What to upgrade first to make biggest improvement?

  • Thread starter Thread starter dwkman0117
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The absolute weakest link that I hear has to be the mics. What specific mics are you using? Those cheap Nady dynamics? A pair of condensor mics and a couple of decent dynamic mics would be the first thing I'd go for. Have you seen MsHilarious's omni condensors in the mic thread? They sound pretty good from what I've heard so far and they're cheap!

Do you want more sound card inputs for more control? Anything with four inputs to go along with your mixer should be fine.

Considering what you used, you did a pretty decent job on these recordings. What would you like to improve in your recordings? Do you have any recordings that were done after getting the Pod?

I'm going to do a sound card comparison TODAY. Onboard sound of my Abit motherboard and a M-Audio 1010LT. Maybe that will shed some light on the sound card thing. I'm also going to do a comparison of some low budget mic preamps TODAY and a behringer mixer preamp will be included. I'll post a link here when it's done.
 
TravisinFlorida said:
The absolute weakest link that I hear has to be the mics. What specific mics are you using? Those cheap Nady dynamics? A pair of condensor mics and a couple of decent dynamic mics would be the first thing I'd go for. Have you seen MsHilarious's omni condensors in the mic thread? They sound pretty good from what I've heard so far and they're cheap!

Do you want more sound card inputs for more control? Anything with four inputs to go along with your mixer should be fine.

Considering what you used, you did a pretty decent job on these recordings. What would you like to improve in your recordings? Do you have any recordings that were done after getting the Pod?

I'm going to do a sound card comparison TODAY. Onboard sound of my Abit motherboard and a M-Audio 1010LT. Maybe that will shed some light on the sound card thing. I'm also going to do a comparison of some low budget mic preamps TODAY and a behringer mixer preamp will be included. I'll post a link here when it's done.
Yeah - I got the Nady SP-5 mics for a steal and thought for the money, I would try them - This is when I wasn't sure what I had and what I could do-recording wise. The mics are not meant by any means to record drums. I have to add a great deal of reverb to the drum tracks due to the peaking or overload(I guess) that is caused by the mics. They couldn't handle it even at the lowest gain levels. This is why the music has such a live sound apposed to a studio sound. That is what I am looking for, a studio sound. I started out recording the drums along with current songs, kind of like a Karaoke for the drums.
I just purchased a CAD premium mic set yesterday. I am looking to upgrade my card next month. I hope this will let me record the drums that sound more "real" without the reverb.

Thank you for the kind words regarding the recording - I also feel that I have pretty much gotten the best sound possible out of what I have to work with.
 
I forgot to mention, I will be posting a newly recorded,cover, using the pod within a week or two.
 
dwkman0117 said:
I have a firewire port on my pc, so considering I have the ablility to use either, what what be better PCI or Firewire? I would think PCI. I checked out the M-audio Delta 1010 suggested above and that looks sweet for not alot of $$.
Yes - I do need a pair of good monitors - I am only using the speakers that I got with the PC - grated they are the better ones available, but nothing to mention... that's why I didn't.

Since your next Dell probably won't have PCI slots (and the one after that definitely won't), I would not suggest buying the 1010. PCI is a dead technology. PCI is being phased out in favor of PCI Express, which is not compatible with PCI cards....

I recently sold my Delta 1010LT. I only got about half what I paid for it. I bought it three years ago on a special cross-promotion between my employer and M-Audio for half of the cheapest mail order price at the time. Thus, effectively, in the past three years, it lost 75% of its original value. Expect that trend to continue as PCI becomes more of an exception rather than the rule in the computer industry.

And the 1010 wouldn't be a good choice for someone starting out anyway. It doesn't have any preamps, so you'd still be stuck with the Behringer white noise generators. Worse, a new 1010 costs as much as a used Firepod on eBay, which has everything the 1010 has plus eight mic pres and two instrument pres....

