what would you do?

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studioman

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i will be building a studio in the near future and want to hear what some of you guys would suggest doing with the budget if you had it.

budget=$200,000

first off,hear is a list of the equipment ive come up with

control room equipment:
2 mix24 16 focusrite preamp boards
3 888 interfaces
1 apogee 8000 interface
motor mix or hui or similar
mac g4 top of line
any suggestions on plugins?
all the other protools goodies
mackie hr-24's
tannoy active
4 adats for compatability issues
tascam da 78 hr dat recorder

midi production room equipment:
mpc3000
korg triton
kurzweil k62600rs
roland xv-5080 module
roland jv-1080 module
waldorf q rack
nord micro modular
emu virtuoso 2000
mo phatt
planet earth
9112 b -3
korg karma
yamaha cs6x synth
mac g4
midisport 8x8
midisport 8x8
mackie 32x8 with meter bridge
digidesign 001 for quick mixes
2 technic s-1200 turntables
roland dj-2000 mixer
mackie hr-24s

microphone cabinet:
2 neumann U-89's
3 akg 414-btII's
3 sennheiser 421's
5 sm-57's
2 sm-58's
1 beta 57/58
2 shure sm 81's
ANY OTHER MICS YOU'D SUGGEST ?

furniture:
mixing desk ?????
racks ???????
leather couch for lobby
office chairs

studio design:
this is where im lost
i will need a main control room
a main recording room
a vocal booth
a midi room
who do i hire to do construction?
what will it cost,and with what materials?
HOW MANY SQUARE FEET DO I NEED?




i am anxious to see what your suggestions are.Fell free to critique any part of my setup,or/and add your own suggestions on gear that is "must have"

also any suggestions on how you would most efficiently link the midi room to the protools setup for 32 track seperate track recording.......patch bays etc????

btw....i know i didnt come anywhere near 200000 worth of equipment but you were figuring other costs of running the buisness

any input at all towards any aspect of building/owning and operating a commercial studio will be much appreciated.

thank you
 
That is about a million questions in one foul swoop.

With all due respect, your equipment list does not make sence, as you are missing many items that would make it all work together, and duplicate many other things.

On top of that, first you need to aquire a suitable space, then you can start planning what and how to build.

I would suggest that you start with reading some good books on running a commercial studio.
 
building

I really cant emphasise the importance of the building itself over the equipment inside it.

You can have all the equipment in the world, but if you dont have a good balanced sound within the studio, you really are shooting yourself in the foot.

There is a website (which everyone else knows of, but I cant remember) which gives examples of other peoples studios, and the typical size required. But, also bear in mind, that size isnt everything (cue Dr Ruth Westimer)

What do you want to record there? If It's a case of classical music and choirs etc.... then size is vital, if it's a case of a 6 peice band, then a live room of about 20ft x 20ft would fit all of your musicians.

Just a few ideas, the guy to talk to is John Sayers....

:)

regards

Rochey
 
Just a bit of advice from a pro-studio owner.... Your really going to sink $200,000 into a studio?...I wouldn't advise it... The days of most studios being profitable are lost, unless you have built up an amazing list of clientelle. I go through Dryspells with mine, where I almost have to record for free, just so I can keep my gears greased. My studio cost a total of $60,000 and I get great "pro-sound" results.... My basesment is totally finished, and converted into a studio..(It's a brand new house with 8 ft basement ceilings... I have a Mackie 32/8 with 3 adats, and a few effects units, a good compressor, a nice condensor mic.... and a few other things, and thats my set up....You can see pics, using my "website" link at the very bottom of this post....

Hope this helps in some small way
 
thank you for the input everyone.

what we plan to have is a facility available for the useage of recording bands,vocals,pre production of hiphop/electronic music,and also post production.

we do not plan to put 200,000 towards equipment,only 100,000-125,000

the rest goes for the costs of running the buisness such as accountants,and advertising,etc,etc

we all have backrounds in marketing and have are advertising and all that thought out.
 
thats a low blow

that was really harsh man... :D

But, it's a valid point, wouldnt it be better to invest some time in other studios first, before jumping in at the deep end?

Spend some time playing with equipment etc, and actually listening to what the old guy has to say, they know stuff manuals never tell you.

regards

Rochey

btw- good luck! Wish I had $200! not $200,000

:)
 
I think we are in danger here of disillusioning a future engineer / studio owner.................... We must sound like a bunch of (*%&^$ to him.

