What to get? Not a sonar quest.

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kgirl72

kgirl72

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Hi guys.

I have been doing shopping on something that I can use in both my laptop and desktop. I was looking at USB, but think I've decided against this.

I am excited about the Echo stuff, but don't know about the Mona/Layla option. I am worried about the pres in the Mona. I like that Layla has midi, but I can get midi other ways already. I have an old Peavey mixer, but it probably sucks.

I was kind of thinking about getting a Mackie 1202VLZ plus the Layla PCI plus the adapter. But, is a Mackie really what I should get, considering I already have a 12-channel mixer? Or should I get a single or dual preamp, and maybe an outboard compressor as well?

Any hints of good ones that won't break me? Or should I just go with the Layla and not grab anything else yet?

Any ideas?

I'm nowhere near actually finding this stuff easy to afford, but my willpower pretty much sucks, and I want to buy!!!!!!! Spending makes me happy!!!!!

Thanks,
Kirstin
 
Oh, and sorry about posting this here, it's just the part of the forum I hang out on more than any others, and I'm used to all of your names. Don't flame me, please. I'm just a simple girl, not trying to be annoying.

Thank you!!! You guys are super-cool
Kirstin
:P
 
I use sonar with an RME multiface. I bought the pci and pcmcia cards. A bit more pricey than the Echo stuff and no preamps. I really like it alot. The echo stuff will likely be fine as well and I choose the RME simply for reasons that may not matter to you (1/2 rack, switchable power for battery op, 96k ADAT).

What mixer do you have? If the pres are decent you may not need anything else. You may go the separate pre route if needed to get some variety of sound. I use a DMP3. Other "budget" to mid priced pre's that tend to be favored are the VTB-1, FMR RNP, Grace, Sytek, Joe Meek.

The FMR RNC is seen as the budget compressor.

You want more detail?
 
Thanks, Adam.

My mixer is a Peavey, and I don't know too much about the differences between manufacturers, but I've heard once on this forum somewhere that Peavey's aren't good for recording, but I don't know.

Do you think this is good enough for preamps? I have never used any compression at all, and this may explain the problems that I have, though I'm sure it stems from improper mic techniques. I will continue to work on this. I have compression plugs, but guess that it's better before the signal hits the system, so you don't peak. Maybe what I'm talking about is a limiter. Honestly, I don't know.

My other option is to skip all this altogether for now, and just try to record the level a little quieter. I'm already spending a hefty amount by buying these Echo cards. Then, later, I could buy again, someday, when I'm in a particularly bad mood, to lift my spirits.

I'll notice a huge difference just with the Layla, wouldn't I, in comparison to my built-in crap cards?

Thanks,
Kirstin
 
Yes, you will see a huge difference from the stock cards. I had a great soundcard in my IBM laptop and while there wasn't much noise, it sounded somewhat dark, though acceptable. My new HP laptop card is TERRIBLE. Lots of noise, including internal computer sounds, like the HD working. :rolleyes:

I would say buy the card and experiment with the PV. I don't know much about them but I would suspect the pre's aren't great. Depending on what you are recording, and how many tracks you need you may get away with something like the DMP3, which is very clean and 2 channels are <$200.

Now layla vs. Mona. Depends on ur needs. 4 i/0 and no midi is kinda limiting for a band situation. I hear the pre's are decent, and likely a step up from the PV. For DI guitars though I hear they aren't great.

A compressor limiter would be good to ensure you don't clip before you go into the computer. I use it mostly on vocals, but light enough not to really impact the sound, just to keep from clipping. Percussion would likely need it too. But, you can get away w/o out as you get to know the equip. I personally try to buy only 1-2 items at a time and get to know them well so I know how they impact the sound.
 
Thanks again.

I will most likely be doing only home stuff, but in the future, who knows. Now, my next issue is that Mona is actually discontinued, but the drivers are still being updated, and they're still offering technical support. It's a bit more than the Layla, probably because of the preamps. As for midi, I have interfaces in both computers already, and don't really work much with it, although it does seem kind of fun. Though I don't see huge uses for it, I still like to mess around with some of the midi functions, but I'm more a simple piano/vocal/string/percussion/bass type girl--and usually my stuff doesn't get much farther than that. I really don't even NEED this stuff, but I hope that the reward will inspire me even further.

Oh, so many choices...the bane of my existence. HATE THAT.


adam, thanks for your replies. What would you do, the Mona, or the Layla? For at home recording, I know that I wont do more than maybe 2 channels at a time, or I might start screwing everything up. I am not in a band anymore at this time, but, when I was, I always hated to listen to those recordings, albeit useful. I could see it if it were MY band, but it never is. And if it's MY music, I could definitely see a need to do that. But, honestly, don't know if I'll ever allow my music to be played live--to worried about rejection, ya know. Big baby that I am.

And, the Mackie, you think that I should throw that option out, since I already have a mixer? Would you say the VTB-1 or any of the other pres are better than the Mackie pres, which I see a lot of ranting and raving about on this forum? Any dual pres that you know of that would be good? I might someday want to mic my piano, although I generally direct record my midi synth. And I would need a dual preamp for this correct? Don't people suggest that you stereo mic a piano?

