultra high end fetish compressors/preamps/outboard make a difference? Sure. But if you take your time and are well informed, and use professional gear (which doesn't necessarily cost a fortune--an older Rode NT1 is professional) you should get good results.
J
jakeislistening
New member
tyrantdadon said:
boost = to add dB's (in this case percieved volume) to a frequency range
cut = to remove dB's for a range
Do you know what a parametric eq is? It allows you to select frequency and Q (basically how wide a shovel you're using) when adding or cutting to a certain frequency. Like a high Q value = very tight notch... like just the frequency that you are after, can sound weird maybe or low Q value = loose, broad notch, for a more general reduction or addition. But look, like the other posts said, this isnt' going to magically make your vocals "good" or even have "hotness" there are so many great pages with info that you have to read, not just threads of discussion. I'd get some magazines (mix, sound on sound, Eq, etc.) to just to familiarize yourself with some of the vocabulary as well. I think it helps alot to open up some concepts...
good luck
T
tsl92802
New member
Get a good mic. Get a good pre amp. Learn ANYTHING about what you're doing. Have your "MC" learn how to double. Learn how to bring the hotness. Use a 3:1 compression to start. Use reverb. Use someone who knows what they're doing. At all. Even a little. I hate you. TO quote chessrock/your "MC" (note the quotes...) "it's hotness"
S
SEDstar
Active member
when asked, i will respond...
everything else aside.....one SPECIFIC question asked:
"...blah blah how can i cut frequencies above 16k ?"
regardless of whgat you are doing or why, one good way to cut freq's is to set your software compressor to ONLY work at 16k and up...my cool edit pro software compressor does this...i listen with my eq, but make no adjustments...then if i think i want to try to eliminate rumble below 100hz, for instance, i set phasers (compressor) on KILL...but i touch nothing else. You can set the compressor to only touch freq's above 16k.
WHY you want to do this is probably more important. I am still trying to figure out HOW to use spectral analysis properly. Didnt i hear you say this was a rap/ hiphop thing? I cant picture too much of the vocals is going on up there above 16k...unless its bleed over, i might think it was some harmonics? The hell you got to lose...its just data. backup the track to a diff folder, and experiment. I will copythe originals after I Noise reduce them for safekeeping, then i play to my hearts content... try this:
1) make a backup of originals...separate folder, as some software will "update" for you, not helpful...lol
2) set the compressor to only work on freq's above 19k...and i mean set phasers on kill...999 to 1...put it in a vise but ONLY at 19k and up.
3) test listen critically, at low, mid, hi volumes...if nothing happens, or if its better, cut away again, moving down 1k each time...
eventually, youll take away 1k too much.....youre done...delete this play track, because you backed up the originals, right? get a copy of the opriginal...and you know you want to kill 1k less. Lets say last cut was 12k.....and it finally sounded bad...goto 13k and up to kill. Youll definitely be getting rid of any harmonics that might have been there, and if you hear no difference, at the least you have a tad more headroom.
sometimes you just need to experiment...hard drive space is cheap, and never touch the originals. You mess the mix up, toss it out and grab a copy of the original and start over. Its not like its costing you anytihng in the studio...its your own computer in your own house. Experiment. Just make sure you never workon the originals, only on copies. Have fun.
everything else aside.....one SPECIFIC question asked:
"...blah blah how can i cut frequencies above 16k ?"
regardless of whgat you are doing or why, one good way to cut freq's is to set your software compressor to ONLY work at 16k and up...my cool edit pro software compressor does this...i listen with my eq, but make no adjustments...then if i think i want to try to eliminate rumble below 100hz, for instance, i set phasers (compressor) on KILL...but i touch nothing else. You can set the compressor to only touch freq's above 16k.
WHY you want to do this is probably more important. I am still trying to figure out HOW to use spectral analysis properly. Didnt i hear you say this was a rap/ hiphop thing? I cant picture too much of the vocals is going on up there above 16k...unless its bleed over, i might think it was some harmonics? The hell you got to lose...its just data. backup the track to a diff folder, and experiment. I will copythe originals after I Noise reduce them for safekeeping, then i play to my hearts content... try this:
1) make a backup of originals...separate folder, as some software will "update" for you, not helpful...lol
2) set the compressor to only work on freq's above 19k...and i mean set phasers on kill...999 to 1...put it in a vise but ONLY at 19k and up.
3) test listen critically, at low, mid, hi volumes...if nothing happens, or if its better, cut away again, moving down 1k each time...
eventually, youll take away 1k too much.....youre done...delete this play track, because you backed up the originals, right? get a copy of the opriginal...and you know you want to kill 1k less. Lets say last cut was 12k.....and it finally sounded bad...goto 13k and up to kill. Youll definitely be getting rid of any harmonics that might have been there, and if you hear no difference, at the least you have a tad more headroom.
sometimes you just need to experiment...hard drive space is cheap, and never touch the originals. You mess the mix up, toss it out and grab a copy of the original and start over. Its not like its costing you anytihng in the studio...its your own computer in your own house. Experiment. Just make sure you never workon the originals, only on copies. Have fun.