Don't take it hard studioman, there are some people here who know the economics of running a studio. It seems negative, but there is good intentions behind it. Let me point out some facts:

1. If you have money to invest and look at it purely from a commercial objective, a recording studio is not a good investment compared to most commercial enterprises, it requires continuing investment, profit margins are low, and income not guaranteed.

2. A very high percentage of studios only exist by the grace of its patrons, whom have other income and can support the studio - just 'coz they love it.

3. The place. A commercial studio needs a home, building a studio is expensive, the studio's character and sound are reliant on design and building. Something you really need to consider - not many studios have ever moved and continued business successfully. Do you own the place? Fine, you know where you are going to be for a long time (if your business works). Do you lease? Better make sure its a very long term lease. Rent? Forget it!.
Note: Just to illustrate this, a friend of mine owns a reasonably well know commercial studio, his lease runs out in 8 years time, and he knows it will not be renewed. This is stopping him already, now, from making new capital investments in his business, as he would not be able to get a return on his investments.

4. Look at the stories behind successful commercial studios and you will see a common pattern emerge, including one or a combination of the following:
- The owner, or a partner, is a highly regarded and in-demand engineer or producer, capable of bringing in a continuing flow of paying clients.
- The project is directly owned, or funded by, a large commercial enterprise, like a record company, a label, a production company etc. This used to be the major kind of large commercial facility ownership, until the labels discovered that the return on investment they derived from their studio ownership was well below that of their core business, after that 'discovery' the vast majority relinquished their interests (which should tell you a lot).
- The owner is a successful artist, using the studio to record his / her own work, and using it as a tax write off, or a hobby.

Returning to your questions - I ascertained from your initial post that you were very young and enthusiastic, which is great. But, from your equipment list.............. no experience in recording and a lack of knowledge of the process, especially in commercial recording. This is not a put-down, just fact. The list of equipment you provided would never attract sufficient clients of a sufficient level to provide you with a return on your investments, let alone pay for your partner(s) and your living expenses.

I am in the process of building my and my partner's own studio at the moment. I started end July last year, it will be finished end July this year (well .... the first part). I've been working on it full time, putting in "music business hours", meaning 6 to 7 days a week, 12 hours a day or more. I worked out that, by the time I am finished with stage I and can start recording again, doing it myself will have saved us around $130.000,00 of the construction bill. I have also done the architectural, structural and acoustic design myself, which has saved us another $32.000,00
I have been in the music industry since I was 15 and always wanted "my own place". All the above will tell you why I am building it now, over 30 years later. I am at a point where I can choose who to work with, I have my own projects and I know our new place is of such a quality that it will attract many people, who will just want to come there because its a technically excellent, acoustically brilliant place in an inspiring environment. If any of those elements had been missing - forget it, it would have stayed a dream.

My advise to you, and many others like you who are dead keen to own a commercial studio:
- Decide what you want to do with your life. Do you want to be a musician? A recording engineer? A producer? Or a studio owner? They are different things!
- Only if you can say with 100% confidence "I want to own a commercial studio", start planning a way to get there.
- The way to get there is by becoming successful at what you do, become a wanted and respected engineer and / or producer, ensure that people will want to come to you to record, ensure you gain loads of experience (including in configuring recording systems). I can assure you - getting there will keep you to busy to even think about owning anything but a good suitcase.

If the above advise doesn't suit you, and you still feel a desperate urge to own knobs-and-buttons - start small, build a small home studio, fund it with other work, record yourself and your friends, if it goes well charge them something and put the money aside to build it up bit-by-bit.

I hope you find the above to be constructive, as I am not saying all this to discourage you Like everything else in life, if you really want it, you'll do whatever it takes and you will be successful.
 
Last edited:
sjoko2:

this is the kind of critisism i am looking for....thank you.I am young,and inexeperienced when it comes to COMMERCIAL RECORDING STUDIO'S,and theyre equipment since all i have dealt with is smaller scale 24 track studios like ones found here in sacramento.

i do however have a love for the music industry and recording.i have been recording music for 2 years and am well on my way to a degree in audio.However the most important power i possess is my LOVE for the buisness,and drive to succeed which will infact take me to a carreer in audio.

i do own a home studio and i have several projects i am working on.

and as far as clientelle,i have connections with so many different scenes of music its ridiculous

to wrap things up,i know that i am not ready to open up a studio.i didnt mean to give the wrong impression.....however i do beleive that within a years time we (myself an associates)will be ready to do so
 
That's cool, the right attitude. Just keep at it and keep learning.
I don't think you're to far from me, so when our new place is ready, come and hang out for a long weekend if you like.
 
