What would YOU do? Real world scenario...

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CMEZ

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Some of this scenario is mics and placement, some other gear, but here's the problem, the tools you have to work with, and the room you're working in. This is a real world challenge facing yours truly this week as I begin recording.

You're recording set-up allows for 8 channels of simultaneous recording. You have 4 channels with which to record drums. The rest of the available channels are taken up by bass, 2 guitars, and vox. Here are your available microphones:

Two Rode NT5's
Two Neumann TLM 103's
One Rode NTK
One Shure KSM 44
One Shure KSM 32
Four SM 57's
One AKG D112
Two SM 58's
One Beta 58

The room is 16X28 with a 4 foot square cut-out at one end (bathroom). 12 foot ceilings, old plaster walls. Tile floors (90% carpeted, however). It's a pretty live room, but not in an unpleasing way.

So those are your mics; that's your room. I've got some good preamps and compressors. What would you use where and why?

Thought it might be fun for folks to get in on a real-world, as it happens scenario and I'll update stuff as I go, if you're interested in tracking the progress.

The band is called Pendergast, and if you're interested, you might hop over to http://www.pendergastkc.com. There are three songs listed on the media page. (Now, I didn't record those-Lou Whitney did. That was a one day demo session w/no overdubs all live to tape except vocals).

Anyways, if anybody thinks it might be interesting to weigh in and see how things progress, post here. Project starts tomorrow and will run most of the month and into April.

Chris
 
OH L and OH R -- Rode NT5
Kick -- D112
Snare -- 57


Guitar1 -- Shure ksm32
Guitar2 -- ksm44
Bass -- Direct


Vox -- Whatever sounds best after careful audition. If it winds up being either the ksm32 or 44, then substitute either the NTK or sm57 on the guitar amp.


Why? Because I like the sound I get on drum overheads w/ small diaph. condensers. Just tends to be a little more accurate and neutral. And the d112 seems to be a popular choice for kick. :D Why argue with what works? Ditto for the 57 on snare. I chose the ksm32 on guitar simply because it's such a nice mic you really should use it on something. :D Ditto, pretty much, for the ksm44. I like the sound of large-diaphragm condensers on guitar amps -- a lot. I think it's a great match.

Going direct on bass always tends to be easier and just sounds better. I don't get as much of the "really low lows" when I mic a bass amp. Micing the amp is only good when I want "that" sound, which is very rarely.

The vocals are the most important track -- use what sounds best, which could be almost any of the condensers you mentioned.
 
tho there are only 8 channels available as I/O to the recording device, are there more available on a mixer somewhere?
 
I'm about the same as Chessrock, but I'd put SM57 on guitar, use the Neumanns for overheads, and use NTK for vox.-Richie
 
Neumanns for overheads, SM57 on guitar, NTK for vox, Otherwise, same as Chessrock.-Richie
 
Can we make the assumption of only using the compressors (and EQ?) later. Routing options would be nice as well - what mixer and recording medium are we using? Are overdubs possible? Bouncing?

Assuming 8 tracks, in a "live" setup:


Drums:

Overheads: NT 5s. If those suck try the Neumanns. If those suck get creative - first thing I would try is the KSM 32 on one side and the 44 on the other. Position as necessary.
Snare: 57 or beta 58. No questions there, for me. Position so where it sounds good and check for phasing with overheads.
Bass Drum: Either the D112 or the KSM 32 - I like the mix of the 2, but either one is useable on bass drum. If the 32 isn't left over, all instruments considered, the D112 will work. Position as necessary and check for phasing with overheads.

Guitars:

Rhythm = 57. On or near the grill.
Lead = either KSM 32 or 44. My 32 rocks on guitars, clean or dirty. Just be sure to roll off the lows. Put it near the grill and back it off until you find the sweet spot.

Vox:

Whichever mic you have listed (and leftover) that works best. Going off my first recommendations, I'd try the TLM first, then the 44, then the NTK. Otherwise it's the 58 or the Beta 58. Find a position and have the singer stay consistent in their distance.

Bass:

Direct. The 32 would work if it's available (I love mine on bass as well). Otherwise the Beta 58 or the D112 if it's available. Resort to a 57 if nothing else works. I wish I had experience with the Neumann or the 44, I'd probably change my preference. Get it as close as you can to where it sounds best.

