What's creating these sounds? Keyboards, modules, or something else?

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microchip

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I am in the process of creating ambient recordings. Most of these I want to contain very deep drone sounds and have long background sounds that almost have that 'machine' sound like a warped lawn mower running in the background.

What does everyone think or what is there that artists use to create these sounds?

I have tried taking my synth sounds and processing the hell out of them, but that doesn't quite do the job. And it seems that any musical devise doesn't quite to it.

So am I looking at the need to find non-musical sounds and then processing them?

Suggestions?
 
made by any modular synth out there.. novation synths, waldorf synths, access synths, kurzweil synths, jomox synths and korg synths.
 
Chriss said:
made by any modular synth out there.. novation synths, waldorf synths, access synths, kurzweil synths, jomox synths and korg synths.
Click to expand...

Hmmmm... There's just one synth in yer list that is trully modular, which is the Nord Modular from Access. And the micromodular. Which makes it 1.5. :D

Modular would mean that you can place the modules ad lib. The other synths do allow for sound creation, and all offer a few of the most common setups...

Look for the webpages of the manufactors and download demo's. They all have a different character to them...
 
Roel said:


Hmmmm... There's just one synth in yer list that is trully modular, which is the Nord Modular from Access. And the micromodular. Which makes it 1.5. :D

Modular would mean that you can place the modules ad lib. The other synths do allow for sound creation, and all offer a few of the most common setups...

Look for the webpages of the manufactors and download demo's. They all have a different character to them...
Click to expand...

:rolleyes: first off, Clavia produces the Nord Modular, not access .. second of all, the synthesis of the other synths is called analogue sound modeling.,. the novation supernova offers 90 routings just in the oscillator section.. that's mo' than enough.
A virtual modular system like the nord modular is something alse, and not one of my favorites btw.. and it can't really do anything noticeable the other ones can't do too, except change position of the filter in the system..
 
For truly wierd ambient sounds get a mic and just start recording anything. Then go into a good audio program like SonicFoundry or even CoolEdit and start tweaking.

Reverse the sound. Change the pitch drasticly. Add effects. Reverse again. Change pitch again. Cut it up and reassemble. Add distortion to certain parts of the sound to give it a pulse and rythm.

That is an example and there are many ways to do it. I have made cool ambient sounds from things as simple as a CD drive firing up or a telephone busy signal. Take snipits from CD's and mangle them until they sound unearthly.

A good audio editing program is the key.
 
Tex, I'm with you man it's really fun to just go and record/sample some weird sound you enjoy, import it into a good program and fuck it all up. I've recently been messing with the glowing sound that comes on when Win9x starts up and the Playstation 2's startup sounds.

Hey Chriss, you don't talk smack, I'm really impressed with your knowledge especially considering you're only a year older than me (I'm 20)! Jus' wondering but I own the Triton and have an ever growing wense that I'm going to outgrow it within the next few years, the sounds are slightly limited adn often kinda cheesy. I don't need a workstation/sequencer as PC/software is quite adequate, the sampler is nice would like to have an onboard one but not a necessity as there are others around, but, in your opinion (or anybody else's for that matter) should I:
a.) Keep the Triton, get all expansion boards, download all user sounds/programs off net and make a library, and just learn how to use that mother to it's optimum.
b.) Sell the shit on E-bay, get a Nova, Waldorff, Motif, or something that I can almost "trade" Triton for (although don't know Waldorff or Nova price ranges).
c.)other (explain)

I too am making ambient type stuff (a la The Orb, FSOL, Aphex Twin) so in similar predicament as microchip. Thanks alot for any ideas/thoughts in advance!



Laj
 
There are so many options there laj.. the Motif boards have way more phatt sounds and a better sampler.. it can also be expanded with AN200, DX200 and some other boards.. The AN200 is a very decent analogue sound modeling synth while the DX is an FM synthesis board.. both are quite limited in voices though (AN=5, DX=16) and are only one part multitimbral..
You'd also have to program the expansion boards from the motif like on the triton, or you can of course use a computer.. And the motif lacks knobs..

Personally i'd prefer simple taking an RS7000 + some Novation/Waldorf/similar synth..
The RS7000 got more knobs and easier editing, and it's got basically the same sounds and it's got the same sampler as the Motif stations.. + it's cheaper cause it cannot be expanded with those AN/DX/Piano boards which you would prolly wanna get in real desktop versions anyway...
'dis RS7000 baby will also come very handy if you suddently want to go for live performance.. like its predecessor, the RM1x, it's a great and innovative live tool..

I have more ideas, but question is, how important is the ROM based sound engine in your music?
 
Chriss,

Man, I wish you were my next door neighbor or somethin so I could take all yo knowledge. In any event I figure it might be best if I just tell you my setup/recording process and see if that sheds some light on the subject. I apologize in advance to microchip (it being his thread) and anybody else who doesn't like people taking over threads they didn't start or some shit like that, err.., yeah sorry.

