whats the Softest, most silent hihat you know?

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earworm

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hi guys,
i bought a drumkit when i was 14, with Sabian B8 cymbals
cause i didn't have any money left,
all the cymbals are totally smashed to shit now,
so i'm gonna buy me a new hihat this summer.

One problem, ever since i started recording my drums on tape
or minidisc, later on computer i had a hihat that was too loud,
no matter where i put the 1 or two roommics,
or even now that i got an entire drumkit miked up, the hihat
is ALWAYS too loud, don't blame my mics, mics position,
believe me, i've been trough lots of things...

so now i wanna take care of the problem at the source,
this time i want a soft, smooth, silent sounding hihat,
what should i look for cause i have NO clue

i wanna be able to hit it superhard, and still then i don't want a harsh sound,
even when i play mine softly it THHHIICSSCKSCKSKSSSS instead of
tssk,
when it goes open, my god, you don't want me to describe that sound,
i made my point

should i look for jazz hihats...ehm....... just any suggestion will do !

cheers,
earworm
 
if you read about proffessional drum recording, i think it was the who that gave a good example of it, they all say, hit the cymbols quiet and the rest of the kit will come right out. Rather than getting a quieter hihat, you should try to figure out how loud you like it each peice to sound, and focus on playing them so they sound that loud recorded. But hey, i dont even play drums, you might be able to just buy a quiter hihat or mute it somehow.
 
I tried some Istanbul hihats at NAMM. They were VERY soft. I don't know if they could take a hard pounding, though. They kind of reminded me of old Paiste 602's which were soft and shimmery but could break like paper if you hit 'em hard. 602's were stamped out of sheet bronze, though. Istanbuls are cast cymbals so they should be tougher.

Anyone? Anyone?
 
Hitting too hard

Yeah,

I second the idea that you must be hitting the hats too hard. Hihats can be one of the louder parts of the kit, but you shouldn't have a problem keeping them at a reasonable level in comparison to the rest of the kit.

I know you said not to question your mic placement . . . .but when you say that you are micing the entire kit are you putting a mic on the hats? hopefully not if they are way too loud. What mics are you using? Try using just a kick mic, a snare mic (pointed at the snare with its back to the hats) and maybe one overhead mic.

You might also want to try lowering your hats so that you hit them on the top of them rather than on the edge. That might reduce the volume of them a little.

Also, are they too loud when they are played both open and closed, or just open?
 
Jazz hats - Stick Size

Also, if you do buy Jazz hats you probably shouldn't hit them super hard. They really aren't made for "rocking out". They usually can't take the same amount of abuse as hihats geared towards rock music can.

What size stick are you playing with? Maybe you could try using a smaller stick size.
 
Yup

All great advice above - start by learning to lighten up on the cymbals when you play. A lot of us drummers become dependent on hitting the hats hard in order to feel like nailing the beat.

Instead, practice hitting the bassdrum twice as hard as you hit with your hands, let the bass drum nail the beat. This will greatly improve your situation.

Also, the room you're recording in is going to be a factor, especially if the hihats are too close to the walls or corners of the room.

Some soundproofing on the ceiling above the kit might help; switching to wooden tips might help too.

As far as new hihats, check out a pair of 13" hats as well. See if you like them, but some are even louder than 14" on recordings so be sure to compare.

Good luck, Rez
 
Hmmm... ya know, now that I think about it...

You know when you're first starting out, that whole right hand over left hand thing (reverse if you're lefty) really does make you pound the hihat because you can't get the left hand up for the snare until you learn the wrist thingys. (and rimshots etc.)

(earworm, I am not implying you are a beginner, I'm just reflecting.)

A long time ago, I remember I used to smack the shit out of my hihats (original Amirs, thick and LOUD) and this was at a time when it was popular to play the half-open sound. Even LOUDER!

"Control. Control! You must learn control!!!" - Yoda.
 
Another thing...