That's where I'd start at least...
 
int said:
Bass Drum: Either the D112 or the KSM 32 - I like the mix of the 2, but either one is useable on bass drum.

Bass:

Direct. The 32 would work if it's available (I love mine on bass as well).
Click to expand...

Funny, I was going to mention those two as well. I've heard some very good kick drum mic'ed with a 32, and the way it handles bass, overall, is just very impressive. Good, tight bass response on that thing. I take it you agree?
 
Hey, cool-thanks for jumping right in folks.

I was sort of intentionally leaving out the rest of the recording chain, since:
A) Opinions on preamps , recording media and outboard gear is so subjective, and:
B)it's a mic forum, after all.

But since some of you's wanna know:

Yes, there's a mixer, but I wasn't intending it to be a part of the signal chain-it's an old Mackie 1604 (classic, not VLZ). It is, however, going to essentially be a really elaborate headphone amp and sketch pad. LOL

I was going to use it for scratch takes as well, guitars and vox. I was hoping to get bass and drums together through my good stuff, scratch takes w/the Mackie and then use the aux outs for the headphone mixes. It SHOULD work great. We'll see.

I'm using a MOTU 896/Digital Performer 3 into a Mac G4. It's a 500mhz machine, w/a 28 GB HD and something like 786 RAM.

So, while all 8 tracks don't have to be keeper tracks, I DO only have 8 analog ins at a time. The MOTU also has balanced outs for each channel that are not a part of the signal chain inward bound.

Since we have an extraordinarily good live band (to toot our own horn), my desire was to Pod (yuck, but functional) one guitar and put another small amp in a box in the bathroom, run the bass direct, and have our singer just sing into probably the Beta (probably also in the bathroom). Not intending to keep these tracks, but at least to have some energy in the bass/drumtracks.

Here's the preamp/compressor situation:
Vintech Dual 72 (Neve clone Pre's)
Joe Meek VC1Q (pre/comp/EQ)
Focusrite Green 3 Voicebox (pre/comp/EQ)
Joe Meek VC6Q(pre/comp)
FMR Audio RNC (comp)
Ashley CL52E (comp)
Joe Meek C2 (comp)
And of course, in my live rack I also have some other stuff, a Behringer multi-comp and a dreaded 3630-but I wasn't planning on using them at all. I usually just use the Mackie for small club dates and not for recording, but this is the first full band recording I've attempted.

Anyways, I was planning on using most of this stuff again within the recording, just not at the same time. I was planning on doing it like this:

OH's-Rode NT5's (or the Neumann TLM103's-whichever I like best)>Vintech Dual 72>RNC
Snare-'57>Meek VC1Q (self comp and EQ)
Kick-D112 or one of the condensers>Focusrite Green 3 (self comp and EQ)
Bass-(either P-bass or Gibson Thunderbird) direct into Meek VC6Q (self comp and EQ)

One Pod guitar
One tiny little old Silvertone amp 5 watts or so, 8 inch speaker
One scratch vocal (all guitars/vox likely to be ditched).

Yeah, it's a pretty big room-and I've got some neat toys to play with, but a lot of it is borrowed (Vintech, NTK, RNC, C2, etc.) and the downside is that all I have is that ONE big room. It's an old store-front barber shop. It's not so big with me, the computer, the rack stuff, the drums and three other guys in there. It's not cramped or anything, but it couldn't be much smaller and still be comfortable. A control room I do not have, to reference Harvey's Yoda jokes on the big diaphragm/positioning mic thread. (which was wonderful, by the way, thank you so much Harvey.)

I suppose, for those who haven't checked out the website, I should relate the style of music we're dealing with; It's rootsy rock and roll, dueling telecasters, sometimes four part harmony, '71 Stones meets Neil Young meets Springsteen hanging out w/Elvis Costello in 1979 stuff. Or so we wish. Or something like that. stylewise anyway. 2 inch analog and an SSL would be ideal, but you gotta deal with what ya gotta deal with.
So. Decent toys. Ok room. Seems like most of you are thinking what I'm thinking.
by the way, I like the KSM 32 on guitar amps a lot too, particularly crunchy ones.
what I'm most curious to see is whether I like the TLM 103's or the NT5's best as OH's.
Thanks and keep posting,
Chris Meck
 
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