Anyways, I run a PIII 833, 384Mb, 30G HD (Split in 3). I track using Cubase 5.0R6; make some beats using Fruity Loops; do wave editing with SF 5.0 and Wavelab; have Waves Native Gold Bundle, Restoration Bundle and a handful of other DirectX Plugs. Using an Audiophile 2496 soundcard. Mackie 1202 VLZ Mixer. Have TRITON - 61 Key Music Workstation Sampler, Korg Kaoss Pad, Two Tech 12's, Kaoss Mixer, Electribe EA1 and ES1, along with various old drum machines/sequencers that rarely see the light of day.

I am not a big fan of MIDI for a few reasons:
1.) I'm lazy and usually just fall asleep when trying to read up on it and don't have anybody to SHOW me.
2.) I can't stand tracks where the use of MIDI is really blatently obvious. Though I love Electronica, and am attempting to make it, I strive to give the listener the sense that it was played, not programed, I usually fail there but I try anyways.
Sooo, I usually start every by getting that backbone ambience, meaning those full warm modular synth sounds that the Triton sometimes lacks. I love knobs, I crave knobs, the Tritons knobs suck, IMO. Form there everything usually comes pretty easy, ie drum loops, general rythym sections, bass lines (which I'm starting to play myself/record as I've found that is the most surefire way to fat, warm bass lines), etc. So these sounds are the basis of my tunes, they are the MOST important aspect of my shit.

Ideally, I'd have a kick ass modular synth with tons of onboard fx, and a filter/fx controller with TONS of knobs for me, you suggested one to me in a similar thread once, I think it was a Waldorff product aroun 1200 bills. The Synth being basically the Triton WITHOUT the BS sequencer, which I don't need, or use for that matter, WITH ten times mor knobs to tweak, WITH considerably richer sounds, and WITH more fx.

Allright, so it's probably rather evident that I'm fairly new to all this stuff. I've been using the electribes, Cubase and FL for about two years now and am pretty comfortable with them. The Triton I've only had for about 4, 5 months now. Why am I bithcing about it already, well I'm not but it just seems to me that I should have a synth that I'm totally in love with, suits my music, learn it like it was my wife, and live happily together for a LONG time; I guess I see myself cheating on the Triton cause it's tits aren't big enough or somethin, ya know! So let's say I had $500 and could unload the Triton for another $1500 on e-bay, what's your move Chriss?


Laj

Again sorry for being such a Nazi here. I suck I know!
 
whooo, let's see... If i had the money, i'd prolly go right for the Novation Nova II keyboard.. Have regular synthesis and can at the same time (even same program) use 2*8 different ringmod/FM algorithms..
The vocoder is simply the best shit out there.. you won't find a better vocoder, ever, i think.. 42 bands.. mmmm.. yummy.. only spent a fewminutes with 'dat one but it was quite obviously the best vocoder i've ever heard.. i suppose that'd come in handy with ambient..
It's got all the regular filters you could ever need.. 12,18 and 24 dB/oct in lowpass, bandpass and highpass.. and then it's got 9 extra formant filters.. that's the same filters as on my own synth (supernova) so i can definitely wouch for those.. The filters are not as square and straight as you might be used to.. they have a very warm analogue sound and have an overdrive control that makes the filter unstable so you can get some totally spot-on tb303 emulation.
It's got 6 parts, which should be quite sufficient when you have all that other gear..

Then theres the oscillators.. up to 6 of them per voice, + 2 independant ring mods/FM generators pervoice and a noise generator..
that's 9 tone generators per voice..
then you have yo' 3 independant Sync oscillators per voice, can be tuned and set to keyfollow and be modulated by all lfos/envelopes.. i.e. some really weird sounds are possible here..

You also have a soften effect for each oscillator which can turn a square osc into a sine one.. and don't fuhget yo' pulse width..

All these things can be modulated by all lfos and envelope and all at different depths if you like.. pretty neat..

then you have sync skew and formant with for each oscillator which is something other synth manufacturers must have forgotten exists. (you can create the phattest sounds using sync skew and a square oscillator)

You can set the oscillators to Freewheeling or KeySync (called "Percussive" and "Ensemble").. this means that you can run the oscillators with their own timing like on real analogue synths or you can Keysync them to make more punchy basslines..
You also have unison and a VCO emulator which makes the pitch of the oscillators unstable like on analogue synths..

The envelopes can be looped or timed and envelope 3 can at the same time control the speed of lfo1..

The frequency range is like the waldorf synths at 42khz while access, clavia, and similar run at 30khz..

the part section is also mad.. you can layer the parts in groups with different layering and fade between them via velocity or key position at different depths and at different bands.. yo..
And the apeggiator is simply neato.. when i don't know what to do next in a track i just get the ol' arpeggiator out and in 10 minutes i'll have an idea of what i want..