Another thing that can make the hats too loud is using too much compression at the wrong frequencies. Try backing off on the compressor if you're using one and/or cutting some of the higher frequencies if you can.
 
You're micing up each drum individually? What mics have too much hihat in them? You might be getting too much bleed from the snare mic or something (yeah I know you said it's not placement, but you never know).
 
ok here i am,
i never mic my hihat cause they are so loud,
they just sound loud, and want to replace them with another pair,
i know i can hit them real hard, but of course i thought about hitting them soft, even hitting only with the tips of the sticks

most of the time i play them closed, when half open they're way too loud,
today i installed a pearl export drum from the punkband i'm gonna record,
the kit sounds better than mine, he also has Sabian B8 hats,
and i can't believe it, but even his sound better


mine have a crack...

so i got mics on every part of the drum exept hihat,
and i try not to hit them to hard,
so once again the question,
i'm gonna buy new hihats anyway and don't have lots of stores around where i can test hats...
suggestions are always more than welcome! :)
 
PhilGood said:
I tried some Istanbul hihats at NAMM. They were VERY soft. I don't know if they could take a hard pounding, though. They kind of reminded me of old Paiste 602's which were soft and shimmery but could break like paper if you hit 'em hard. 602's were stamped out of sheet bronze, though. Istanbuls are cast cymbals so they should be tougher.

Anyone? Anyone?
Click to expand...

The 602's were Paiste's best line for years - but it's also where Paiste got the repuation of beingeasy to break - because the 602 was created before amplifiers had any REAL volume. Thin cymbals are always the best for recording.

I would say for recording, take a listen to the Wuhan western style cymbals, and just keep in mind that theyare VERY thin cymbals, but they have that 602 kind of sound.

Any thin hi-hat is going to be softer, and darker - but also easier to break.
 
Tim Brown said:
The 602's were Paiste's best line for years - but it's also where Paiste got the repuation of beingeasy to break - because the 602 was created before amplifiers had any REAL volume. Thin cymbals are always the best for recording.

I would say for recording, take a listen to the Wuhan western style cymbals, and just keep in mind that theyare VERY thin cymbals, but they have that 602 kind of sound.

Any thin hi-hat is going to be softer, and darker - but also easier to break.
Click to expand...

Oooh!...uh...I made the mistake of buying a pair of Wuhan western style hi-hats. These puppies are *freakishly* loud (and trashy)! Not kidding! I don't think I got a bad pair because that's the way they were advertised on eBay. The guy had 3 pair he was selling and all the adds said the same thing - LOUD. I had to go back to my old Paiste's.

Maybe he just had 3 really thick pair. My thin Wuhan spashes are very nice and not too loud. Good balance. The thicker ones are very loud so maybe it only applies to the thick Wuhans. Try a thin pair and see if the volumes are better.

$.02
 
I'm quite partial to my Zildjian A Custom hats. There pretty quiet and not so robust compared to some of the paiste & sabian I've had in the past. The sound won't be cutting thru a wall of marshall stacks, but they sound killer. Great for recording. I've been twacking them for years and they've held up really well. Lighter wood-tipped sticks of course will help too. My additional 2¢
 
PhilGood said:
Oooh!...uh...I made the mistake of buying a pair of Wuhan western style hi-hats. These puppies are *freakishly* loud (and trashy)! Not kidding! I don't think I got a bad pair because that's the way they were advertised on eBay. The guy had 3 pair he was selling and all the adds said the same thing - LOUD. I had to go back to my old Paiste's.

Maybe he just had 3 really thick pair. My thin Wuhan spashes are very nice and not too loud. Good balance. The thicker ones are very loud so maybe it only applies to the thick Wuhans. Try a thin pair and see if the volumes are better.

$.02
Click to expand...


What series Wuhan hats? I checked out some of the original 14" ones and I was seriously thinking about buying a small Wuhan setup of hats, a ride, and 2 crashes just for recording. Agreed the thin splashes are great... nice and "papery" (made me think of Stewart Copeland's splashes on "Wrapped around your finger")
I checked out the Wuhan hi-hats and rides when Wuhan first started making them, so perhaps they are making them thicker now I don't know. I haven't seen any of the "S" series, so I don't know what those are like either.