My advice: FireWire cards are cheap, and you'd be much better of buying a FireWire interface with fewer channels now that will actually have resale value in five years when you outgrow it rather than a PCI card that basically won't. Don't spend over about $100 on a PCI card. That way, when you find that you can't use it on your next machine, at least you have limited your loss.
 
Timothy Lawler said:
Scrubs nailed it. The room is everything. My experience has been that cheap gear in a great room sounds better than the opposite.
I second that. That is if your sequencer and DAW works properly. If you have dayly regular crashes and clicks and pops in allmost every recording, the DAW would be at equal priority on the top on my list, together with room treatment.
 
I just upgraded my drum mics. I got the CAD 4 pack. That should start making things better for me!! I will let you know.
 
Sound Card tracking question

OK - so now I am going to upgrade my soundcard.
I was looking at the M-audio Delta 1010LT card - as mentioned above. Here is my question. I need 6 tracks for recording my drums. I use 6 mics for this.
The card would cover 2 of the mics - (2 XLR microphone inputs with pre amps)

This might be a newbie question, but how do I get the other 4 mics as input sources at the same time?
Maybe someone who has this card can give me a yell on this one...

Thanks

------------------
http://www.swtestingsolutions.com/music/music_download_page.htm
 
dwkman0117 said:
I need 6 tracks for recording my drums. I use 6 mics for this.
The card would cover 2 of the mics - (2 XLR microphone inputs with pre amps)

This might be a newbie question, but how do I get the other 4 mics as input sources at the same time?

You'll either need stand-alone preamps or a small mixer with enough preamps for your mics and direct channel outs or insert points to run into the 1010lt. Alternately, you could look into a card with more built-in preamps (like a presonus firepod).
 
Yeah - I see your point.. I have a Behringer Eurotrack UB1202, and I have a Main out, but not sure about anyother outs...
 
You basically need four more preamps, so you can run the channels into some of the line level inputs on the 1010.

You might want to consider getting something that has more preamps built in. The Mackie 400F has four preamps, plus the channels on your mixer would give you the six you need. The Presonus Firepod would also probably suit your needs.
 
now time for a new sound card

OK, So, I have upgraded my monitors to KRK RP-5 Rokit Powered Reference Studio Monitors.
I am now looking at a new card.
Here is my question: I am looking at the M-Audio Delta 1010LT, are the 2 built-in mic preamps useable?
I am thinking that I can also add a mic preamp at a later time with this card to add more mic inputs. Right now I can use the 2 from the card and then run 1 from my mixer and one from my pod. This will give me enough to record my drums.
I also wish this card came with a break out box. Does anyone know of another card in the above price range $200 that has a break out box.

Thanks in advance...
http://www.swtestingsolutions.com/music/music_download_page.htm
 
I know this thread is really old, but for anyone newly reading this and looking for ideas I have a slightly different suggestion.

I've recorded entire cd's (the kind you can buy of local indie artists in the indie section of major music stores) using a soundblaster (16 bit stereo), one radio shack cardoid electret condensor microphone, lots of $4 radio shack cable adapters, and sonar. But then when I did that I was already a pro musician and pro engineer but I just had no cash and was doing somebody a favour for free. The sound quality was fantastic and I had a lot of shocked looks from pro engineers in some local pro studios (many of whom I'd never met before) who were impressed with the tracks and often thought it was done in a pro ANALOG studio. My point is simply that you can do great things with very little hardware if you know what your doing AND you take the time to experiment and get the most out of what you have. My one $25 AA battery powered microphone is incredible sounding to this day (I still pull it out for lead vocals on certain singers compared to the akg tube mic I rent regularly and shure, sennheiser, Apex and AT mics I own). So I think personally that a great sounding mic (even with poor quality construction like my radio shack toy) and a good understanding of setting levels, micing voices and gear properly and mixing properly are all the basics you need to record great. If you have crap sounding mics, that to me is the most obvious thing you can upgrade. The mixer will affect the sound a bit, but not obviously compared to your mics. the soundcard can affect the sound subtly if you're already using it very well, although a better soundcard is more forgiving of your mistakes so could make big improvements to your recordings if you're not a very experienced engineer or haven't just worked out how to get the best sound possible from your existing soundblaster.