Effects
You mentioned that effects was important..
well, it has got all the effects you want.. Each of the 6 parts have it's totally own set of effects, and in a Performance you can choose to use each programs own effects or store a new effect setup per part with the performance..
Each part have got it's own delay, reverb, auto panning/temolo, distortion, flanger/phaser/chorus/4*chorus(PHAAAAATTTT!!!!!)/ensemble, EQ and comb filter (can be synced to an lfo).. the comb filter is a way of making polyphonic flanger/phaser sounds.. really cool fukker... The reverb includes all the usual ones + gated reversed, gated up/down and shit like that.. on those, the timing is set by an Early reference level while the length is set by the decay..

and i'm still missing alot here.. basically this synth will do all but cook yo' dinner..

samplerAs for what sampler module to get then? Well, i'd say simply get yo'self an E-MU ESI2000 sampler with or without the effects expansion (it's got scsi so you can use yo' computers fx till you get arsed yo'self to buy the effects option).. you'd have a way better sampler than the tritons and it's expandable to 128 megs.. Killer sampler..
The motifs/rs7000/triton ain't nutn but sequencers with rom sounds and samplers on anyway.. so why not just cut what you don't need (sequencer and prolly most of the sounds too, which you can get on sample cd-rom anyway) and take a plain sampler? And even cooler: it's got more knobs and buttons than the Triton. (and better filters)

The Nova II keyboard got a fukkin' heap of knobs and buttons, all send midi data of course..
 
as for the keyboard on the Nova II : i like it better than the triton keyboard.. it's kind of a mix between weighted and regular midi key action..
 
oh.. and you can run the effects totally wet on the nova II(ie.. no actual sound, just the effects.. reverb, chorus and shit in 23 different configurations)

like.. one cool thing could be to take a bass drum, run it through a gated reversed reverb and then a delay.. on other synths you would simply get the reverb and then the delay from the bass drum..
on the nova you can change how the effects are setup from R+C+D (reverb+chorus+delay) into cool configurations like R>[D+C] (reverb into delay and reverb into chorus)

by setting that bass drum up in the R>[D+C] configuration, you'd get the reversed reverb sound in a delay instead of just the reverb sound and then the bass drum in its delay. But : the first initial reverb sound can be tampered with by the chorus to sound different, while the delayed sound will have the regular reverb sound..
pretty neat, eh? It's like having a heap of effects and a patch bay.
 
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Chriss---------->The Shit--------->Synthesizer Maaasta


Thanks a fuckin TON man!!!!!


Laj
 
Oh and Chriss, where you get all your synth knowledge anyways? Any books, sites, etc. in particular? This is stuff I crave to know, hit me up, it's sooooo appreciated.

Yeah and haven't seen any o' your tracks around here, where can I check 'em out, record shop? What Label?


Laj
 
I've been testing and demoing synthesizers in a synth shop in a town 1½ hours away.. sometimes they need people to show off the equipment, and then they let me play with the stuff all day long :) Only thing i haven't really bothered getting into is FM synthesis..
By now i can basically program any synth i lay my hands on and make a phatt program in a few secs.. hehehe.. that's fun when you wanna show off to other producers..

I'm not released yet, but i'm talking with Superstition Germany on a regular basis, and we're gonna work something out when i've completed 1 more track and 2 remixes.. that's hopefully done in 2-3 weeks.. it's still a pain to wait ..
 
Hey well good luck man and if you ever come across any informative sites/books hit me up, or if you get a record out there or start giggin let me know and I'll throw you my support ($$, ha), or if your in NW US you got a plug.


Laj
 
If you like knobs then stock up on old guitar effects stomp boxes. You can do amazing ambient sounds with a bunch of pedals and you have real time control.

You dont even need an instrument. Just create a feedback loop with a distortion in the beginning and the noise will take over. Add flange and delay and season to taste.
 
Cool idea Tex. I'm completely ignorant in terms of what would be a valid/useful box, have any ideas? Can you find those at pawn shops sometimes, if not where's the best place to find 'em cheap?

Laj
 
The Boss Distortion, Flanger, Delay, and EQ pedals are all cool. Hook up a mic, guitar, keyboard or bass and go to town.

You can change the delay times, modulation, use the EQ as a real time filter. You wont have any fancy sync temp to midi so you have to be carefull rythmicly. No preset patches either. It's all what you see on the dials.

I dont know what they go for used but new they were less then $150 each as a I recall. You can probably score some 80's ones pretty cheap. I would think $50 would be expensive but I dont know what the demand is for them.

I think a lot of the crazy Radio Head stuff is done using pedals. A lot of trance and techno guys use them for bass and pad sounds.

You should be able to find them at a lot of pawn shops and music stores.
 
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