Lastly, is a compressor and limiter basically the same thing? Which am I describing? Would one of these "budget" compressors have limiting capabilities? Am I making a fool of myself?

Ha ha.

Thanks AGAIN,
Kirstin
 
You aren't making a fool of urself!! :D These are all good questions.

I would stay away from the mona. I personally don't like buying discontinued products. The layla it is then.

For working on ur own stuff and multitracking you may want to invest in 2 decent channels of pre's. On a budget the DMP3 as I mentioned in less than $200. the FMR RNP is $475. Both are 2 channels.

I usually record all my own parts and have used the DMP3 with good results.

The FMR compressor is about $179 and supposedly is the best out there. I use an alesis nanocomp which most people hate. I guess I have bad ears, or don't use it in a way that brings out the offensive qualities ;) A compresser changes the distance between the softest and loudest sounds as well as doing some limited of spikes, though some can still clip. A limiter will not allow peaks to clip when set properly. Not the greatest definition. For more info, this is a decent article. http://www.computermusic.co.uk/tutorial/dynamics/1.asp

Most compressors will help reduce the spikes to prevent peaking on all but the most dynamic sounds. I am no expert on this though. It is one of the tools I need to learn to use more effectively.

Quote:
"but I'm more a simple piano/vocal/string/percussion/bass type girl" -- Yeah, Sounds so simple ;) Sounds interesting. You have anything up on the net?
 
Thank you!

Nothing of my writing, but my voice is on mp3.com--

www.mp3.com/planetbutter

I am not in this band anymore, and I don't think that I sing these songs well, because my voice is different than what they were trying to do. Not to mention that I was only in this band a short while, and the engineers wouldn't EVER let me do a second take, which always pisses me off. I am SUPER critical of my own voice, but super cool with everyone elses.

Anyway, I think the songs are still up there, I particularly like 2 pennies, and not much else up there.

Thanks again. I'm thinking that I don't know with this limiter/compressor thing, but I may just buy the RNC, because, at $868-ish for the Layla combo stuff, why not just charge a little more, no?

Talk at ya later. Thank you so much for your help.
 
PS--I take it back. I hate every one of those songs, and I'm glad I quit.

My face will never see a stage again unless I'm singing something of my own. And I may be too scared for that.

My voice sounds like SHIT on that mp3 crap, as well as the whole cd our band put out.

Oh, the embarrassment.

Thanks anyway!

:)
Kirstin
 
So touchy!

Actually my computer kept losing the connection after 30 seconds into each song. What I heard was cool though. I think ur voice is pretty soulful. Better than most of what I hear from mp3.com and the like.

Yeah, the idea of writing all ur own music is pretty alluring huh? I feel like no matter what band I might play with I will always have to write my own stuff on the side.
 
kgirl72,

I know that you said that you had pretty much ruled out USB, but I would like to pass along that there IS at least ONE happy USB customer out there; yours truly. I use the Event EZBus, and think the world of the thing. Granted, Event's customer support is not quick, and their documentation leaves a bit of a learning curve, but the options the unit offers are much better than most. 2in, 2out simultaneous audio interface (24/96) via USB, 2 mic pre's, a lot of instrument and line inputs, plus a control surface for your software, and a portable digital mixer for any coffeshop-type gigs you might like to do.

I'm biased, but I wanted to pass along the info, in case USB was ruled out just because many folks on this bbs have knocked USB without trying it.

-mg
 
Thanks mgraffeo,

I appreciate that. I really WANTED to get something USB, and the EZbus was something I was definitely looking at. Maybe more than the others.

Alas, though, I just press the "process order" on the other stuff. I know for a fact though that I have hardly seen anything negative on the Echo cards.

I'd like to hear some stuff from the EZbus though. Honestly, I'm actually afraid that I wouldn't even know what I'm listening for. I guess I'm just a snob about wanting something better than what I had. I wish I could somehow have one of everything, or try one of everything. But, I don't know how that could happen.

I'm just sad that I'm broke so bad now, but glad that I didn't wait for 6 months when there would be 500 more choices of stuff to choose from, ya know.

Wish me luck. Last time I tried to put in a sound card, I had to take my computer in as I couldn't get it to turn on again. Seems the problem was only my not getting the motherboard back in correctly.

I hope this stuff all works when I get it. I got--and I don't know what my problem is with spending tons of money--

The VTB-1
The Layla for PCI, plus the PCMCIA adapter for the notebook.
The RNC (which I think may be a combo limiter/compressor, but who cares right now)
The Studio Projects C1 (I have two Shure small condensers, and want to hear this large, inexpensive one. Both of my small condensers cost more than this one.)

And, I think that this is all.

Now, just waiting for that damn credit card bill, and interest fee.

Thanks guys,
Kirstin
 
Thanks mgraffeo,

I appreciate that. I really WANTED to get something USB, and the EZbus was something I was definitely looking at. Maybe more than the others.