I'd go mics first (cheap apex 435s, $55 per mic in canada, 1" LDC cardoid mics that sound great for drums and often really good on vocals with a bit of eq). get a handful of those with phantom power on your mixer, you'll upgrade your sound a lot for cheap (cheaper than sm57s and more of a hifi sound which will help beginners get great mixes with less trouble I think - not necessarily better mics than sm57s, just sort of pre-eqed mics which have their advantages and disadvantages).

Then I'd go with a 1010lt (I just picked up another of these for $120 US brand new old stock private deal, so you can get 'em cheap if you shop around and they sync well with multi 1010cards in your machine for crazy numbers of inputs and they're compatible with not only all pc and mac software but also with protools m-powered!).

Then I'd get a new mixer, one with lots of mic eqs, and personally I'd make it a high quality used mixer rather than a new behringer or yamaha, but that's just personal preference. No matter what, for beginners you can't go wrong with yamaha mixers and other yammie gear, so it's a safe bet at least, used or new.

But first and formost, before spending any more money, I'd try to make a full mixed song using the gear you have that sounds as good as your favorite commercial song. Tune and eq every tone you record to sound as much like the instruments in the commercial track so you improve your final sound and learn in the process. Also level setting and compression are vital to making a great mix. And a note for all beginners, dont' go crazy with reverb or other effects - it muddies your mix. Spend more time getting great levels, less time covering problems with reverb. I haven't listened to your tracks so this isn't directed at you in particular my friend! Just a note for other new users looking to upgrade hardware - always upgrade your ears, experience and knowledge first, then your hardware can be upgraded to match your new skills.

Cheers,
Don
 
dkelley said:
I know this thread is really old, but for anyone newly reading this and looking for ideas I have a slightly different suggestion.

I've recorded entire cd's (the kind you can buy of local indie artists in the indie section of major music stores) using a soundblaster (16 bit stereo), one radio shack cardoid electret condensor microphone, lots of $4 radio shack cable adapters, and sonar. But then when I did that I was already a pro musician and pro engineer but I just had no cash and was doing somebody a favour for free. The sound quality was fantastic and I had a lot of shocked looks from pro engineers in some local pro studios (many of whom I'd never met before) who were impressed with the tracks and often thought it was done in a pro ANALOG studio. My point is simply that you can do great things with very little hardware if you know what your doing AND you take the time to experiment and get the most out of what you have. My one $25 AA battery powered microphone is incredible sounding to this day (I still pull it out for lead vocals on certain singers compared to the akg tube mic I rent regularly and shure, sennheiser, Apex and AT mics I own). So I think personally that a great sounding mic (even with poor quality construction like my radio shack toy) and a good understanding of setting levels, micing voices and gear properly and mixing properly are all the basics you need to record great. If you have crap sounding mics, that to me is the most obvious thing you can upgrade. The mixer will affect the sound a bit, but not obviously compared to your mics. the soundcard can affect the sound subtly if you're already using it very well, although a better soundcard is more forgiving of your mistakes so could make big improvements to your recordings if you're not a very experienced engineer or haven't just worked out how to get the best sound possible from your existing soundblaster.

I'd go mics first (cheap apex 435s, $55 per mic in canada, 1" LDC cardoid mics that sound great for drums and often really good on vocals with a bit of eq). get a handful of those with phantom power on your mixer, you'll upgrade your sound a lot for cheap (cheaper than sm57s and more of a hifi sound which will help beginners get great mixes with less trouble I think - not necessarily better mics than sm57s, just sort of pre-eqed mics which have their advantages and disadvantages).

