What's wrong with my room?

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MadMax

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I think I'll need bass traps somewhere, but am I doing something fundamentally wrong?
My room is 11'3" x 11'3" with 9' ceiling. My mix position is in a corner. I'm using JBL LSR 28p monitors (kinda big) and the backs of them are about 1' off the wall behind them (diagonal since they're in a corner). There's 40" between the centers of the monitors and about 40" to my ears.
Here's the problem; HUGE BASS behind me that I don't hear at my mix position. If I roll my chair back 4-5-6 feet it just gets bigger and bigger.

Questions;
1. is a diagonal mix position wrong?
2. are my room dimensions accentuating this 60-80 hz bump?
3. what's a cheap, temporary way to treat this space?

I would appreciate answers from someone who really knows. Thanks.
 
MadMax said:
I think I'll need bass traps somewhere, but am I doing something fundamentally wrong?
My room is 11'3" x 11'3" with 9' ceiling. My mix position is in a corner. I'm using JBL LSR 28p monitors (kinda big) and the backs of them are about 1' off the wall behind them (diagonal since they're in a corner). There's 40" between the centers of the monitors and about 40" to my ears.
Here's the problem; HUGE BASS behind me that I don't hear at my mix position. If I roll my chair back 4-5-6 feet it just gets bigger and bigger.

Questions;
1. is a diagonal mix position wrong?
2. are my room dimensions accentuating this 60-80 hz bump?
3. what's a cheap, temporary way to treat this space?

I would appreciate answers from someone who really knows. Thanks.
Click to expand...

The only thing I know for sure is that square rooms are not the best and only help to acentuate a particular frequency, and I only know that from reading Ethan's article on acoustics.

I'd be interested what the experts say about mixing/monitoring in a room corner because that's what I do...
 
Move out of the corner and make the listening position an equallateral triangle from the speakers as shown (put speakers on stands). Also add 4" thick (8'x2' rigid fiberglass framed in wood and the whole thing wrapped with fabric) corner bass traps to each corner. This should sort your bass problem, but the room is still far from perfect. You should also add broadband absorbers in the first reflection points on the side walls and a cloud on the ceiling. And also cover the back wall in broadband absorbers.
 

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pandamonk said:
Move out of the corner and make the listening position an equallateral triangle from the speakers as shown (put speakers on stands). Also add 4" thick (8'x2' rigid fiberglass framed in wood and the whole thing wrapped with fabric) corner bass traps to each corner.
Click to expand...

well done... it seems we both get into replying to these threads.. lol

Rock on!
 
Yeah even though we have to say the same thing over and over i still enjoy it. It makes me feel smart. :D
 
pandamonk said:
Yeah even though we have to say the same thing over and over i still enjoy it. It makes me feel smart. :D
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You seem smart to me and i haven't heard the same thing over and over.
Just one thing, I thought I read somewhere that because of my square room, I should mix in a corner. Although, I was against a flat wall before and I had basically the same problem, just not as severe.
 
You should never mix in the corner. That is where all the bass builds up. What you need is to get out of the corner and add bass traps to the corners. As a test, play music in any room and walk towards the corner. It's wierd, the closer you get to the corner the bassier and boomier it gets. A square room is bad for mixing in, and even a rectangular room is pretty bad. Thing is, it's harder to build odd shaped rooms, and most of the time inappropriate.
 
pandamonk said:
Move out of the corner and make the listening position an equallateral triangle from the speakers as shown (put speakers on stands). Also add 4" thick (8'x2' rigid fiberglass framed in wood and the whole thing wrapped with fabric) corner bass traps to each corner. This should sort your bass problem, but the room is still far from perfect. You should also add broadband absorbers in the first reflection points on the side walls and a cloud on the ceiling. And also cover the back wall in broadband absorbers.
Click to expand...
what would you do, If I threw a sub into that equation?
 
brandrum said:
what would you do, If I threw a sub into that equation?
Click to expand...
Why would you do that? Emm just put the sub below or behind the desk? Is this a test?
 
I have another question. What is the real sound my monitors are putting out? When I'm sitting at my mix position, it sounds OK, but when I back up away from my monitors, I hear much more bass. So if I put in bass traps, the bass frequency in the back of the room will go away, right? But is that the true sound my mix is putting out? Don't I want my monitors/room (they are a system, right?) to represent what I'm mixing in my DAW?
I mean, if I play a reference CD and I don't hear the bass back there, isn't the problem with my mix and not my room? even though I can't hear it at my mix position?
There's got to be some kind of formula where I could enter room dimensions and it'll tell me what the fundamental frequencies are isn't there?
 
Well all smallish, if not all rooms have problems with bass frequencies, so you will never hear "real sound" your monitors are putting out, unless you add significant bass absorbsion. And even then it wont be perfect.
 
MadMax said:
There's got to be some kind of formula where I could enter room dimensions and it'll tell me what the fundamental frequencies are isn't there?
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Yeah, there are room mode calculators but that doesn't matter because there are lots of modes (resonant frequencies) and you can't eq your way around them.

If you're serious, and you kinda hafta be now that you've noticed how differently things sound in different areas, you must add bass traps.

Here is your cheapest solution.

corner-trap.gif
 
That's it huh? So if I wrap every corner with that duct board I'll be set? That's the stuff they make A/C ducts out of isn't it? Hollow behind it?
 
MadMax said:
That's it huh? So if I wrap every corner with that duct board I'll be set? That's the stuff they make A/C ducts out of isn't it? Hollow behind it?
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Please read the article. The material is Owens Corning 703 rigid fiberglass insulation.
 
What I'd like to know is which instrument Sylvester the cat plays?
 
Yes. Those will work well.

To go back a little bit - don't discount the idea of a subwoofer. Having the flexibility to move around the 'bass generator) while maintaining proper seating and monitor placement offers a TON of flexibility in bass tuning.
 
I have a feeling my monitors might be too big for my room. I'm using JBL LSR 28P's. I just may pick up a little boom box for a near filed reference too.
I'm also picking up a box of Owens Corning 703 today.
Anybody put up the fiberglass and then cover it with carpet? Or is that a bad idea? Right now, I've got half my room wrapped in carpet.
I'm also going to take the rug off of the tile floor.
 
MadMax said:
I have a feeling my monitors might be too big for my room. I'm using JBL LSR 28P's. I just may pick up a little boom box for a near filed reference too.
I'm also picking up a box of Owens Corning 703 today.
Anybody put up the fiberglass and then cover it with carpet? Or is that a bad idea? Right now, I've got half my room wrapped in carpet.
I'm also going to take the rug off of the tile floor.
Click to expand...

Carpet on the walls is bad because it absorbs the very high frequencies giving the room a weird kinda dead. Cover the 703 in an open weave cloth, flame retardant if possible. Natural fabrics like cotton don't put out as many nasty chemicals when they burn as synthetics. If you can easily breath through the cloth it will probably be acoustically transparent enough.
 
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