What type of oil for r2r?

T

tryan225

New member
I was just curious what type of oil I should use for my teac 3440 and where I would be most likely to find it locally.

Thanks!
 
I use 80/90 gear oil in ____ oh, this is the wrong forum. Not really sure about your question. Do you have an oil access tube on your deck? From what I understand is that many parts are sealed. I hope others chime in to give the right answer.
 
I've used 3 in 1 on the capstan. Which you can get at any hardware store. That's what was recommended to me. Just don't over do it. What part are you oiling?
 
Turbine oil for any bronze "oilite" type bushings in moderation like SteveM said.

Don't deviate from the lubrication instructions in the manual.

I use Tri-Flo for other stuff like linkage joints and such, or a good moly grease from your local auto parts store is a good thing to have on-hand too.

Yeah...what are you lubricating?
 
SteveM said:
I've used 3 in 1 on the capstan. Which you can get at any hardware store. That's what was recommended to me. Just don't over do it. What part are you oiling?
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I don't think this is a good, long-term choice for capstan motors. Turbine oil (sewing machine oil is an example) is designed to work in high temperature, high speed turbine motors without leaving gummy residue. Ordinary 3-in-1 oil will lubricate for a while, but will tend to leave gummy residue as it breaks down over time.

Cheers,

Otto
 
dodgeaspen said:
I use 80/90 gear oil in ____ oh, this is the wrong forum. Not really sure about your question. Do you have an oil access tube on your deck? From what I understand is that many parts are sealed. I hope others chime in to give the right answer.
Click to expand...

Actually, you're not far off.

I always used synthetic 80W gear oil on decks because it coats better and remains on the parts far longer than 3-in-1. I applied it using an ordinary srynge. This allowed me to be very precise where and how much oil was applied.

Anything that moved, I oiled in this fashion and never had an issue. It's great because it's thinner than grease but sticks really good as compared to 3-in-1.
 
How about 75 W 90 NS Redline gear oil?

Will that do?

Works wonders in Ferrari transmissions!
 
LOL

Probably, I have no idea. The decks I've had over the years had big motors turning big parts and had heavy transports to slide forward and back, so using a serious oil with anti-corrosion properties and such made a lot of sense.

3-in-1 oil is great for sewing machines, but if any of you have a singer, you know that if you're not using the machine daily the oil does drip off while in storage and you have to re-apply otherwise you hear some nasty metal-on-metal sounds. Certainly not something you'd want an expensive deck to have to endure.
 
You mentioned a "singer" at home!

Would Pavarotti be considered the singer in his home?
 
heh, singer as in sewing machine. You can all sew, right? You make your own studio drapes, gobo covers, and seat covers, right?
 
The manual says nothing about oiling, which is what I was going to depend on for instructions. I actually got the tape recorder working pretty much perfectly after replacing the capstan belt and a thorough cleaning of the heads. Output on the 4th channel is a little weaker than the other three, though. What parts should I oil that would be standard maintenance on a 3440?

Also, I was curious about how to bounce tracks on it? I used a tascam 414 about a year ago and bouncing was pretty easy on it, but I'm stumped as far as this thing goes.
 
frederic said:
Actually, you're not far off.

I always used synthetic 80W gear oil on decks because it coats better and remains on the parts far longer than 3-in-1. I applied it using an ordinary srynge. This allowed me to be very precise where and how much oil was applied.

Anything that moved, I oiled in this fashion and never had an issue. It's great because it's thinner than grease but sticks really good as compared to 3-in-1.
Click to expand...

Yes I was just making a joke. But I'm curious, if the thickness of the oil will make the unit work harder. Just wondering.
 
I would think that since synthetic oil coats surfaces differently from natural oils and would not be a detriment as to added resistance.
 
The reason I use turbine oil or zoom spout oil (which is turbine oil in a zoom spout oiler) is that, as I understand it, it is the of the proper refinement and viscosity to recharge the oilite bushings. The oilite bronze bushings are porous and the whole idea is for the bronze to be saturated with the proper lubricant. It takes a long, long time for the oilite to dry or wear when used in the proper application, but the capstan nose bushing in a 40 year old Ampex 440 motor is getting on in years and so I posed the question to the gurus at the Ampex List and the unanimous response was turbine oil.
 