Then I'd go with a 1010lt (I just picked up another of these for $120 US brand new old stock private deal, so you can get 'em cheap if you shop around and they sync well with multi 1010cards in your machine for crazy numbers of inputs and they're compatible with not only all pc and mac software but also with protools m-powered!).

Then I'd get a new mixer, one with lots of mic eqs, and personally I'd make it a high quality used mixer rather than a new behringer or yamaha, but that's just personal preference. No matter what, for beginners you can't go wrong with yamaha mixers and other yammie gear, so it's a safe bet at least, used or new.

But first and formost, before spending any more money, I'd try to make a full mixed song using the gear you have that sounds as good as your favorite commercial song. Tune and eq every tone you record to sound as much like the instruments in the commercial track so you improve your final sound and learn in the process. Also level setting and compression are vital to making a great mix. And a note for all beginners, dont' go crazy with reverb or other effects - it muddies your mix. Spend more time getting great levels, less time covering problems with reverb. I haven't listened to your tracks so this isn't directed at you in particular my friend! Just a note for other new users looking to upgrade hardware - always upgrade your ears, experience and knowledge first, then your hardware can be upgraded to match your new skills.

Cheers,
Don

Thank you for your thoughts! I do agree with you on your points. I believe I need to improve my acoustics - especially the drums. I guess my main reason to upgrade my card is for the recording of my drums on multi tracks. If you get a min, please listen to my tracks. As I went along, my sound, I believe, has gotten better. Hurt was the last one I recorded and I feel that the sound was the best. I have to work in a room that is used for other things, so I really can't set up sound proofing walls or anything, so I am looking for another solution for my drums. As I ramble.....

Thanks again for your suggestions.

http://www.swtestingsolutions.com/music/music_download_page.htm
 
Just to let you know, the 1010lt preamps are complete crap. I would go as far to say that M-Audio completely wasted their time adding these preamps to the 1010lt. The 1010lt is'nt a bad card for home recording but you should know that you will have to get preamps or a mixer to push your mic signals.
 
TravisinFlorida said:
Just to let you know, the 1010lt preamps are complete crap. I would go as far to say that M-Audio completely wasted their time adding these preamps to the 1010lt. The 1010lt is'nt a bad card for home recording but you should know that you will have to get preamps or a mixer to push your mic signals.

That sucks to hear about the bad preamps!!!
 
dwkman0117 said:
SoundBlaster card
Behringer Eurorack UB1202 Mixer
Line 6 Pod2 – for guitar and bass recording – recent upgrade
Cheap Nady mics – 3(used for vocals and drums)
Acoustic drums
Samick Electric guitar and bass


Dude, you could stand an upgrade in just about every department.

Which one to upgrade first? I dunno'. Flip a coin. Personally, while all of your gear pretty much sucks ... I happen to think that any/all amp modellers should be chucked in to the nearest dumpster, and nothing would make me happier than the day that every single owner of a POD, Genx, V-amp, etc. on the planet does this.

So that would be my first upgrade if it were me. But, again, that's just me.

.
 
Opinions needed on test drum recording

Here is my first attempt at recording my kit with some new equipment.
I added a M-audio delta 1010lt card and a CAD 4-Piece Drum Microphone Pack.

Please take a listen and let me know what I can do to make this sound better.

Here is my setup.

CAD 4-Piece Drum Microphone Pack
each mic is recorded to a seperate track

kick
snare
hi-hat
over head

I added eq to each track and then to all as a group plus a touch of reverb

Let me know what you think

Oh - I also didn't mic the toms yet - I figured once I got the base kit
down, then I could add that.

Thanks

Drums Test

http://www.swtestingsolutions.com/music/music_download_page.htm
 
Sounded like there's too much mids in the mix. The snare sounds cardboxey. You could cut the mids a little bit.

It sounds like an vintage recording to me.
 
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