Tim
 
Tim Brown said:
What series Wuhan hats? I checked out some of the original 14" ones and I was seriously thinking about buying a small Wuhan setup of hats, a ride, and 2 crashes just for recording. Agreed the thin splashes are great... nice and "papery" (made me think of Stewart Copeland's splashes on "Wrapped around your finger")
I checked out the Wuhan hi-hats and rides when Wuhan first started making them, so perhaps they are making them thicker now I don't know. I haven't seen any of the "S" series, so I don't know what those are like either.

Tim
Click to expand...


They weren't the S series. I have a 16" S-series crash and like it very much. They're just the regular western hi-hats.

I honestly think they just grab any ol' sheet of bronze, throw it at someone and say "YOU --- MAKE CYMBAL NOW!!" If its thick its thick, if its thin its thin. Who knows. All of them have a bit of that white-noise china sound to them too. It's kinda nice in the splashes. (like you said, the papery-ness is great!) Not so good in the crashes and hihats.

I'm back to using Paistes.
 
haha, "u make cymbal now",
thats how they make wuhan,

and "look i made cymbal" is how they make istanbul :)

weird stuff, the drummer i worked with today had the same B8 sabian hihat (BOOOO JUNK in my opinion) but they sounded better than MINE !! i got the same ones... but mine have a crack in them...

i'm tempted to look at the wuhans, but i'll save up some money and get me some decent paiste machines this summer i think,
this time i want cymbals i really like, maybe a hihat that is worth recording , cause now i try to avoid ALL hihat sound in any mic !
souned nice today untill the drummer started it hitting hard...god,
hihat all over the drumsound, i hate that !

and GOD the drummer had a nice drumpedal !
double bassdrum Tama Cobra ! i want that one too !
SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much better than my Dixon pedal...
i could even play double kicks easily on these !
since i heard the kick and snare of this Pearl Export drum i'm considering real hard tweaking the hell out of my sonor or selling it...

the sound of the kick was AMAZING, superclear CLICK and heartwarming thumb, no boxy unpleasant sound....wish i killed the drummer and kept his gear... :o
 
sonor force 2000
they don't make it anymore,
bought it .....8 years ago,
got black ebony remo heads on toms,
black evan heads on kick

mhhhhh....i'm into darkness i guess...
 
earworm said:
sonor force 2000
they don't make it anymore,
bought it .....8 years ago,
got black ebony remo heads on toms,
black evan heads on kick

mhhhhh....i'm into darkness i guess...
Click to expand...


I would say keep the Sonors - those are a better made kit than the Exports, I had a friend with a set of them and I was really shocked at the quality of them.
What kind of heads were on the Pearl kit? If you don't know, call that drumnmer and find out. Then try the same heads on your kit.
Was the kick the same size? What type of mallet are you using, and what did the guy with the Pearl drums have for Kick mallets?

I've found that for recording, smaller diameter kicks seem to record a lot better than larger ones.

You say you've got black Evans heads on the kick - what kind? Are they Oil heads? (called "Black Gold") if so, that's going to be a massively dead thump, no boom at all, and probably no real click to speak of.
I liked them in the 80's, but I was trying to re-create Lee Kerslake's drumsound on Ozzy's Diary of a Madman LP at the time.

I know a lot of guys have gone with Aquarian Heads and swear by the things; I like using all the same heads from the same manufacturer, but since I have a 20" Floor Tom - my choice is limited - Aquarian doesn't make a 20" Floor tom head -and I talked to them and they have no intention of making one - because there's not much of a market for them - but they did start making 28" Kick heads after I kept pestering them.... so who knows, perhaps one day they'll start making them as well. I think Roy Burns got sick of my E-mails. :D



Tim
 
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