Ok so where does one get this oil?

I was changing my tranny/differential oil next W/E and thought that would be a good time to set some 75W90NS aside.

But if turbine oil is better divulge the source!
 
The short, easy answer for capstan motor oil is to buy a can of sewing machine oil.

The "by the book" answer for an Otari MX-5050 MKIII 8 track like mine, for example, is to get a supply of Anderol 456.

The spec sheet is here:

http://www.anderol.nl/pdf/pds/ANDEROL 456.pdf

Last fall I found a website that specializes in tape gear that carried a small quantity (one-half ounce, IIRC) for a fairly hefty price. A quick Google search will probably locate a couple of vendors that specialize in products for wood stoves that sell this oil in larger quantities at a better price.

Cheers,

Otto
 
dodgeaspen said:
Yes I was just making a joke. But I'm curious, if the thickness of the oil will make the unit work harder. Just wondering.
Click to expand...

I know you were making a joke, but joke or not you landed on the bullseye anyway :)

Yes, the thicker the oil the "more power" is required to start movement as well as maintain it. That's why cars nowadays use 5W30 instead of 10W40 - thinner oil offers less resistance to moving parts so cars of today can get better mileage - less oil resistance.

In the old days thicker oil was necessary to compensate for car maker's inability to mass produce moving parts with any kind of real precision - the former 10W40 compensated for that.

For this very same reason, as your car accumulates mileage you should be changing oil weights. For example, my '93 F350 crewcab requires 5W30, as do most vehicles of that era. At about 250K miles, I changed to 10W40 to compensate for the years of engine wear. When I hit about 400K miles, I switched to 15W40, and have been using that since. I have a little over 500K on it now.

In the worst NJ winters where the temps go below freezing, the truck doesn't start up instantly and has to crank a bit because 15W40 is a fairly thick oil. But if I don't put in 15W40 at this point the truck will smoke a bit when I first start it, for about 30 seconds or so. If I were to put the 5W30 in at this point, it would smoke for about 5-6 minutes then stop. 500K miles of engine wear makes for larger clearances in all the moving parts and that's why I use a thicker oil - to compensate a bit.

Obviously if I keep driving this truck I'll need to rebuild the engine... and we're getting close to that point actually.

Anyway, the same applies to tape deck motors - the thicker the oil the more power is necessary to start movement as well as maintain it - however quality tape deck motors (such as in the higher end decks) you will find either ball bearings or bronze bearings - which allow for easier starting than steel bearings which is what automotive engines have.

Bronze bearings are just a bushing - a round collar - but because Bronze retains oils in it's porous surface the oil itself is the bearing. Thicker oils "stick" better in this case. For ball bearings, the thickness of the oil doens't matter that much as the design of the bearing makes it easier to start off regardless of what oil is used.

In the latter two cases, a thicker oil will be retained by these bearings longer when not in use - so that is why I prefer to use gear oil in professional grade decks - not because it's thicker, but because it clings better.

Consumer cassette decks didn't use oil at all and instead used a lithium grease, which is far thicker than any oil. The little motors in consumer decks could start the mechanism just fine, right? Push play, hear music. They used grease because 99.9% of the consumers aren't going to take their $49.95 cassette deck apart every so often and re-lubricate all the moving parts - they just throw them out every 3-10 years depending on use.

The problem with grease (and deck motors) is not that it's thicker per se, but that it's stickier. Any dust and dirt circulating in the air will circulate through the consumer casette deck as well and some of that will land on the grease, never to be released. That dust and dirt adds friction, and after enough accumulates, the heads and capsan rollers no longer move forward easily, and the deck motors will be slow to start. Eventually, it will gum up and "sieze". Then you toss it.

This is why consumer casette decks didn't really last a long time in the homes of a smoker - the tar and smoke particles got into the grease and formed essentially a glue.

Temperature has a lot to do with oil viscosity, but I didn't go into it since it's unlikely that anyone is going to operate a professional deck outside in the snow.
 
Good points Frederic. Also, I think it's pretty impressive that you've gotten over 500k out of your truck. :cool:
 
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