What would you do......

Warhead said:
Has your 10 year old Onyx expired already? I'm hoping you must be talking from experience.

War
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First of all, I wasn't referring to the Wackie build quality (which is mediocre at best), I was referring to the fact that in 10 years time the guy is going to be using something far above a 500.00 Wackie desk.

Secondly, the fact that you sell Wackies for a living in your shop hasn't colored your opinion at all now has it? :rolleyes:

No, no bias here at all, of course not....

No really...

No bias...

Really...

:rolleyes:
 
Sir Dingo said:
Secondly, the fact that you sell Wackies for a living in your shop hasn't colored your opinion at all now has it? :rolleyes:
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Hmmm....well I've always said I thought the VLZ preamps SUCK and those are Mackie...so yeah I guess I'm just blindly ass-kissing and straight up lying so somebody will buy something from me.

Dude, you roll in and make a statement about "10 years" that made no sense other than to make predictions and slam a product you may not have even used. And if you have used it and didn't like it, that's fine with me! But Sytek isn't exactly a "value" when the price difference of $110 nets you very good sounding Onyx preamps (do a search, I'm not lying apparently as others feel the same...not even the same sound as the VLZ) converters, D.I. and an M/S decoder.

And I've used both of those pieces and yes, my buddy's Sytek has failed over time. The statement you made just hit me wrong and like any other forum member I responded with what I thought made sense based on info I have. The Onyx preamps are not needing to be shat on...the VLZ are!

War
 
chadsxe said:
Oh don't take me wrong I by no means think 1,500 is going to get me anywere close. I just want to make the best possible upgrade for the money I can at this moment.

The more and more I think about it the more and more I am leaning to buying a good pair of OH's.
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Don't buy, rent the condenser mics. Unless you have a high ceiling in your drum room an idiot drummer (an oxymoron) will, at some point, whack one and kill it. If not a direct hit, then a stick will fly and smack it. Have bands rent the mics you specify and bring them so they are responsible for them. Spend your cash on an API 200 or 500 frame and a pre or DI module. Over time, fill the rest of the available slots with additional pres, EQs, comps and the like. You will not regret the decision and if you need to sell, they will go quickly and not lose money.
 
War,

I think it's probably just going to take some time before people start warming up to the Onyx.

I haven't worked with them extensively as you have, but I, too, would approach them with extreme caution. What I'm hearing right now is deja vu all over again from when the XDR mic pres in their VLZ series first came out. All kinds of crazy hype going on everywhere. It was just impossible to separate fact form fiction, as professionals were being paid left and right to endorse the product.

It got so bad, that comparisons were being drawn to thousand-dollar mic pres, etc. A tactic I am again hearing reiterated all over again with the Onyx. It wasn't until all of the hooplah cooled off a year or so later that we began to get a more realistic picture of just what the Mackie boards brought to the table.

Given their history, I think it's only natural that a lot of folks approach these things with equal parts caution and skepticism. I would think it wise. Syteks, on the other hand, have already been through the test. We all know what they can do by now, and what to expect for the most part.
 
chessrock said:
War,

I think it's probably just going to take some time before people start warming up to the Onyx.

"I haven't worked with them extensively as you have, but I, too, would approach them with extreme caution. What I'm hearing right now is deja vu all over again from when the XDR mic pres in their VLZ series first came out. All kinds of crazy hype going on everywhere......"


So, I guess that if you got a VLZpro, a DMP3, some studio projects mics and an RNC you could kick the butt of million dollar studios?
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Excellent thread

chadsxe,

Just out of curiousity, are you recording bands in your own space, or are you doing mostly remote (location) recording? If it's remote, is it mostly live club gigs, or are you just schlepping your stuff to where they practice? If it's in your space, are you doing it mostly live, or are you doing individual tracks, or some combination thereof? While I would not presume to have the knowledge to dispute any of the suggestions made so far, I would think that if you are recording a variety of different bands/artists, you surely would benefit the most from having at least a second vocal mic.

From a 'career' perspective, you may be judged by your ability to record drums, but I would assume mostly only by other engineers/producers and drummers. If you're looking to get a job in a pro studio, or get freelance work from some producers, then I can see the point. Most listeners, on the other hand, pay attention primarily to the vocals first, then the guitars. As the driving force/leader of most bands is the singer/guitarist, that's what they are paying the most attention to also. It's the old 'more me' routine. The drummer is usually the one with the least say in anything. I'm not saying that to slam drummers, BTW, it's just an unfortunate fact of life. Think of almost any big national act, and figure out who's calling the shots musically.

I'm probably not saying this right, and I will probably be misconstrued yet again. I'm not disagreeing with what anyone else has said so far, I guess I'm just saying dont forget about the vocals and guitars.

Also, can you expound a little more on what you think the Grace brings to the table that the DMP3 doesn't? Can you compare how the 57 sounds on each? And when you say the Grace is a great DI, is that bass, guitar, or both?

And Wade, what vocals would you use the RNC on, and what ones would you not?
 
Well the DMP3 is good for what it is. I will admit when I first got it I was very pleased with it. I think it's great for someone starting out or recording for there own pleasure.