Alas, though, I just press the "process order" on the other stuff. I know for a fact though that I have hardly seen anything negative on the Echo cards.

I'd like to hear some stuff from the EZbus though. Honestly, I'm actually afraid that I wouldn't even know what I'm listening for. I guess I'm just a snob about wanting something better than what I had. I wish I could somehow have one of everything, or try one of everything. But, I don't know how that could happen.

I'm just sad that I'm broke so bad now, but glad that I didn't wait for 6 months when there would be 500 more choices of stuff to choose from, ya know.

Wish me luck. Last time I tried to put in a sound card, I had to take my computer in as I couldn't get it to turn on again. Seems the problem was only my not getting the motherboard back in correctly.

I hope this stuff all works when I get it. I got--and I don't know what my problem is with spending tons of money--

The VTB-1
The Layla for PCI, plus the PCMCIA adapter for the notebook.
The RNC (which I think may be a combo limiter/compressor, but who cares right now)
The Studio Projects C1 (I have two Shure small condensers, and want to hear this large, inexpensive one. Both of my small condensers cost more than this one.)

And, I think that this is all.

Now, just waiting for that damn credit card bill, and interest fee.

Thanks guys,
Kirstin
 
wow, that was fast! Good for you for pulling the trigger. You know that the vtb-1 is only 1 channel right? :confused:
 
yeah, by the time I figure out what the hell I am even doing, I will just buy the extra channel.

However, I ordered online, and I got an immediate phone call telling me that SURPRISE, there is a back order on both the VTB and the C1 (both Studio Projects). At first I was all, well, maybe I'll just get something else, but decided to stick with it and wait it out. At least I'll have a little stuff to play with before the rest comes in. And maybe I'll be in a particularly bad mood that day, so it will brighten me up. Yeah.

I know it seems fast, but I've had an open page on the Sweetwater, Musician's Friend and 8th street audio's online shopping cart for days. They were open, but the contents kept changing.

I doubt that the C1 will come in any faster with anyone else, so I just said leave it.

I've been itching to buy stuff for a week at least. And I've definitely been doing some surfing around these boards using the search feature. Very useful. I mean, 3 days ago, there was a quattro in my shopping cart, then an Edirol UA700, then an EZbus, a Motu 828, and I think that ultimately, this will be a good workaround. My main interest was in using something that would work on both. USB in the long run, would have been cheaper, although some say that PCI would have been, but I'd still have had to buy something for my laptop if I want to use it. That IS what I want, to be able to use them both, but maybe be able to use them both in my future computer purchases, as I know there will be. I've already bought 3 in the last 5 years.

No wonder I never feel like I have cool enough clothes.

Thanks again,
kirstin
 
you made some good choices. since you will be recording into a DAW, your mixer would be used just for playing back your audio along with any midi stuff you have before you record the midi stuff into the DAW as audio.

hence,

getting a good pre-amp and using your current mixer is better than getting a new mixer unless you are getting a GREAT mixer which the mackie is not. i have the 1604 vlz pro and it is a good mixer that i have loved using. i just got the RNP about 2 weeks ago. now my analog stuff (guitar, bass) and my sound canvas (roland xv-3080) and drum machine (emu/ensoniq asr-x) will all be routed through the RNP for recording.... but not simultaneously since i only got 1 stereo unit.

i'm getting another RNP next month.

PS. I have a frontier design group wavecenter card with the Tango24 external D/A/D on my desktop, and the Tascam US-428 USB mixer for my laptop. The 428 was made by Frontier Design Group for Tascam.
 
Hey Cross,

Thanks. I've been reading some of your posts lately; did you end up getting that Vxpocket, or did you just go for the Tascam US-428? I looked at those too, as well as the EZbus by Event. Do you like the Tascam? I kind of felt that both the EZbus and the Tascam were more than what I needed because of the mixer, and that I couldn't really understand what all it had, Probably, this means that I won't be using some of its features.

I am 100% positive that I have been extremely indulgent in my purchases. I pretty much never intend to be as involved in this as you guys are...not because of lack of interest, but because of the intimidation factor. And, if I do get any good at this, and confident at all about it, it may be when I'm old and gray before that happens.

But I know it makes me happy to do it...and that is worth a little indulgence.

As for the first part of your post, I am not sure that I understand the signal route you were describing. If I record and do all my midi stuff (none to minimal...if I can do it on the keyboard with manual drums, I often just will do that, or leave them out and go for that singer-songwriter bare-bones thing) on the computer, would I want to run the stuff out of my computer, into my mixer and back into my computer? Or would I just want to mix it all within the sequencing software (Sonar), and then bounce the midi to audio, and then bounce it all to audio tracks, assuming that CD is my destination? Is there a reason to do this, or is it that perhaps some of my signals would be generated outside of the computer, or is it the mouse v. fader deal?

I may just not get it. Not a huge surprise.

Anyway, I hope you see this, if not, thanks all you guys, you were very helpful.

Kirstin
 
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