Whats the REAL difference?

  • Thread starter Thread starter JPlush76
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CyanJaguar said:
Just like in any other proffession, there is a correlation between the quality of the gear and the quality of the output.

And from my limited experience, I have noticed quantifiable improvements with ugrades in gear.
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I agree with you, to an extent, Cyan.

I don't think you can deny, though, that the gap has been narrowing so dramatically, in the last 5-6 years, between the "high-end" and the "prosumer" gear that in another 5-6 years, I wonder if anyone will even know the difference.

You yourself admitted you could tell very little difference between some sample sounds recorded through a mackie preamp and those done with much more high end stuff. AKM converters have gotten so pristine and accurate, most people have a hard time distinguishing akm a/d conversion from that done with a lucid or an apoge. You might also remember a vocal sample where you were surprized at the lack of quality on a vocal track done with a $10K microphone.

I agree that there is a positive corrleation between the quality of gear and the pleasingness of the sound produced (is pleasingness a word?). But I'm afraid the correlation between the quality of the gear and the amount of money you have to spend on it is disappearing rapidly.
 
There's no doubt that we can't get recordings on a "equal footing" with the top studios....but the question was can we get radio quality and I think we can. There's plenty of stuff on the radio that doesn't sound exceptional. Looking at it like that, there's no reason we couldn't get stuff to sound good enough for airplay even if it can never sound as good as the much more expensive gear the big boys have.
 
Just to point out...

I never said "gear doesn't matter"... what I said was that the skills and experience of a GOOD engineer makes the bigger difference....

You can throw a monkey behind a Neve console and it still won't come out sounding like a record.......... and apparently there are A LOT of monkeys behind Neve's these days, judging by the calibre of recordings being made today!

That doesn't change the fact that a GOOD engineer can make a lowly 4-track work for them if they wanted to.... that doesn't imply they can make it sound like a Neve or 2" Studer either - simply that given a novice with a 4-track, and a pro with a 4-track, who do you think will turn out a better product...........

OTOH - How about a novice behind a Neve??? Well - I have absolutely NO DOUBT that they would be able to make it sound like a 4-track!!! :p

:D :D
 
chessrock said:


I agree with you, to an extent, Cyan.

I don't think you can deny, though, that the gap has been narrowing so dramatically, in the last 5-6 years, between the "high-end" and the "prosumer" gear that in another 5-6 years, I wonder if anyone will even know the difference.

[/i] is disappearing rapidly.
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No one has ever known the difference.

Chessrock, in the final analysis, the only ones really concerned about recording quality are those getting paid to record audio the audio and those paying for it to be recorded. The music listening public has never cared and will never care. What they buy is good music and thats it. They could care less about recording details.

You yourself admitted you could tell very little difference between some sample sounds recorded through a mackie preamp and those done with much more high end stuff. AKM converters have gotten so pristine and accurate, most people have a hard time distinguishing akm a/d conversion from that done with a lucid or an apoge. You might also remember a vocal sample where you were surprized at the lack of quality on a vocal track done with a $10K microphone.
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When we are talking purely about quality, there fails to be variability. Gear either does the job or it does not. Unfortunately, many prosumer units dont do the job, and even more unfortunate is that some expensive units dont do the job, or dont do it well enough to justify the cost. I have always been a big fan of the mackie and I have never been a fan of Avalon/focusrite. Even though focusrite is more expensive does not mean its better( a manley will always produce better results than a mackie anyday though). The pro studio has tons of combinations that they can use to get the "perfect" sound. The project studio hardly has options.

Also, as littledog said, when we expand the focus to include genres like classical, many project setups fall by the way side. How many project studio engineers can set up a jecklin disc ?

You also have to look at the whole chain as a whole. The dude who was recording through the $10000 mic was using a yamaha aw4416 portable unit. What the heck? When you consider the chain as a whole and the cumulative effects (of mic, pres, compressors, limiters, effects, equalizers, monitoring, room etc), then you start to see why the project studio simply cant compete with truly proffesional situations.
 
About the API's, just so you didn't misunderstand what Tex was saying: the $600 just buys you the power supply and rack, referred to as the "lunchbox". Everything (modules) you put in the lunchbox (preamps, eq's, compressors) costs you extra (i believe to the tune of $500-600 apiece.)

Tex, what other mic premaps do you have already? If this is going to be your main go-to preamp, you may want to reconsider. I'm not dissing the API's - they are wonderful and robust on many sources, but since so much music is vocal driven, a lot of times if people are going to buy just one good preamp to start with, they are going to want something that will work very well on a variety of vocals. I'm not sure the API is a really good choice for that. I like it a lot on various drums, drum overheads, and horns. And I've also used it on electric guitar, bass, and piano. But I find it a little dark for mnay vocals, especially if you are going for the sparkly sound that so much pop music demands.

The Great River NV or the Vintech 1272 give you 2 channels of, in my opinion, more useful "all-around" preamp for not much more than the price of one API 312 module with the lunchbox. Of course, if you've already got some slamming vocal preamps, than by all means, go for the API system! Check some of Dave Butler's sales on E-bay if you decide to go with the API.
 
Beathoven- Check out www.mercenary.com , www.brentaverill.com and Ebay.

You have to buy the $600 rack before you can use the modules. So you are looking at around a grand for your first purchase. Some places sell them rackmounted for a bit more.

The real value though is if you get the rack and fill it with modules. The total price is still pretty high but you can add on as needed and once you average out the cost of the rack over all the modules the per channel cost is pretty low.

Why spend $500 here and there on crap when you could be filling up a killer API rack that you could probably sell for what you put into it.

The GreatRiver pres seem to be the cheapest highend pre if you only want a stereo unit. Their most expensive unit is just under 2 grand and that is still about $3-500 less per channel than many of the other killer pres.
 
Littledog, just saw your post.

I was talking to Dave yesterday and he said they have some API pres with a newer jenson transformer that has a much more open sound than the traditional API's. I'm going to try both versions and see what I like. The cost per channel is drawing me too them and if I cant make those work I'm in the wrong business.

I'd love to have a dozen good pres but I'm just trying to put together a good core system right now. I'm still trying to decide if I want a console for sure. If not than I can blow more of my budget on pres.

I think the GreatRiver would definately be next on my list.
 
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