>i will be building a studio in the near future and
>want to hear what some of you guys would suggest
>doing with the budget if you had it.

>budget=$200,000

I must first admire your enthusiam. Its great to see someone so young have such lofty aspirations. And not to cut the wind from your sails, but I will share some thoughts and experience I have running a semi-pro studio over the years (on and off).

First, I looked through your equipment list, in a lot of cases, good choice. Protools has more or less become the standard in which pro-class studios run under these days, probably due to their marketing efforts. Anyway, I wouldn't go overboard with the midi synth gear, because the stuff becomes outdated the minute you see the annoucement from the vendor :)

Anyway, here goes:

1. Business Plan. Regardless of the business you want to be in, you need a solid, verified business plan. List out all the costs you forsee. Research potential facilities, whether it be your basement, a converted house, a warehouse, retail space in a mall, etc. Research it, compare prices, investigate zoning laws/rules, and document your findings. Have your partners (if any) do the same, and possibly double check your efforts (and you double check theirs). Then, create a project plan of timeframes from facility acquisition to "grand opening" signs. Form relationships with construction companies that have experience making studios. Just because company "A" knows how to apply glue on the walls and stick Aurelex foam on, doesn't mean they do this with any thought or knowledge. *I* could glue foam on the wall haphazzardly :)

2. Facility.

Before you purchase one thing (even light bulbs), select, design, then aquire the facility. If you are located near a major city, or within city limits, space costs will be much higher than if you are rural. Of course, the more rural you are, the less clients you have. Mariah Carey doesn't record at "Bob's Midi Farm" in Montana :). Once you have selected your space, and its within your business plan's budgetary goals, you can then have the facility designed out based on the available space. Where will the control room be? Center? Will there be one live room, or three? How many sound booths? Will the midi gear be in the control room (in a larger facility, I'd say no - keep the soda out of the control room!). What construction method will you use? Seperate rooms isolated by air traps? Or is it small enough to force shared walls, staggered studs or not? How many dead rooms? How many outlets? Outlets are cheap, but electricians are not. Also, how much of the construction can you do yourself? Depending on your facility's location, you may be required to use union labor for certain things. Here in NYC, we have pipefitter unions (heating and HVAC), plumbing unions, sheet rock unions, electrical unions, and the list goes on. This gets expensive quickly. How about parking? Do you need parking, or are you near mass transit?

3. Clientele types.

I'm sure you realize you can't be all things to all people. Obviously a bedroom or small loft studio can't record 20 piece brass bands, and it would be expensive for a solo artist to record in a studio that has 5 sound booths, two control rooms, and four live rooms. Obviously your facility will dictate the size of your studio, and of course, the architect's design might enable more functionality in less space. One example is a control room that can service two live rooms. Two consoles, two engineers, for especially busy days. Anyway, are you going after flagship performers such as Madonna, Mariah Carey, Def Leppard, Bon Jovi? or are you planning on offering demo CD/Tape mastering services? The available clientele and their needs are primarily what will dictate the space, facility, organization and design of your studio.

Are you going to record superstars? Starving metal bands? Solitary performers who have no musical backup? Songwriters? Cello players?

4. Operation costs.

If you have the clientele/business growth to support an internal accounting function, great. More than likely, you will outsource that, or do it yourself, and seek advice during tax time. Also, consider heating and cooling as a major part of your studio. Performers do much better in a climate controlled environment than if its blazing hot from the facility baking in the sun. Of course, the larger the facility, the significantly more heat/cooling you will need to make the place comfortable and condusive to creativity and expression. Electricity, HVAC, plumbing, water, sewer all should be taken into consideration when choosing a facility and writing a business plan. You'll also find that location determines (and varies) a lot of these costs. Some towns for example in Upstate NY are centrically labeled. For example, "Harriman NY" is a vast space. "Village of Harriman" is located within "Harriman", and this municipality charges more in taxes because there are more advanced services such as public sewer, public septic, public this, public that. Salaries are also a consideration. Will you be mixing and producing your client's materials? If you have that ability and recognition, thats fantastic. if you do not, well, these functions need to be hired out. For larger labels they usually walk in with their own engineer, producer, and even free-lance performers to provide backup to the recording artist. If you deal with smaller labels, you might have to provide this function. This costs more. You have to pay these people :)

>studio design: this is where im lost
>i will need a main control room
>a main recording room
>a vocal booth
>a midi room

Not unreasonable.