The Grace to me was a lot more clearer. It added a sizzle to the top end that the DMP3 does not have. Come to think of it this is not always a good thing. For example the most recent project I did was Metal. To make a long story short the guitars ended up being to sharp in the highs. I might have been better of using the DMP3. Eaither way the Grace is great for getting what I hear and nothing else tracked. It adds no color to the sound at all. The DMP3 seems a little bit more warmer. Almost in a box kind of sound. Ehhh it is so hard trying to put this into words.
 
Chess, I hear ya man! All I'm saying is the "boutique" statement is marketing hype but the preamps stand up very well to Sytek and others. I've mostly used them on drums (I have some clips I could extract from an ongoing project and post) and they sound tight and focused. There is no brittle high end, there is no lacking bottom, they sound right.

Of course it will take time for the real word on these boards to spread, and nobody's going to throw out their Neve when they hear them either. It's just a great mixer and shouldn't be so easily discounted, not for quality of build or sound issues. If they didn't weigh so damn much I might send you mine to hear... :D

And this is not a continuance of my response to Sir Dingo, just wanted to hop back in since you addressed me on this. I mean no disrespect or egging on to no one.

Acorec, throw in a Behringer B1 mic and you just might beat them...

War
 
chad

OK, so is the difference really noticable using the 57, or do you have to use the LCD to hear it? How did you mic the metal guitars?
 
Cardioidpotent said:
OK, so is the difference really noticable using the 57, or do you have to use the LCD to hear it? How did you mic the metal guitars?
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No LCD I mixed it with a 57. I would not blame the Grace 101 for my Hi problems. It was more my fault for not setting the amp up the way I wanted to. I was just saying that given the exact same situation it might have worked out better with the DMP3, but then again maybe not. :)
 
chadsxe said:
Warhead or who ever?

Are the pres in the Onyx mixers the same as the ones in the ONYX 800R (8 in a rack). If so, can anyone explain the justification of ONYX 800R being $200 more then the ONYX 1620 which also has 8 pres.
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Yes, they are the same preamps. The 800R has 8 digital to analog converters that run from 44.1 to 192k sampling rate at 24 bit depth. The 800R also possesses an M/S decoder on channels one and two. Channels one and two also offer variable impedence at the input to offer additional matching capabilities with your mic collection.

War
 
Warhead said:
Yes, they are the same preamps. The 800R has 8 digital to analog converters that run from 44.1 to 192k sampling rate at 24 bit depth. The 800R also possesses an M/S decoder on channels one and two. Channels one and two also offer variable impedence at the input to offer additional matching capabilities with your mic collection.

War
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O.k. if there is one question I have been avoiding asking at the risk of sounding stupid it is this...

What would be the purpose of the 800R A/D converters to me seeing as I already have them in my Delta 1010? :( Also, what is a M/S decoder?
 
The converters would be great for someone who doesn't have them, for you I wouldn't say it's a huge deal. The 1010 is limited to 96k I believe, the Mackie will run up to 192k. I personally record at 44.1/24 bit.

M/S or "mid side" is a technique where a figure 8 mic and a cardioid mic are used to record from a coincident position, the cardioid mic pointed directly at the source ("mid") and the figure 8 being the "sides". The decoding process is essentially sending the cardioid mic signal centered in the two channels, then a "+" or positive figure 8 signal is sent to the left channel while a "-" or negative figure 8 signal is sent to the right. You can then adjust the amount of stereo width by simply adjusting the volume of the side or mid mics. The phase differences blended with the center mic are cancelling out the sound received on the other side of the capsule to create the stereo image (in other words what you have left after cancellation is what accents left and right placement in the stereo field).

I hope that makes sense, I'm re-reading it and it looks OK... ;)

M/S is virtually 100% mono compatible when done correctly, and can reproduce a stereo signal very very well.

War
 
chadsxe said:
O.k. if there is one question I have been avoiding asking at the risk of sounding stupid it is this...
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Also regarding this statement...these boards help all of us learn so I wouldn't ever feel stupid asking a question like that. We can only learn by asking questions, observing others and making mistakes.

War
 
Warhead said:
The converters would be great for someone who doesn't have them, for you I wouldn't say it's a huge deal. The 1010 is limited to 96k I believe, the Mackie will run up to 192k. I personally record at 44.1/24 bit.

War
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So I am guessing I would be paying anywere from $100 to $150 for converters I would not need. The RME octpre seems like it would be better suited for my needs.
 
It's not a waste if they sound better than your 1010, but I don't know that for sure. I've never actually compared the RME to the Mackie 800R preamps so it's a toss up there. I don't see why the RME would be a bad choice.

War
 
Another question.....

The only way to use the A/D converters in the ONYX would be by getting a new sound card to except them, correct? After looking at this picture ONYX I have no clue how I would hook it up to this 1010
 
Warhead said:
Hi. A DB25 to TRS 1/4" cable is all that is needed.

War
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Warhead...

Thanks for all the info, and I am sorry to be pain. One more queation though. If I am coming out of the the ONYX with a DB25 to TRS 1/4" going into my my DELTA, I am guessing that there would be two stages of converts for the audio to pass through (ONYX then DELTA). Is this correct? Does that lead to any loss?
 
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