Outlaws
New member
SEDstar said:
Wasn't there a whole thing a few posts back about proper terminology?
"Kill"?
Thats almost as tacky of a name as some of the guitar pedals that call the EQ "guts" and "scream".
T
tyrantdadon
New member
thanks to everybody for all the help. by the way we do double all our stuff, i just make it barely noticeable. i got my vocals sounding better by condensing them in the stereo field (cool edit's pan/expand) and putting a light reverb on them. i condensed them because before they were too wide and competing with the beat.
J
jonhall5446
New member
I would like to thank you folks for supplying one of the most entertaining posts yet.
I was rolling in the floor on the first page but then the second page lost some "hotn- well I won't go there.
Let's try to pick up the entertainment value for page three (see chessrock rules of engagement)
I was rolling in the floor on the first page but then the second page lost some "hotn- well I won't go there.
Let's try to pick up the entertainment value for page three (see chessrock rules of engagement)
G
glimmer_doll
New member
Outlaws said:
hey...i happen to like those pedals!...oh wait...i also happen to like tacky things..
S
SEDstar
Active member
i just have a sense of humor.....
yah, i know proper terminology is important. But at ths same time we all hear and use various untechnological, unquantifiable terms quite regularly. We all have a good idea what "shimmer", "presence", "hotness" mean. Sure, "shimmer" is a synonym for "sheen", ans refers to freq's at and above 12k, but thats in some mixing dictionary somewhere. Mixing techs start talking with the musicians theyre working with/for, and you start hearing and using words with no quantifiable measure or definition, but we all know what they mean.
a musician uses the phrase "that synth sounds too blocky dude...we want it to sound smoother..." we know hes referring to the attack and systain/decay relationship, you alienate people by launching into a technical description sometimes.
plus...i just have an irreverent sense of humor. If I am using the compressor, set exclusively to reduce frequencies in the 260 to 270 hz region because i feel they are causing the problem, touching nothing else, i cant help but think of the compressor like the starship enterprise hunting selected frequencies, and i'm the commander kirk. The guy at the mixing desk is in CHARGE, dammit.
"Lt. Uhura, inform the producer were almost done cleaningup the audio. Mr. Spock, prepare the compressor. Do a scan for anything in the 260 to 270 hertz region. Sulu, set phasers on kill." "Cap'n...if we set phasers on stun, around 3:1, the offending frequencies wont be able to harm the track, sir." "We just...cant...TAKE that chance. Ratio 999:1...you have my orders. Set phasers on kill."
imagine this: I used to be a software engineer. I was good. But I scared some people. They were listening outside the office, and i was doing soft cartoon voices of the "program". the offending algorithm was getting the voice of a cartoon heavy bad guy, real low. there was a "victim" data, high pitched wail. The software fix had the voice of the confident hero. I thought I was alone in the office late, and I suppose they found it quite disconcerting to suddenly hear a low growly voice say "I will smear the walls with the blood of the innocent data....Noooooo!......You! Put that subroutine down slowly. We only pass objects by reference in this town, mister." (this is sadly a true story)
yah, i know proper terminology is important. But at ths same time we all hear and use various untechnological, unquantifiable terms quite regularly. We all have a good idea what "shimmer", "presence", "hotness" mean. Sure, "shimmer" is a synonym for "sheen", ans refers to freq's at and above 12k, but thats in some mixing dictionary somewhere. Mixing techs start talking with the musicians theyre working with/for, and you start hearing and using words with no quantifiable measure or definition, but we all know what they mean.
a musician uses the phrase "that synth sounds too blocky dude...we want it to sound smoother..." we know hes referring to the attack and systain/decay relationship, you alienate people by launching into a technical description sometimes.
plus...i just have an irreverent sense of humor. If I am using the compressor, set exclusively to reduce frequencies in the 260 to 270 hz region because i feel they are causing the problem, touching nothing else, i cant help but think of the compressor like the starship enterprise hunting selected frequencies, and i'm the commander kirk. The guy at the mixing desk is in CHARGE, dammit.
"Lt. Uhura, inform the producer were almost done cleaningup the audio. Mr. Spock, prepare the compressor. Do a scan for anything in the 260 to 270 hertz region. Sulu, set phasers on kill." "Cap'n...if we set phasers on stun, around 3:1, the offending frequencies wont be able to harm the track, sir." "We just...cant...TAKE that chance. Ratio 999:1...you have my orders. Set phasers on kill."
imagine this: I used to be a software engineer. I was good. But I scared some people. They were listening outside the office, and i was doing soft cartoon voices of the "program". the offending algorithm was getting the voice of a cartoon heavy bad guy, real low. there was a "victim" data, high pitched wail. The software fix had the voice of the confident hero. I thought I was alone in the office late, and I suppose they found it quite disconcerting to suddenly hear a low growly voice say "I will smear the walls with the blood of the innocent data....Noooooo!......You! Put that subroutine down slowly. We only pass objects by reference in this town, mister." (this is sadly a true story)