>who do i hire to do construction?
>what will it cost,and with what materials?
>HOW MANY SQUARE FEET DO I NEED?

To construct a studio, you have three choices:

1. Design, and build, yourself. Use internet resources, copy another design, and tune the rooms with foam and reflective materials.

2. Hire a sound-oriented Architect, and build the rooms yourself based on the paid-for blueprints and designs.

3. Outsource the whole thing.

I listed them in cost order, lowest to highest, but the last choice gives you a fair chance at getting the rooms acoustically right, though sad to say, not always.

>also any suggestions on how you would most
>efficiently link the midi room to the protools
>setup for 32 track seperate track recording
>.......patch bays etc????

Yes, and lots of them. Same for audio. Label every jack clearly and precisely. Saves time later on when trying to patch things "funky" for a strange request.

>commercial enterprises, it requires continuing
>investment, profit margins are low, and income
>not guaranteed.

I will confirm this. In my immediate area (nice upscale NJ neighborhood, 35 minutes from NYC) there are five recording studios that I have found within a 10 minute drive from my house. The most expensive one charges $55 an hour including the engineer, and the least expensive one is "in a guy's house" and charges $35 an hour, including his engineering abilities. These are not significant dollars considering the investment. Larger studios recover some of their physical costs by having their control room service multiple live rooms, thus able to have multiple performers record simultaniously. While each band/performer would require their own engineer, a single room & producer can manage both projects if you are that lucky.

>whom have other income and can support
>the studio - just 'coz they love it.

Yes, this is done through the owner's flexibility, charm, comfort level with the staff and facility, and most important, quality of the final recording.

>Decide what you want to do with your life.
>Do you want to be a musician? A recording
>engineer? A producer? Or a studio owner?
>They are different things!

They are absolutely different things, with different ability/skillsets associated with each "function". In my own case, I'm a hobby musician who likes to write, play, and record for my own entertainment. I have rented out my "semi-pro" studio to others in the past as a means of aquiring new equipment that I will not purchase out of pocket - but not as a means of surviving financially. I've always had a "real job" so to speak. I would agree with your statements to our enthusiastic friend, to make this decision now, and not flutter between them later on.

I hope I've added value to the conversation.

Frederic
 
yes frederick,your post was golden

my problem is that i want to do it all

producer/songwriter/musician/vocalist/engineer(recording and mixing)/record company owner/studio owner

i love music and i love money

right now i work part time in marketing and make about 1500 a week.I still live at home so i have lots of money to play with and i dont blow my money on senseless shit,i save it.

what i am going to do first is get my label up and running(underground hip hop)..build some fanbase,build clout,make more connections,etc.By this time hopefully i wont even have to rely on the studio as a source of income but as a place to gather and record projects at.......but in the mean time record albums for other local indy record labels.

i would also like to attract some more established clientelle but am not sure what kind of equipment is needed to do so.
 
my problem is that i want to do it all

Well. Music studios are like race cars. How fast can you afford to go? Its never a question of ability, you can always hire someone.

dont blow my money on senseless shit,i save it.

Isn't all "shit" senseless? :D

record projects at.......but in the mean time record albums for other local indy record labels.

SOunds reasonable. However, my prior suggestion of drawing out your business plan is essential. Trust me!

am not sure what kind of equipment is needed to do so.

While a 12' row of faders is impressive, you simply need quality gear and a comfortable recording/lounge area.
 
mx_mx said:
How'd you dig this one up?

I periodically browse through Frederic's past posts on studio upstart.... He's one of the best posting entities we have, in my opinion....

Fredric, you're the man! Glad to have you around! :D
 
I'm flattered, thank you.

But I haven't posted very much lately... I'm essentially "buried' :(
 
frederic said:
I'm flattered, thank you.

But I haven't posted very much lately... I'm essentially "buried' :(
That's why you're being brought back to life
 
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